Listening to music Vs feeling the music.

[kalozois100]

Hi all,
Risking being considered a total nutter i have opened this thread. Why? Well i have always been interested in music in two ways:- 1. how the music sounds in terms of clarity, detail and generally all that is audioable to the ear. and, 2. how the music/system feels to the listener in that area of non audioable parts perhaps what causes the listener to experience that emotional aspect of the music.
you see folks i grew up with a deaf brother. he has zero hearing capabilities. yet he enjoyed and still does sound waves. for example he would often go with us to music concerts and the cinema. when i asked him why the music concerts he said apart from the great lighting and dancers on stage he liked the feeling of the music. At home he could identify certain types of music from the feeling rather than hearing like the rest of us. however the sound level needed to be at least at 12 o clock for him to be able to do this.
In present day when he comes round to visit he often asks me to put some music on loud. I even ask his opinion on new upgrades and if i'm lucky he will comment that the music feels really good. For example he really likes the new mark grant interconnects i recently bought. In his own home he has a av home theater and even when he is alone and his children that can hear are not there he pumps up that volume switch with a grin on his face. When i ask him why he puts audio on whilst watching a dvd he says the film is more real. perhaps he is tuning into certain frequencies that we unconsciously do and enjoys that part of the music? he is particularly sensitive to bass and sud woofer frequencies describing tight bass as clear and muddled bass as cloudy. He is obviously tuning into some parts of music but i can't explain it scientifically. If i'm not nuts forwarding this thread then what implications does it have for us hearing persons when it comes to the quality of emotional response of listening to music?? if this is so, that the music has to be loud enough to get that feeling out of it aswell as what you can audiably hear, then is it possible to have this effect with headphones aswell as lounge speakers.?
Perhaps the scientists amongst us members can explain if within the realms of physics part of music there really is a place for feeling music aswell as listening to it. Is this the part where really great ( not necesarrily expensive) audio systems stand out from the rest in their ability to move you emotionally as well as offer clear detailed audioable sound ??
I remember the very first time i heard cds and compared to vinyls they not only did not sound right but did not feel right either.........
Please feel free to discuss and comment on the above.. I await some interesting feedback from others.

[The Grand Wazoo]

This, I find absolutely fascinating, yet somehow, I'm not at all surprised.
There's so much we don't know about ourselves & the way we work. Maybe music therapy has more possible applications?

You say you'd like to know the effect of headphones & the difference between digital & analogue - well why don't you ask your brother?
I'd love to hear what he thinks..........

[DSJR]

I'm going to drop myself in hugely deep doo-doo here, but the reason why vinyl makes the earth move for you guys is the horrendous distortion this medium introduces into the bass region - more often than not. It's easily measurable too, so not just an opinion.

When I used to visit shows, my colleque and I used to guess what room was playing LP's from the corridor outside. We got it right every time because the rooms playing LP's had this squidgy bass droning noise coming out of them...... Like it or not, CD has the potential to sound closer to the original recording and often does - been there, done that! Whether you like the "truth" or not is entirely up to you .

I caused no end of hearing damage to myself by listening to headphones too loudly. I do agree that speakers allow the body to "feel" the music better and the bigger the speaker the better (and if they're good, the better CD reproduction usually becomes).....

You know, I don't care what format my music is played on. if the music is good enough, it transcends the medium and one "feels" with the emotions, not the body.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'm going to drop myself in hugely deep doo-doo here, but the reason why vinyl makes the earth move for you guys is the horrendous distortion this medium introduces into the bass region - more often than not. It's easily measurable too, so not just an opinion.

When I used to visit shows, my colleque and I used to guess what room was playing LP's from the corridor outside. We got it right every time because the rooms playing LP's had this squidgy bass droning noise coming out of them...... Like it or not, CD has the potential to sound closer to the original recording and often does - been there, done that! Whether you like the "truth" or not is entirely up to you .

I caused no end of hearing damage to myself by listening to headphones too loudly. I do agree that speakers allow the body to "feel" the music better and the bigger the speaker the better (and if they're good, the better CD reproduction usually becomes).....

You know, I don't care what format my music is played on. if the music is good enough, it transcends the medium and one "feels" with the emotions, not the body.

Dave, your last comment, I agree with wholeheartedly, but I can't let the rest of it go (not that it's particularly pertinent to the original post, which doesn't deserve to be hijacked).

Firstly, there's more to music than bass - if you don't like analogue bass, then can you bear to hear anything live, other than an acoustic bass?

I don't know when you did your show visiting, but I have memories of CD systems at shows proudly displaying harsh, scalping top end & barely any bass to speak of - I'm sure that was measurable too.

What you describe as 'the truth' is merely a portion of the truth - they chucked most of it away - including some of the bass. So which is the more truthful - the one that contains something extra, or the one that contains much, much less?

I wouldn't dare presume to know what you hear, but you seem intent on doing just that to others. No-one mentioned truth - the posting is about a deaf guy who finds pleasure from music, something we should all be celebrating.

[kalozois100]

This, I find absolutely fascinating, yet somehow, I'm not at all surprised.
There's so much we don't know about ourselves & the way we work. Maybe music therapy has more possible applications?

You say you'd like to know the effect of headphones & the difference between digital & analogue - well why don't you ask your brother?
I'd love to hear what he thinks..........

