Which mains cable first

[johnwhit]

Please read my posts thats what I am saying.

My own experience is that a Belkin cabled, silver plugged cable made sod all difference to my SQ experience wereas a Mains Regenerator did.

I would much rather have a quality screened cable connected to my equipment to eliminate RFI entering. Are you sure the mains generator made a SQ difference? The internals of your Hi-Fi work on DC not AC so regenerating AC perfectly would seem futile IMHO.

John

[AlanS]

I would much rather have a quality screened cable connected to my equipment to eliminate RFI entering. Are you sure the mains generator made a SQ difference? The internals of your Hi-Fi work on DC not AC so regenerating AC perfectly would seem futile IMHO.

John

Never having heard RFI, clicks, DC on the line and other crap people have commented on with mains I could not give a toss about screened cables. Get rid of the feared gremlin? Neither does my television exhibit mains based problems

I am very sure the regenerator made a difference, I took it out of circuit then put it back. I won't try to change your sense of futility. (It isn't futile your understanding is a bit limited). Have you tried one yourself?

[Effem]

Frank

Thanks for these thoughts



I hope we are refering to the leads provided by HiFI kit manufacturers. The ones I have are sturdy, do not bend easily, whereas most kettle leads on PCs at work are light construction.

My supplied leads seem quite adequate to driving significant current, the amp delivers 200/400w audio power



It depends on the type of sound. A pure note and an orchestra playing are very different. MAYBE a 0.01 db difference in level of a single sinewave, say 500 Hz can be heard but that is hardly relevant to real world HiFI listening. I used to spend ages with a sound level meter measuring all sorts of environmental things as my job and complex sounds may just be audible as different at 3 dB difference, more likely 6 dB for the average not highly focused listener.



It's the suggesting that makes me smile as soon as a suggestion is made most peoples minds are seeded with hearing something.

If you want to believe mains cables sound different I will not try to persuade you otherwise but please leave the innocent to find out for themselves rather than tell them what to expect to hear.

To clarify matters, the 0.1db detected by a blind tested listening panel was with various genres of music including, rock, classical, orchestral, etc. No sinewaves were used at all.

It is not a "belief" of mine that says mains cables make a difference to sound quality, it is being in the business of handling hundreds of thousands of mains cables used in a very broad spectrum of hi-fi components and quite a few well conducted blind listening tests too.

I used to attend almost every hi-fi show in the land and as I was walking along the corridors I could tell with 100% certainty which demonstration systems in the various rooms were equipped with sooper dooper mains leads and those which had the "computer leads" supplying the mains. This was borne out by the written "autopsies" and reviews after the shows in the magazines as to which systems sounded the best in the shows.

Of course, there will be many individuals whose hearing acuity is not that great and some so bad they have run their systems for years without the speaker jumper leads in place giving rise to no treble output from the tweeters, so it is hardly surprising a mains lead upgrade will register no improvements at all with them. Some have good hearing acuity but their PERCEPTION of what they hear can be totally different to yours, mine and several millions of others, because their brain absorbs and decodes sounds in a different manner, hence why some adore classical music and others detest it - we are all different.

If it offends you then that I have suggested a way of hearing improvements, then I can only say that you don't really have the right to take up the cudgel by proxy on their behalf, because people really are not that stupid believe me Now if YOU personally can hear no difference at all then I am perfectly happy with that.

Now if a dozen or more forum members responded to my post that I was leading them along the anticipation and expectation road so that they would hear what is NOT there, I would apologise and withdraw my comment in an instant.

[Beobloke]

I would much rather have a quality screened cable connected to my equipment to eliminate RFI entering. Are you sure the mains generator made a SQ difference? The internals of your Hi-Fi work on DC not AC so regenerating AC perfectly would seem futile IMHO.

John

With all due respect, I would have thought that it is perfectly obvious that improving the quality of the actual mains signal will improve things.

Yes, most equipment runs from rectified and smoothed signals but if you're sending in an AC wave that is in some way distorted or clipped, then the distortion in the subsequent stages of the power supply will be higher, thus giving any filter circuits a much harder time, if indeed they are able to remove all of the distortion.

Furthermore in an power amplifier, the output stages generally use the DC signal as it is from the rectifier - ripples, wobbles, warts and all; there is generally no filtering. Consequently, the quality of the mains being fed to an amplifier can potentially make a big difference to its sound, and also makes it obvious why a regenerated mains signal will have much more of an effect than a foot of fancy cable - the latter won't round off a clipped mains signal!

