Car (or bike) Chat!

[Gaz]

Tonight's tip... Don't live in a city!

Marco.

I don't but I work in one

Bristol

[Marco]

Tonight's tip (revisited): don't live or work in a city.

Marco.

[Audio Al]

Anyone like this ?
https://www.google.com/search?q=copp...nly9BWFVUT1TM:

I love it , really cool car

[walpurgis]

Not my sort of motor Al. The Americans take a nice old classic and butcher the hell out of it in the name of customisation.

[Gaz]

I appreciate the work that's gone into it but it's not to my taste

[Gaz]

I don't but I work in one

Bristol

Luckily I don't drive a modern evil polluting diesel, just an 18 year old petrol that struggles to get mid 20s mpg in traffic so I'm still allowed in.

I expect that makes sense to someone

[Audio Al]

Not my sort of motor Al. The Americans take a nice old classic and butcher the hell out of it in the name of customisation.

It was a complete basket case not fit for the scrap yard , A amazing amout of fabrication , new chassis made all new running gear , custom eveything inc paint and interior , air bag suspension , 10" cut out of the front wings and one off copper inner wheel arches , Totaly amazing car , The owner cried when he saw it

[dave2010]

That's why it pays to be 'off grid' (in this case, where possible driving non-electric cars fitted with older technology, the control of which thus isn't as easily manipulated), and we should refuse, as far as possible, to be part of the system, rebel against it, and stay in control of our lives for as long as possible, rather than simply bending over and having our asses fucked, like compliant, subservient sheep!

OK - I'll try again. If you continue to drive petrol or diesel cars you are still "on a grid" - just a different sort of one. It relies on petrol stations, and fleets of fuel tankers driving round to top those up. It also requires import of fuel - usually from overseas, though it may be possible to obtain fuel by fracking - if one is prepared to accept the problems that causes. Currently we have that kind of infrastructure throughout most of the country, though there are parts where it's possible to go perhaps 50 miles without coming across an open petrol station, and sometimes on Sundays it's very difficult to get fuel.

Electric cars are now starting to get a range of 150 miles or more. In fact some petrol cars effectively don't have much more than that. We recently had a visit from friends who turned up in a splendid Morgan car, but it doesn't have a big petrol tank, and has poor fuel consumption. I was surprised when we suggested taking a small detour to get cheaper petrol that this idea was turned down - correctly if one analyses this more carefully. Basically, a car with poor petrol consumption will use more petrol taking a small diversion, and that completely wipes out any benefit (say 10p per litre) of being able to fill up more cheaply.

To put things in a slightly different perspective, heating homes is more damaging than driving regarding the environment. One can quite easily understand this if one's house is heated by oil. My car uses perhaps 1100 litres of fuel per year (20 gallons per 1000 miles - about 90 litres per 1000, for 12000 miles, so 1080 litre - round up to 1100 litres. I suspect that many houses heated by oil use considerably more than this. If the fuel used is gas, then one is less aware of this, and probably pay scant attention to the bills. Of course, heating houses by electricity is very expensive - and really not a good comparison - it really shouldn't be an option, unless there is really no alternative, though note that it does depend on how the electricity is generated. Some forms of electricity generation are less bad than others.

I understand the issues re range - for pure electric cars - but I've already pointed out that this can be a problem even for a vehicle running on liquid fuel.
Plug in hybrid cars overcome some of the problems, as they can run on liquid fuel as well as electricity. The downside of these is that they are more complex than pure electric cars. Having to carry around a petrol or diesel engine as well as a battery pack increases the weight considerably, and does reduce overall efficiency.

The point about high voltages inside electric cars is significant, but many things we have in modern lives seem potentially very dangerous, but due to (generally) good engineering, we manage to cope.

Petrol head enthusiasts may laugh at electric cars, but some of the fastest cars are in fact powered by electric motors - though it's possible that they'll use a lot more energy if driven hard.

So at the end of all this, what's really the problem? It'll take time to get a majority of cars being hybrids or pure electric, but it should happen, and while it won't "save the planet", it will reduce the rate at which driving damages the environment.

We don't have to measure our own worth by how much we decide to screw up the environment in a pointless and macho way.

[Beobloke]

Stupid idea. Modern diesel cars are pretty clean and comparatively harmless. Unlike aircraft, ships, farm and commercial plant, etc.

I can’t vouch for the farm and commercial plant, but I’m pretty sure aircraft and ships aren’t allowed into Bristol City Centre either...

[Ali Tait]

OK - I'll try again. If you continue to drive petrol or diesel cars you are still "on a grid" - just a different sort of one. It relies on petrol stations, and fleets of fuel tankers driving round to top those up. It also requires import of fuel - usually from overseas, though it may be possible to obtain fuel by fracking - if one is prepared to accept the problems that causes. Currently we have that kind of infrastructure throughout most of the country, though there are parts where it's possible to go perhaps 50 miles without coming across an open petrol station, and sometimes on Sundays it's very difficult to get fuel.

Electric cars are now starting to get a range of 150 miles or more. In fact some petrol cars effectively don't have much more than that. We recently had a visit from friends who turned up in a splendid Morgan car, but it doesn't have a big petrol tank, and has poor fuel consumption. I was surprised when we suggested taking a small detour to get cheaper petrol that this idea was turned down - correctly if one analyses this more carefully. Basically, a car with poor petrol consumption will use more petrol taking a small diversion, and that completely wipes out any benefit (say 10p per litre) of being able to fill up more cheaply.

To put things in a slightly different perspective, heating homes is more damaging than driving regarding the environment. One can quite easily understand this if one's house is heated by oil. My car uses perhaps 1100 litres of fuel per year (20 gallons per 1000 miles - about 90 litres per 1000, for 12000 miles, so 1080 litre - round up to 1100 litres. I suspect that many houses heated by oil use considerably more than this. If the fuel used is gas, then one is less aware of this, and probably pay scant attention to the bills. Of course, heating houses by electricity is very expensive - and really not a good comparison - it really shouldn't be an option, unless there is really no alternative, though note that it does depend on how the electricity is generated. Some forms of electricity generation are less bad than others.

I understand the issues re range - for pure electric cars - but I've already pointed out that this can be a problem even for a vehicle running on liquid fuel.
Plug in hybrid cars overcome some of the problems, as they can run on liquid fuel as well as electricity. The downside of these is that they are more complex than pure electric cars. Having to carry around a petrol or diesel engine as well as a battery pack increases the weight considerably, and does reduce overall efficiency.

The point about high voltages inside electric cars is significant, but many things we have in modern lives seem potentially very dangerous, but due to (generally) good engineering, we manage to cope.

Petrol head enthusiasts may laugh at electric cars, but some of the fastest cars are in fact powered by electric motors - though it's possible that they'll use a lot more energy if driven hard.

So at the end of all this, what's really the problem? It'll take time to get a majority of cars being hybrids or pure electric, but it should happen, and while it won't "save the planet", it will reduce the rate at which driving damages the environment.

We don't have to measure our own worth by how much we decide to screw up the environment in a pointless and macho way.

Some good points, but assuming everyone switches to electric cars, where is the power going to come from?