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Thread: Car (or bike) Chat!

  1. #3451
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

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    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    I have an almost new Tesla Model 3 long range AWD, with under 2000 miles on the clock. I am gradually coming to dislike this more and more. It has some really good features, but also quite a few problems which either seem insuperable, or unlikely to be corrected in the near future.

    I am seriously considering reverting to petrol or hybrid cars for this level of comfort and performance. i see little point in continuing to pretend that I enjoy driving the car, when quite often I don't. The sad thing is that passengers like it a lot, so I'd probably have to buy something more expensive for comfort, but hopefully with much improved driving features. Ah well, it's only a car .....
    What is it you don't like?
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  2. #3452
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Moved to frozen north, beyond Inverness

    Posts: 2,602
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    What is it you don't like?
    A few things:

    Getting in/out is difficult. There is a supposed Easy Entry mode - but actually for me I think it may be harder than just leaving the seats as they are.

    A few things are very much driving related:

    1. The indicators don't cancel "properly". This is erratic - and I'm fed up with notes on forums suggesting drivers need to change their behaviour, or learn new skills, or tap the indicator stalks gently. The fact is that in my car, and it would appear in others too, doing a turn and indicating can be a total pain trying to get the indicators to cancel. If you ever follow a Tesla and you notice that the indicators are going alternately left and right it's probably because the driver is trying to fix this issue - and just wants to cancel the indicator.

    2. The windscreen wipers - a. in heavy rain they're not fast enough b. auto mode doesn't always work c. using the screen can be used to speed the wipers up, but only really works if there's a co-pilot (passenger) to set the screen - otherwise it's dangerous. I know that windscreen wiper timing can be a bit hit and miss, but most cars do better than this nowadays. Actually having a lever or knob with several positions is better than just one push button at the end of a stalk for manual operation, given that the auto operation doesn't work well enough. I don't think the cars have been user tested in places where there is a lot of rain.

    3. There is no rear screen windscreen wiper. I know this is a "feature" of many cars, but it is actually not helpful.

    Range - my model ought to be able to go a long way, but realistically it can only do 200 mile hops at a time. My own estimation, based on recent journeys, is that it should be able to do 240 miles - just. Admittedly my "tests" are based on journeys over quite severe terrain - with a loaded car (2 passengers + luggage) going over 3 of the highest passes in the UK, and with rain and other issues requiring wipers and heating/AC to be turned on. I think many petrol or diesel cars could do significantly greater distances before any danger of running out of fuel. People who only drive on fairly good roads which are fairly flat should be able to go considerably further.

    By careful planning it is possible to reduce or minimise the range "issues", but that almost certainly does require the use of high speed charging points, which Tesla are gradually deploying (redeploying) round the UK. Many of the other chargers are less good for various reasons, and thus not really helpful for people who want to travel long distances. Many chargers have three (3) cables - typically one AC output (slow - but faster than home charging) and two DC outputs (Chademo and CCS). Usually - in my experience - it is not possible to have two cars charging from the DC source, so if a Leaf driver (Chademo) is occupying a bay, then it's not possible to use the DC CCS cable. The charging times are very significantly different for the different modes, though sometimes one might be happy with a slow charge - for example charging while going to a football match. Typically it is considered bad practice to leave a car in a charging bay if it is not charging (and sometimes there are real financial penalties for doing so), so if you want to go away for longer than (say) an hour, then that can be done by deliberately using the slower charging cables.

    Some Tesla drivers have opted for the base model 3 - but that only has about 2/3 the specified range of the long distance versions - which I would suggest in practice is going to be about 160 miles. That's less of a problem if very fast charging stations are available, but that's not the case in much of the UK.

    4. If fully charged, the regenerative braking doesn't work.This is a feature of all EVs, and it is surprising what a difference this makes. Normally it's not a problem, as most drivers won't charge up to near 100%, but if one is going on a long trip that is exactly what one would do, and it's also quite likely that the car will be more loaded up. Thus for the first 30 or so miles braking will be reduced. Ideally this should be avoided.