Hi there Chris,
Thanks for the reply. My brother using headphones is a no goer since he has no hearing in either ear. What I tried to communiate is that using lounge speakers he is able to "read " the music in a six sense kind of way .e.g. He will often associate an emotion with the type of music played i.e. he describes heavy metal as angry, balads as peacefull, pop as happy, jazz as lively, rap as forcefull, classical as sad. is this how the musician feels whilst playing the instruments as the music is being recorded? Who knows. I too find this facinating. I think that the speakers push air in the room and it arrives to bodies in two forms the audioable and the emotional. We all know the speakers produce movements in furniture eg when we touch the sofa we can feel the music. This must occur in bio masses too.
My brother has always prefered analogue over digital. He describes emotionally (and not audioally) that analogue feels like a sunny clear day whereas digital is like a hazy day. However this is an unfair comparison as i do not have either top end analogue or digital sources.

[kalozois100]

I'm going to drop myself in hugely deep doo-doo here, but the reason why vinyl makes the earth move for you guys is the horrendous distortion this medium introduces into the bass region - more often than not. It's easily measurable too, so not just an opinion.

When I used to visit shows, my colleque and I used to guess what room was playing LP's from the corridor outside. We got it right every time because the rooms playing LP's had this squidgy bass droning noise coming out of them...... Like it or not, CD has the potential to sound closer to the original recording and often does - been there, done that! Whether you like the "truth" or not is entirely up to you .

I caused no end of hearing damage to myself by listening to headphones too loudly. I do agree that speakers allow the body to "feel" the music better and the bigger the speaker the better (and if they're good, the better CD reproduction usually becomes).....

You know, I don't care what format my music is played on. if the music is good enough, it transcends the medium and one "feels" with the emotions, not the body.

Thankyou Dave for your interesting comments. I too am concerned about hearing damage and since I can't resist switching the volume way high on headphones i tend not to use them.
My comments about cd sounding not as good or feeling as good as analogue was back in the late eighties when i first heard cds played. 20 years on and digital medium is a whole different kettle of fish! I am amazed how great digital audio sounds. I personally don't get caught up in which source is better. On the german autobahn i would use a bmw 750 but off road i would use a rangerover. i have material on vinyl and on cd/pc. I use both mediums to listen to music i like wether it is on vinyl or cd/pc.

[John]

For me there has always been a emotional connection to music but I also enjoy the physical connection too For me music is more than just pure sound
I know a person who is deaf and just by slightly moving a CDclose to her ear she can tell which album it is

[DSJR]

Hey, no high horses here man

Am I "doing an Ashley" and insisting that everyone should hear things the way I do? Not my intention I assure you all, but forty years of this audio obsession, coupled with many hours listening to good master tapes at work and at home via a Hi speed IEC Revox B77 has perhaps opened my eyes to some "truths" that people not in the industry haven't yet heard. Apologies. A bit like ex-smokers getting all high and mighty with those that still smoke...

The OP asked for feedback and I agree it's great if the blind chap can still appreciate music by vibrations, or whichever way he "feels" it.

Lastly, regarding HiFi "Truth" where LP reproduction is concerned. If the LP has less, is it the job for the turntable system to add "more" to make it palatable? A subject for another thread methinks if not here...

Dave, your last comment, I agree with wholeheartedly, but I can't let the rest of it go (not that it's particularly pertinent to the original post, which doesn't deserve to be hijacked).

Firstly, there's more to music than bass - if you don't like analogue bass, then can you bear to hear anything live, other than an acoustic bass?

I don't know when you did your show visiting, but I have memories of CD systems at shows proudly displaying harsh, scalping top end & barely any bass to speak of - I'm sure that was measurable too.

What you describe as 'the truth' is merely a portion of the truth - they chucked most of it away - including some of the bass. So which is the more truthful - the one that contains something extra, or the one that contains much, much less?

I wouldn't dare presume to know what you hear, but you seem intent on doing just that to others. No-one mentioned truth - the posting is about a deaf guy who finds pleasure from music, something we should all be celebrating.

[DaveK]

Hi Guys ,
I find this thread fascinating also but perhaps for different reasons to the rest of the contribitors. (or perhaps not ??) My hearing is about normal for a 69 year old that has spent all his working life in the heavy (noisy) steel industry, that is, typical industrial related hearing loss (of the highest and lowest frequencies), but mid ranges OK. I posted on another thread that I listened to track 2 of 'Far Away Trains Passing By' by Ulrich Schnauss for the first time the other day and mentioned that, on some of the lower bass notes (on this track mainly but also others), I not only heard the bass but also felt it in my solar plexus area. This did not strike me as unusual at the time because, in my earlier days, I always steered clear of loud music sources because the bass sounds (particularly) were 'too much' for me - made me quite unpopular with my mates, at times !!
Question: -
Is this 'feeling' of bass notes by body parts other than ears shared by everyone or am I somewhat unusual - polite answers would be preferred please !!

[DSJR]

Music as heard live or well recorded via a sound system should cause one to physically "feel" the notes IMO, as opposed to headphones, where only the ears get the full assault. The result is that idiots like me used to turn the volume up on 'phones in an attempt to correct for this.....

One problem we humans apparently have is that our eyesight accounts for around 75% of our processing power and if there's a picture to watch as well as the music, the picture takes over - one reason why we put up with lousy sounding TV sets or the average nasty AV system. Turn the picture off and many of these setups perform dismally.