Car (or bike) Chat!

[Marco]

Lol, Timothy, maybe! However, have you looked into the reasons WHY you can't sleep? And have you done anything about it?

Plus, do you feel tired or lethargic during the day, or have poor concentration levels? Does your lack of sleep affect your appetite? Do you catch more than your fair share of colds, or any other infections, or suffer from other aspects of poor health? Oh, and do you have bags under your eyes or lots of wrinkles?

Of course the amount of sleep needed various from one person to the other. However, what age are you? Unless you're over 70, I'd suggest that 3-4 hours a night is very low, especially 30 years ago when you must've been reasonably young and needed your sleep. I need nine hours per night, minimum, preferably ten, and I've always been the same. Anything less than that, and I can instantly feel the effects. On only 3-4 hours, I'd be like a zombie!!

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Yes, but a) life isn't all about money. If you've been at all successful in your earlier working life, then by the time you reach 81 your focus shouldn't be on *earning* money. It should be on SPENDING and ENJOYING it before it's too late! As you can't take it with you...

And b) as far as having a "sense of purpose" goes, there are many ways of achieving that, other than through work.

It could be using the time during your retirement to be a better parent/husband//grandfather (tick as appropriate), or just simply enjoying the fruits of your labour. For me (your dad aside, as he's obviously happy), that's a big part of the problem we have in this country: for too many people, their work is their LIFE, rather than simply a means to an end.

It's where for me the French (and also Italians) get it right.. You can travel through huge parts of France, through small towns and villages (ditto Italy), and often the shops are closed and places are deserted, as the locals are either on a 2-hour lunch break or having a 'siesta'!

They know when to work and when to chill and enjoy the good things in life (eating good food and spending TIME with their friends and loved ones), and so they're content working just enough to pay the bills and have reasonably comfortable but simple lives, and most importantly don't suffer from stress, as a result (glad your dad doesn't). They're laidback to the point of being horizontal - and good on them! That's more my world

Here in the UK? Well, I don't need to point out how different it is (and getting worse all the time), as we've been here many times before: shops open 24/7, due to the effects of mass consumerism, and one of the worst work/life balances in Europe..... A rat race populated by headless chickens? You can keep it!!

Marco.

Marco, you're such a sweetheart, so before I launch into my reply I should tell you that I'll be smiling as I write this so please don't think I've got a cob on

Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly, so I'll have another go: my dad loves what he does, getting paid for it is just the icing on the cake. How many hobbies do you know that do the opposite of costing you money?

The "rat race populated by headless chickens", that's the world you and I live in, whether we like it or not. I suspect you probably do like it, selectively - you like to do your shopping outside of peak times where you would have to jostle with those dirty plebs (regular folk), but if those stores went down the same road as your beloved French/Italian places you would not have that luxury any more. And that lovely pub you took your dad to for lunch? how pissed off would you be to arrive there only to find they couldn't be arsed opening till sometime later this evening

And would you describe your life as "comfortable but simple"? These folk you speak highly of in continental Europe are not going to afford performance cars, top-drawer audio and a/v systems, and all the Laura Ashly you can fit into a big house on a hill, by doing bugger all business for much of the day. Sorry, but the sums don't add up. Something has to give, maybe that's why so many of their houses look like they're falling down.

You do seem to be trying to teach me something, as though I've been in the land of nod for the last sixty years and have no idea what's going on around me. Perhaps I misunderstand (happens a lot), perhaps you're just bouncing these thought off me for the benefit of onlookers, and that's fine, but personally I don't feel like I need fixing. And if I do, it's probably too late.

Apart from this I agree entirely with what you're saying

[Marco]

Marco, you're such a sweetheart, so before I launch into my reply I should tell you that I'll be smiling as I write this so please don't think I've got a cob on

Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly, so I'll have another go: my dad loves what he does, getting paid for it is just the icing on the cake. How many hobbies do you know that do the opposite of costing you money?

That issue isn't in question, and as I said if your dad's happy, he's happy, and nothing else matters. However, for me (and certainly my dad), working was only ever a means to an end, and so now in his 80s I can assure you that he's much happier and gets much more enjoyment out of spending TIME with me (and Del), going out for nice meals to lovely little pubs, or coming over to ours for the same, than he ever did working.

How much time do your dad and you spend socialising together, outside of a working environment? And does he have any grandchildren? For me, *that* is what retirement and old age is all about: spending more TIME with your family - time you wouldn't have had when you were working. Plus, as both our fathers are in their 80s, every day is a bonus, and I'd want to make as many nice memories of doing FUN things together with my dad, while I had the chance, than regretting not doing so, should he suddenly (and unexpectedly) pass away....

That's just me, though, and also how my dad looks at things. I can assure you, if my mum were still alive, they'd be spending every spare penny they had going on nice holidays around the world and doing other things that they both enjoyed, with no thoughts whatsoever towards working

The "rat race populated by headless chickens", that's the world you and I live in, whether we like it or not. I suspect you probably do like it, selectively - you like to do your shopping outside of peak times where you would have to jostle with those dirty plebs (regular folk)...