    5. Cruise control. This is something I've not fully mastered, but it's associated with a lever which in some other cars might be associated with a right turn indication. Unlike other cruise controls I've used, it seems to remember the max speed , so even in a 20mph zone, inadvertently pressing the lever might cause the car to shoot forward in an attempt to go up to 60 or 70 mph. Most other cruise controls don't work at lower speeds, which would avoid that issue. Allegedly it will work even on motorways and follow other vehicles reducing speed to leave a suitable gap. So far I've not risked testing that. It is supposed to prevent collisions by taking avoiding action, but it's not something I can safely test, and indeed it looks as though in the limit Tesla put the responsibility and liability back on the driver.

    I have also not found the Tesla company to be very helpful - with only really one person who put himself out more than the others. The company seems to think it has cars which are so good that users will put themselves out to get them, rather than offering a comprehensive service deal. Other manufacturers already have a service network which works over most of the UK. I might have to travel nearly 200 miles to get something fixed - though I believe there are mobile units for service.

    What do I like? Actually the regenerative braking mode is generally very good, and the car can be driven mostly with only the accelerator pedal. I don't quite know how other drivers behind react, but the brake lights do come on if the accelerator pedal is released slightly. This was something I wasn't sure about until recently. So my concern that maybe other drivers wouldn't know if the car was braking in any way are not founded, but now I wonder if in fact the perception is that the car - if driven "manually" - is nearly always braking.

    Overall there are a mixture of good and bad features about the car. There is a lot that is good, but the indicator and the wiper issues are killer issues for me. There is also a possible problem with the headlight controls. The things that bother me most are the ones which really interfere with my ability to drive safely. The lack of gears is a dream - as it is with most automatic cars - and the way the car accelerates/decelerates so easily is brilliant.
    Dave

  3. #3453
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    interesting Dave.. my hybrid does have many of the adaptions on yours, although work in a different way, often, and seem to be mostly well designed(or at least better) the fancy cruise control on mine is supposed to be used only on motorways, although i do use it on normal rds. you just have to be more aware of its limitations etc. accellerating on a slight bend or roundabouts can happen if its following a car and doing less than set speed etc. so really use it in straighter rds and in areas where i want to keep under a limit. mine wont work under 28mph
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
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    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  4. #3454
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Moved to frozen north, beyond Inverness

    Posts: 2,602
    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    interesting Dave.. my hybrid does have many of the adaptions on yours, although work in a different way, often, and seem to be mostly well designed(or at least better) the fancy cruise control on mine is supposed to be used only on motorways, although i do use it on normal rds. you just have to be more aware of its limitations etc. accellerating on a slight bend or roundabouts can happen if its following a car and doing less than set speed etc. so really use it in straighter rds and in areas where i want to keep under a limit. mine wont work under 28mph
    Grant - I think yours would be very like the one in my now dead and gone Prius. That was easy to use, with an engage position, then push up to speed up, and push down to slow up, and also a disengage action. One thing it didn't do which I think in theory the Tesla should do is to follow behind other vehicles, and slow up appropriately, leaving a suitable gap, so I didn't usually use the cruise control in heavy traffic, but it was good on fairly clear roads. As I recall it didn't always stay under the speed limit, but it gave a reasonably good shot at it. Downhill dips often fooled it, just as they do for human drivers. I'd obviously forgotten that Toyota is cautious enough to suggest only using cruise control on motorways. I used it on regular roads sometimes, and if I wanted to get somewhere fast I sometimes set it running, with my foot and hands ready to disengage it if necessary. I felt that sometimes, within its operating range, it could maintain a more constant speed than I could.

