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Thread: Sound and Vision The Bristol Show 2008

  1. #21
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Sunny (occasionally) Devon

    Posts: 1,713
    I'm Shane.

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    So they do exist then, and they are factors that should be taken into account when designing hifi?

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Posts: 252

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    The terminology means nothing to mean but if you mean; Is the music all that matters, then yes, very definitely.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Cheadle Hulme, Cheshire

    Posts: 41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post

    Timing and detailed tonality etc mean nothing to me
    Having wasted too much of my life reading Ashley's tripe, it's now clear that he hasn't a clue and why he can't get anyone to stock his product.

    Can I sugest a nice, quiet retirement home, Eastbourne is just about far enough away.

    Ed.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    LOL, Ed.

    I think we just have to accept that Ashley's views on hi-fi are pretty much diametrically opposed to ours, but that's fine in my book because it would be a boring world if we were all the same. I also think he's a thoroughly nice chap, as I'm sure Steve will testify to having met him at Bristol

    Marco.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

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    Yes Ashley is a nice chap as I found when I met him at Bristol. However, I think he's overlooking the psychoacoustic aspect of what makes a decent hi-fi system connect its listener to the music on an emotional level. The truth (if there is ever such an absolute thing) lies in communicating the musicians' talent and intent on the recording.

    Is there a degree of manipulation of the signal involved? I think that it is unlikely given that the music signal is already manipulated anyway by being signified via electro-mechanical means. Phase coherence in the electro-mechanical domain is an issue that doesn't address itself automatically given the inherent limitations of the way we transmit recorded music to our speakers in our listening rooms. Then you have the question of time smear - this being something that is added by any system that in turn detracts from the fidelity of the capturing of the musical event as it was recorded. Time smear is something that can only be addressed by a process of subtraction not addition to the purity of the musical signal.

    I think the issue of time alignment across the frequency range is possibly something AVI designers may have overlooked in their (maybe) rather simplistic and reductionistic approaches to hi-fi design using their otherwise perhaps quite solid and commendable engineering principles.

    The human ear and brain is, after all, pretty non-linear anyway. The same is far more sensitive to timing issues than anyone from a purely engineering background could ever acknowledge - or measure.

    Timing and tonality come from the music, hi fi can only spoil it if it isn't designed properly.
    Very true indeed. Have you made absolutely certain that your kit is designed properly to address issues of phase coherence and time smear?

  6. #26
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Posts: 424

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    Rob/filterlab, hi. I notice you have an apogee minidac on your kitlist.

    I had one of those about three years ago and liked the sound. However when the digi-stream stopped and re-started it created a click on the out-put when it re-clocked.

    Have you noticed anything like that happening. I returned mine to the supplier.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

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    Ed,

    I really would like you and Larry to audition the Gamut range of kit. I think it is likely you'll both be very impressed. I heard it off QS Ref and MW stuff so what I heard was perhaps only the tip of the iceberg.

    Lets just say that I've only partly got the time alignment thing before; now it is becoming a must for my listening.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

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    Ashley,

    Is it not also a possibility that time delay issues between driver units that occur across the room between speaker(s) and listener have to be addressed somehow through some kind of compensatory manipulation either in the crossover and/or through the use of sloping baffles?

    And that is only the speakers we're talking about. After that you've got the cables, electronics (and stands dealing with vibrations/energy transfer) affecting certain frequencies more so over others.

    In the case of ADM9s you've got cabinet resonances acting on the sensitive electronics within.

    Time delay issues are unlikely to affect the function of fighter aircraft in the same way, wouldn't you agree?

    Implementation of your design to its intended use would be the key if you want listeners not to use your kit for anything other than just background music even if played loud.....

  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Gloucestershire

    Posts: 252

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    The whole point of an Active system is to eradicate time smear, time related distortions or phase problems and seamlessly integrate the drive units.

    There is more time smear in a passive crossover which reduces the amplifiers ability to properly control drive units. Passive crossover blur the sound and make the bass soft and without proper dynamics.

    Putting everything in one place gets a system synergy that isn't possible with conventional hi fi. The reason you have your doubts is quite simply that it's such a big difference it's hard to believe we can be right and so many others wrong.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 6,209
    I'm BigBobJoylove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcbrum View Post
    Rob/filterlab, hi. I notice you have an apogee minidac on your kitlist.

    I had one of those about three years ago and liked the sound. However when the digi-stream stopped and re-started it created a click on the out-put when it re-clocked.

    Have you noticed anything like that happening. I returned mine to the supplier.
    Hello, nothing like that mate, just pure clean music.

    Apogee did a radical redesign of their clocks in mid 2006 and basically set one low speed clock to correct any jitter and another to reclock for the output. Mine's absolutely flawless in every way.

    Ben Duncan mains conditioner
    2022 MacBook Pro 14" M1 Pro 10/16/16/16
    Samsung QE75Q90T 75" QLED TV
    XMOS DSD Async USB to Coax converter
    RME Audio ADI-2 FS (AK4493) DAC
    Chord Clearway XLR interconnects
    Audioquest Crimson USB interconnect
    QED Quartz Reference optical interconnect
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    Atacama SE24 stands

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