Of course that's the world we both live in, but I choose to engage with it as little as possible, through doing some of what you've outlined. I would NEVER be one of said "headless chickens" or "rats" for all the money in the world! As I've said before, as long as I've got enough for my needs, and yes they are relatively simple, in terms of material possessions, compared with the 'aspirations' of many people today, that's fine, as I wouldn't want the stress attached with earning more to get it, or chasing that sort of materialistic lifestyle, as experience tells me that all it does is bring UNHAPPINESS..

Free TIME (being in control of my own destiny) is ultimately more important to me than any amount of money or material possessions. And Del's the same.

...but if those stores went down the same road as your beloved French/Italian places you would not have that luxury any more. And that lovely pub you took your dad to for lunch? how pissed off would you be to arrive there only to find they couldn't be arsed opening till sometime later this evening

You just adjust your lifestyle to suit, and observe the local customs, and I'd do that easily. I've holidayed and stayed in France and Italy for years, so know how it works, and in terms of country pubs or restaurants, I'd always check in advance if they were open before driving out there - we do that all the time!

And would you describe your life as "comfortable but simple"? These folk you speak highly of in continental Europe are not going to afford performance cars, top-drawer audio and a/v systems, and all the Laura Ashly you can fit into a big house on a hill, by doing bugger all business for much of the day. Sorry, but the sums don't add up. Something has to give, maybe that's why so many of their houses look like they're falling down.

Yes, it's both, as we buy quality stuff, which lasts, and unlike others aren't slaves to fashion, so unlike them we're not chopping and changing our furniture or cars every 5 mins, just to 'feel good' or create some kind of 'show off' image. Therefore, our Laura Ashley furnishings will likely accompany us to our graves, as they're built to last and we look after our stuff. That's what I mean by "simple". and yes it's also a comfortable way to live.

In terms of the French or Italian working hours, you have to remember that most folk start work at 7am (to avoid the worst of the day's heat) and work until 12 noon, then have lunch and a 'siesta', and start back at 3pm (again partly to avoid the worst of the heat), then often work on until 7pm, so that's still a 9-hour day - and plenty of time to get their business done, but in a more relaxed. less stressful way. Perfect!

How many folk here in the UK even get a lunch break? It's most likely a case of grab a Pot Noodle at your desk, and like it! That's NO way to live...

My "performance car" is second-hand (10 years old now), and was bought for £16k. I've now owned it for four years. Hardly the behaviour of someone who is frivolous! Most of our money goes on food and drink, as living/eating well is very important to us, *but* value for money is just as important, which is why we do the majority of our shopping in Lidl, not Waitrose!

As for hi-fi, I haven't used my main system for over 2 years, and haven't really missed it, These days, I derive more pleasure from sitting outside with Del in our garden, having BBQs, etc, during the summer months, and spending TIME together as a couple, than dicking around with hi-fi, so if we moved to France or Italy, where the weather was even better and consumerism was (shall we say) 'less well catered for', if it were necessary, I'd happily do without my system, thereby 'simplifying' our life accordingly.

Quite frankly, as long as I had Del, and enough to survive on, and to avoid any form of stress, I'd happily live in a run-down shack in the middle of nowhere!

You do seem to be trying to teach me something, as though I've been in the land of nod for the last sixty years and have no idea what's going on around me. Perhaps I misunderstand (happens a lot), perhaps you're just bouncing these thought off me for the benefit of onlookers, and that's fine, but personally I don't feel like I need fixing. And if I do, it's probably too late.

Not at all. It's simply sometimes a difference of opinion and priorities/outlook on life. I also seek to correct you about any false impressions you have of me or my way of thinking, based on anything I've written. It's so easy to read into the wrong things sometimes, but I always enjoy our chats!

Marco.

[dave2010]

Most of our money goes on food and drink, as living/eating well is very important to us, *but* value for money is just as important, which is why we do the majority of our shopping in Lidl, not Waitrose!

You didn’t discover the bargains in Waitrose - which happen sometimes fairly late in the day, then! Generally agree about Lidl.

As for hi-fi, I haven't used my main system for over 2 years, and haven't really missed it ...

That’s a surprise given the nature of this web site.

[Marco]

You didn’t discover the bargains in Waitrose - which happen sometimes fairly late in the day, then! Generally agree about Lidl.

That’s a surprise given the nature of this web site.

Hi Dave, trouble with Waitrose is that our nearest one is in Chester, 10 miles away, so we only go there now and then

As for the latter, why? AoS isn't just about me - far from it.... Plenty of other folks to chat about hi-fi. Besides, I've still been using my second system and listening to plenty of music!

Marco.