    Teslas also detect the local speed limit - but they're not alone in the way they do that. It seems to be by optical/computer means. As far as I could tell, the Prius did it by sat nav, which was usually pretty accurate. Optical speed limit detection quite often gets fooled, and in the Zoe we have, it picked up a 100 mph sign from a sign just off the road in a nearby town, which was probably relating to a weight - maybe 100kg. If the Tesla had seen that and similarly misinterpreted it, it might have lunged forward very rapidly.

    Optical speed limit detection is often not clever enough to distinguish between speed limits which only apply to lorries - such as on the A9, so the car thinks the limit is 50 mph when in fact it is 60 mph. Similarly while entering a 30 mph zone, the warning signs hundreds of yards before the limit get interpreted as immediate limit signs, and that can be a nuisance too.

    One last thing - why is it that some modern cars seem to give the spoken sat nav instructions in feet, rather than yards? I can't say I like this. There ought to be the option to switch between feet and yards for those of us who are still driving in areas with distances measured in miles rather than kilometres.
    Dave

  5. #3455
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post


    One last thing - why is it that some modern cars seem to give the spoken sat nav instructions in feet, rather than yards? I can't say I like this. There ought to be the option to switch between feet and yards for those of us who are still driving in areas with distances measured in miles rather than kilometres.
    Youngsters I know understand feet but anything more archaic like yards and they are clueless so maybe that's why? When talking with anyone under thirty I like to quote distances in chains.

    You can always just dived the number of feet by 3 to get yards, not a massive imposition.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #3456
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    It's probably because SatNavs are geared for the US market.

    I covered a few furlongs walking the dog earlier, not as much as a league though .
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  7. #3457
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

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    How many rods is that Geoff?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #3458
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    How many rods is that Geoff?
    Over a thousand, a few hundred chains at least.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  9. #3459
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    I've actually used a surveying chain. They're handy for getting approximate measurements over rough or overgrown land.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  10. #3460
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave2010 View Post
    Grant - I think yours would be very like the one in my now dead and gone Prius. That was easy to use, with an engage position, then push up to speed up, and push down to slow up, and also a disengage action. One thing it didn't do which I think in theory the Tesla should do is to follow behind other vehicles, and slow up appropriately, leaving a suitable gap, so I didn't usually use the cruise control in heavy traffic, but it was good on fairly clear roads. As I recall it didn't always stay under the speed limit, but it gave a reasonably good shot at it. Downhill dips often fooled it, just as they do for human drivers. I'd obviously forgotten that Toyota is cautious enough to suggest only using cruise control on motorways. I used it on regular roads sometimes, and if I wanted to get somewhere fast I sometimes set it running, with my foot and hands ready to disengage it if necessary. I felt that sometimes, within its operating range, it could maintain a more constant speed than I could.

    Teslas also detect the local speed limit - but they're not alone in the way they do that. It seems to be by optical/computer means. As far as I could tell, the Prius did it by sat nav, which was usually pretty accurate. Optical speed limit detection quite often gets fooled, and in the Zoe we have, it picked up a 100 mph sign from a sign just off the road in a nearby town, which was probably relating to a weight - maybe 100kg. If the Tesla had seen that and similarly misinterpreted it, it might have lunged forward very rapidly.

    Optical speed limit detection is often not clever enough to distinguish between speed limits which only apply to lorries - such as on the A9, so the car thinks the limit is 50 mph when in fact it is 60 mph. Similarly while entering a 30 mph zone, the warning signs hundreds of yards before the limit get interpreted as immediate limit signs, and that can be a nuisance too.

    One last thing - why is it that some modern cars seem to give the spoken sat nav instructions in feet, rather than yards? I can't say I like this. There ought to be the option to switch between feet and yards for those of us who are still driving in areas with distances measured in miles rather than kilometres.
    yes it has a camera that picks up sign posts. if sat nav is running does it more accurately as the optical can miss a sign or pick up the wrong one occasionally.
    As for the adaptive cruise, yes it will speed up and slow down to car in front. if it has to go to stop, it cancels. It is very accurate although im always covering pedals. its handy to get a steady 60 say.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

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