[Macca]

I used to attend almost every hi-fi show in the land and as I was walking along the corridors I could tell with 100% certainty which demonstration systems in the various rooms were equipped with sooper dooper mains leads and those which had the "computer leads" supplying the mains. This was borne out by the written "autopsies" and reviews after the shows in the magazines as to which systems sounded the best in the shows.

.

Please tell me this is exagerration for effect. Im not agianst the idea that mains cables could make a difference to the sound, indeed I think I have heard it myself. But at best it is very subtle.

[sq225917]

Furthermore in an power amplifier, the output stages generally use the AC signal as it is - there is no rectification, just a step down in level by the required amount.

The only AC in an amps output stage is that contained in the music signal. The output stage is fed two things, music signal and DC from the PSU caps. + and - from either side of the cap bank is combined by the output stage devices which are driven by the music signal to give the amplified AC that is sent to the speakers.

[MCRU]

Please tell me this is exagerration for effect. Im not agianst the idea that mains cables could make a difference to the sound, indeed I think I have heard it myself. But at best it is very subtle.

hi
that depends on the system and the cables, no 2 systems are alike

[AlanS]

To clarify matters, the 0.1db detected by a blind tested listening panel was with various genres of music including, rock, classical, orchestral, etc. No sinewaves were used at all.

It is not a "belief" of mine that says mains cables make a difference to sound quality, it is being in the business of handling hundreds of thousands of mains cables used in a very broad spectrum of hi-fi components and quite a few well conducted blind listening tests too.

I used to attend almost every hi-fi show in the land and as I was walking along the corridors I could tell with 100% certainty which demonstration systems in the various rooms were equipped with sooper dooper mains leads and those which had the "computer leads" supplying the mains. This was borne out by the written "autopsies" and reviews after the shows in the magazines as to which systems sounded the best in the shows.

Of course, there will be many individuals whose hearing acuity is not that great and some so bad they have run their systems for years without the speaker jumper leads in place giving rise to no treble output from the tweeters, so it is hardly surprising a mains lead upgrade will register no improvements at all with them. Some have good hearing acuity but their PERCEPTION of what they hear can be totally different to yours, mine and several millions of others, because their brain absorbs and decodes sounds in a different manner, hence why some adore classical music and others detest it - we are all different.

If it offends you then that I have suggested a way of hearing improvements, then I can only say that you don't really have the right to take up the cudgel by proxy on their behalf, because people really are not that stupid believe me Now if YOU personally can hear no difference at all then I am perfectly happy with that.

Now if a dozen or more forum members responded to my post that I was leading them along the anticipation and expectation road so that they would hear what is NOT there, I would apologise and withdraw my comment in an instant.

Frank

I know you believe what you post is true BUT I cannot be arsed trying to point out that 0.01 Db or even 0.1 dB (did you notice the difference) is so small you have got it wrong. Go find the work and reread it, maybe post it here to put us all in the picture.

If people want to believe what you have posted best of luck to them. If people want to buy super cables for whatever reason, caveat emptor. If people ask what improvements they will get I'll tell them - listen on trial and don't be told what to hear, make your own mind up.

In the interest of peace and goodwill see you on another thread

[Effem]

Frank

I know you believe what you post is true BUT I cannot be arsed trying to point out that 0.01 Db or even 0.1 dB (did you notice the difference) is so small you have got it wrong. Go find the work and reread it, maybe post it here to put us all in the picture.

If people want to believe what you have posted best of luck to them. If people want to buy super cables for whatever reason, caveat emptor. If people ask what improvements they will get I'll tell them - listen on trial and don't be told what to hear, make your own mind up.

In the interest of peace and goodwill see you on another thread

Alan, it matters not to me if folks believe me or not, it is merely my opinion which they can take or leave as they see fit and may I be struck down if I assert otherwise. Whatever either one of us says, it is still the prerogative of everyone to take heed of the caveat emptor imperative.

My apologies, it is 0.1db and not 0.01db which is a huge difference I agree

I am more than happy to agree to disagree and this is after all simply a discussion between us that happens to have opposing views

[johnwhit]

Never having heard RFI, clicks, DC on the line and other crap people have commented on with mains

Me neither

Neither does my television exhibit mains based problems

Nor mine

I am very sure the regenerator made a difference, I took it out of circuit then put it back.

I'll have to take your word for that

Have you tried one yourself?

I've no need or desire to.

John