Which mains cable first

[Effem]

The component with the highest current draw first, because that more than any other will benefit the most from the decreased loop resistance in the mains circuit. Remember, you are not putting IN something that is "better" per se, you are taking OUT something inadequate (the cheapo kettle lead) that is the source of unwanted impedance in the circuit.

So many people will state "I tried a sooper dooper cable and heard no difference" and that is probably because they don't know what exactly they are listening out for. It will manifest itself best of all in my humble experience in the bass registers by a reduction in boom/overhang plus much better bass control, which is best observed blind outside of the listening room and a spare pair of hands to make the swap over can be beneficial here. Next, listen to the midband especially for a reduction in noise and hiss, followed by the treble for confirmation of those particular traits.

[johnwhit]

It will manifest itself best of all in my humble experience in the bass registers by a reduction in boom/overhang plus much better bass control, which is best observed blind outside of the listening room

It was in the bass department I thought I heard a difference, but only slight, without the benefit of a blind test outside the room. Maybe I'll get a better result when I finally sort the amp with some Belden

John

[AlanS]

The component with the highest current draw first, because that more than any other will benefit the most from the decreased loop resistance in the mains circuit. Remember, you are not putting IN something that is "better" per se, you are taking OUT something inadequate (the cheapo kettle lead) that is the source of unwanted impedance in the circuit.

Have you any figures for impedance for super cables and kettle leads?

Kettle leads carry higher currents for kettles than the vast majority of HiFi equipment and are much maligned.

This all sounds convincing theory but I suspect has virtually no effect. The difference in resistance for the two cable types will be small and the voltage/current flowing large. How much impact does 1 ohm have on 240 volts and 3 amps?
A kettle will draw 8 or more amps if 2kw.

So many people will state "I tried a sooper dooper cable and heard no difference" and that is probably because they don't know what exactly they are listening out for. It will manifest itself best of all in my humble experience in the bass registers by a reduction in boom/overhang plus much better bass control, which is best observed blind outside of the listening room and a spare pair of hands to make the swap over can be beneficial here. Next, listen to the midband especially for a reduction in noise and hiss, followed by the treble for confirmation of those particular traits.

I immediately thought of the HiFI salesman tapping his feet as he demonstrates something, asking doesn't it have great rhythm?

If you have to have what you can hear suggested to you then there is every chance you hear the suggestion rather than anything that is there otherwise.

Sorry but if I have to have my attention directed to the "benefit" of cables then it isn't really worth the bother for SQ reasons. Other reasons may of course make you wish to have the cable.

When I put my mains regenerator into my system I didn't have to have my attention draw to what I could hear it sounded different. It is an active component and alters the AC wave being used. Mains cables are passive and unlike audio interconnects cannot directly affect audio with different composition, connectors.

Expectation is a powerful force especially as it is harder to compare the hearing senses unlike the visual, smile please.

[julesd68]

Just upgraded my Mains block from Lidl to MCRUS block.

I'm guessing that the construction is a million times better, but apart from that, I'm interested to know what you felt the upgrade was James?

[Effem]

Have you any figures for impedance for super cables and kettle leads?

Kettle leads carry higher currents for kettles than the vast majority of HiFi equipment and are much maligned.

"Kettle leads" is a popular misnomer, because the majority of these leads in circulation are designed for computers, monitors and such-like carrying 3 amps or less and these are the leads I refer to.

This all sounds convincing theory but I suspect has virtually no effect. The difference in resistance for the two cable types will be small and the voltage/current flowing large. How much impact does 1 ohm have on 240 volts and 3 amps?
A kettle will draw 8 or more amps if 2kw.

None of that is relevant in this argument when we dismiss the notion of "kettle leads" with huge variations in construction quality.

I was once told a human can only detect sound level differences of no less than 3db, but a controlled blind test concluded that some individuals CAN detect differences as low as 0.01db.

I immediately thought of the HiFI salesman tapping his feet as he demonstrates something, asking doesn't it have great rhythm?

If you have to have what you can hear suggested to you then there is every chance you hear the suggestion rather than anything that is there otherwise.