[Frazeur1]

Marco, I am 58, and have had chats with the doc about it all. Problem is, or part of it, is that to just get somewhat stable with it, they have tried a few various sleep meds which I just do not get on well with at all, they really make me a zombie, even at way reduced doses.

Some of it too is just my work, period. I have worked in maintenance type jobs for my entire career, from refineries and chemical plants, electronics manufacturing and pharmaceutical manufacturing. It has always put me in the on-call situation, 24-7, and my mind just doesn’t sit still. I have tried many things, short of quitting! One trades one issue for another.

Strangely, my body and mind in general are so used to it that I seem to mow through it, yet come weekends when things are smooth, it is hard not to just collapse. I rarely get colds or any kind of infection, my appetite is average, as I get older I find I do not eat as much, or require as much. I have to watch my intake anyway, as I am a type2 diabetic, have been for roughly six years now. I am 5’ 7” and weigh right at 158 pounds, walk a lot, and while I am not a gym type person, am in decent shape.

Sure, at times I do feel a bit ragged, but it seems like everyone else around me is similar. I haven’t used an alarm clock in probably 30 years or more, as my body just is so used to getting up at same times every day, which is typically 3am, I am at work no later than 4am, and work about 10-11 hours a day, depending on fires and crisis of the day or week. Generally have weekends off, depending on said fires.

It seems like the work force these days just keep churning away, almost like robots. I am really working to get to retirement in say another year or two at max, regardless of what every one tells me that financially it isn’t good, but hell, if you’re dead, nothing matters either! Plug away at the wheel...

Really, our health care “system” is quite pathetic, they run through patients like cattle, don’t listen, and just want to push the pills. Oh, we have a pill for that....right. Along with the other ten you want me to take. Frustrating. Sorry, not to bitch. Really things can always be worse!

[dave2010]

Hi Dave, trouble with Waitrose is that our nearest one is in Chester, 10 miles away, so we only go there now and then

As for the latter, why? AoS isn't just about me - far from it.... Plenty of other folks to chat about hi-fi. Besides, I've still been using my second system and listening to plenty of music!

Of course, you are right about Waitrose. TBH I was getting confused with Tesco, and there are no Waitrose stores up here in the frozen wastes. In the past we did pick up bargains in Waitrose, sometimes really good ones. Not worth the bother if you have to travel a long way on the off chance of a bargain. Tesco bargains we have had included so many profiteroles for not a lot that we had to resort to having them for breakfast for days in order to get through them all.

[Marco]

Some good posts, guys. Got to go out for a bit, but will reply later. Piggurs, when you get a chance, I'd appreciate your views on my last reply to you. Cheers!

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Timothy,

Thanks for your detailed reply! Judging by what I've just read from you, and also what I've read on the 'Insomniacs Club' thread, the common denominator among the sleep-deprived seems to be shift work... I've done a few 'all nighters' when I had my own business, but I've never worked shifts (or nights), although I can imagine that it must fuck up your 'body clock'

You also work long hours, so between that and the lack of sleep, I'm not surprised that when it comes to the weekend, you just collapse! I hope you can retire, as you're looking to do, in the next couple of years, but you'll probably still find yourself having a similar sleep pattern, as you've not been used to anything else, but hopefully it'll come

I hear you on the problems of the health care system. Fortunately [touch wood] I rarely have to use it, and don't take any pills, but yes there is a tendency just to treat you like cattle and prescribe pills (the side-effects of which are often worse than the condition they were designed to treat!!], rather than *actually* get to the root of the problem, and treat it *at source*. Instead, they simply apply a 'bandage', and hope for the best!

However, at least we have an NHS... I wouldn't like it to be as it is in, say America, where you could drop down dead on the street, and unless you have private medical insurance, they'll just leave you there!

Anyway, as you say, things could still be worse (there are plenty of folks around the world who are), so all you can do is get on with it, but I wish you all the best for an early retirement and perhaps the chance to enjoy your hobbies more, either hi-fi/music-related or otherwise

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Some good posts, guys. Got to go out for a bit, but will reply later. Piggurs, when you get a chance, I'd appreciate your views on my last reply to you. Cheers!

Marco.

Well it was wordy, I'll give you that How many keyboards per year do you wear out?

I broadly agree with everything you're saying, although it does tend to generalise a bit. We all have reasons for doing things the way we do, often things out of our control, and the subtext of what you're saying, which I interpret as 'do things the way I did it or you're life will be screwed up and you may die early' isn't as helpful as you might think

Take your point about the continental way regarding working hours, but I think most folk over here really do prefer a shorter lunch break, so they can get done sooner and go home. And I'm trying to picture you arriving at your job at 7am My new avatar: that would be you at 5am, thinking "I really can't face another day like this"

I too have spent a lot of time holidaying and driving round France over the years (my favourite kind of holiday), but the French way with restaurant opening does my head in, and had to resort to McDonalds on occasion. I suppose it's better in the towns and cities, but we tended to avoid them.

One more thing: get off your lazy arse and get the big stereo fired up!