LP sound from CDs

[high.spirits]

Hi

My current system is Thorens TD160 Super, SME Series 3 arm with Ortofon VMS30 Mk11, Arcam FMJ A19 and PMC DB1i in a small room, which sound really good - detail, staging etc.

When I play CDs on my old Pioneer PDR 509, they are very bright and thin sounding - awful.
A friend lent me an Music Fidelity V- DAC11 which has improved things a lot. However it still is not as good as my LPs.

I have had one suggestion - try using a Jolida valve DAC.

Any other suggestions on how to get a similar LP sound from CDs?

Thanks
Martin

[jandl100]

I know 3 folks whose ears I trust that rate the valved Jolida DAC very highly.

Personally, I'd recommend a Beresford Bushmaster DAC as well.

[Reffc]

Depends what you want from CD, specifically. What is "LP sound"? There are so many variables involved it's impossible to answer that one precisely but using a good off-board DAC is a good start as its likely that the Pioneer can be bettered by quite a margin.

The other thing is to pick your CD recordings carefully. There are some labels such as OPUS3 who pride themselves on the analogue stages of recording (digitally mastered) and they give true Red Book (or better) wide dynamic range so never sound that compressed. Its a bit of a lottery with digital recordings tbh.

I always seem to revert to vinyl after perhaps a few months going through CDs. It satisfies in a way CD never seems able to providing you have a decent front end and good recordings.

No need to spend the earth. If it's "warmth" you want, the easy on the ear sound you're after is just a matter of trying a few more DACs/CDPs until you settle on something that works for you.

[Macca]

No need to spend the earth. If it's "warmth" you want, the easy on the ear sound you're after is just a matter of trying a few more DACs/CDPs until you settle on something that works for you.

Would be my advice too. They are all voiced differently, remarkably so sometimes. Price is no arbiter, it's a just a question of mixing and matching.

[DSJR]

Sorry to poor cold dishwater over this and I'm really not trying in the slighted to be patronising here BUT - you're using a plump-bassed VMS30 (I have one and have used it recently) in a rather soft toned arm (the SME III was totally opposite sonically to the 'Improved' series 2 that preceeded it - why do you think so many are being stripped out for spares?) on a deck that hints at greatness but never really gets there! I do know the deck you have and set up many many of them in my time and although the 'Super' was a subtle improvement on the base TD160 II, the mat change probably accounted for most of what you hear as a 'difference' and not the structural changes IME.

Apologies for appearing to diss your turntable system, but there's absolutely NO WAY you're going to get a neutral digital source to sound the same as it without loads of artificial software processing! It's the deck that's balancing a speaker-room situation I believe and the object should be to mellow the sound from the speakers out a bit, not slug the digits to match the turntable...

My advice is to use CD's for now and play around with speaker positioning, as well as absolute phase to get the DIGITS right, and then set about updating your vinyl system into something a little less coloured and turgid sounding. I know the truth can hurt, but I very much doubt I'm wrong in this particular instance, turntable wise at least.

Apologies again...

[Audioman]

Martin.

The problem is getting a Thorens deck to have the precision and dynamics of CD as much as a better CD player. I bought the Gyro because at the time was the only deck I heard that combined the attributes of CD with the better resolution and musicality of vinyl. In comparison to modern designs the Thorens/SME III tends to be relatively warm and muddy though pleasing to listen to (I used to own a 160s).

I don't think adding valves is necessarily the answer to improved CD reproduction. There are plenty quality used CD players on the market that should improve matters such as TEAC VRDS or Sony. CD will always sound relatively flat but frankly the mastering of the CD will make the biggest difference. It is surprising how good a well mastered 16/44 source can sound. Unfortunately mastering quality on most CDs is poor and doesn't produce sound that approaches the format's potential.

My recommendation would be to improve both front ends if you want SQ to converge. Sounds like you have vinyl and CD at both extremes of desirability. Muddy v thin/bright.

Paul.

[jandl100]

If I had the guess the poster, it would have been DSJR.
Bless.

[high.spirits]

Thanks for feedback.
I must admit the Thorens / SME / VMS30 is long in the tooth but I like the sound it produces and it is very easy on the ear all day long.

Time for a rethink. However budget constraints will mean no great spend on both front ends.

[jandl100]

Martin, if you like what your vinyl front end does don't let self-appointed "experts" put you off it!

I've been told before now that kit I really like is cr*p - I just ignore 'em!

[Haselsh1]

I get similar questions like this related to photography, how do I get my digital work to look more like film...? The answer really is very simple, use the real thing not just an impersonation of it. Of course you are going to have to realise that to use the real thing takes an awful lot of dedication and intensity as it is far easier to go for convenience every time. That is the thing with digital, it is highly convenient but not necessarily better.