Sorry but if I have to have my attention directed to the "benefit" of cables then it isn't really worth the bother for SQ reasons. Other reasons may of course make you wish to have the cable.

When I put my mains regenerator into my system I didn't have to have my attention draw to what I could hear it sounded different. It is an active component and alters the AC wave being used. Mains cables are passive and unlike audio interconnects cannot directly affect audio with different composition, connectors.

Expectation is a powerful force especially as it is harder to compare the hearing senses unlike the visual, smile please.

Don't start me off on expectations, please!

Your perceptions of what YOU hear is not the same as mine, nor are either of ours similar or even close to what others may or may not hear. I only suggested ONE way of highlighting the effects a change of mains cable can make and that can mean nothing at all to someone whose hearing is less acute, or speak volumes to someone who can.

[Beobloke]

So many people will state "I tried a sooper dooper cable and heard no difference" and that is probably because they don't know what exactly they are listening out for.

Certainly that's one possible explanation. However it might also be because of the tiny possibility that there IS no difference...

[sq225917]

Certainly that's one possible explanation. However it might also be because of the tiny possibility that there IS no difference...

Most likely this.

If your wires are 2mm thick or more and everything is done up tight with the correctly rated fuse, and all your contacts are clean there's probably not much more to be gained, certainly there's no scientific proof that any audible differences exist from mains cable upgrades.

Of course swapping out a 3 amp IEC cable that's feeding a 200 Watt class A amp might well lead to an improvement.

[AlanS]

Frank

Thanks for these thoughts

"Kettle leads" is a popular misnomer, because the majority of these leads in circulation are designed for computers, monitors and such-like carrying 3 amps or less and these are the leads I refer to.

None of that is relevant in this argument when we dismiss the notion of "kettle leads" with huge variations in construction quality.

I hope we are refering to the leads provided by HiFI kit manufacturers. The ones I have are sturdy, do not bend easily, whereas most kettle leads on PCs at work are light construction.

My supplied leads seem quite adequate to driving significant current, the amp delivers 200/400w audio power

I was once told a human can only detect sound level differences of no less than 3db, but a controlled blind test concluded that some individuals CAN detect differences as low as 0.01db.

It depends on the type of sound. A pure note and an orchestra playing are very different. MAYBE a 0.01 db difference in level of a single sinewave, say 500 Hz can be heard but that is hardly relevant to real world HiFI listening. I used to spend ages with a sound level meter measuring all sorts of environmental things as my job and complex sounds may just be audible as different at 3 dB difference, more likely 6 dB for the average not highly focused listener.

Don't start me off on expectations, please!

Your perceptions of what YOU hear is not the same as mine, nor are either of ours similar or even close to what others may or may not hear. I only suggested ONE way of highlighting the effects a change of mains cable can make and that can mean nothing at all to someone whose hearing is less acute, or speak volumes to someone who can.

It's the suggesting that makes me smile as soon as a suggestion is made most peoples minds are seeded with hearing something.

If you want to believe mains cables sound different I will not try to persuade you otherwise but please leave the innocent to find out for themselves rather than tell them what to expect to hear.

[isuckedmandelsonslemons]

AlanS, are you saying mains cables make no difference to sound quality?

[AlanS]

AlanS, are you saying mains cables make no difference to sound quality?

Please read my posts thats what I am saying.

My own experience is that a Belkin cabled, silver plugged cable made sod all difference to my SQ experience wereas a Mains Regenerator did. I also have spent my time measuring sound with a sound level meter and know what level of sound measures for differences I have heard. Purist measurement of a single frequency note in the right environment may detect change at 0.1 dB, complex everyday sounds will not be detected at such a small difference.

I am also saying innocents are asking what they think/hope/trust are better experienced/knowledged persons about mains cables making a difference. As soon as you tell someone what they will hear there is a strong possibility they will hear it. I say tell them to listen for themselves rather than you be Mr Expert or put a big IMHO. As Frank says people are different some may be super sensitive to SQ, musicians I suspect most likely.

Addendum

I should say I am open to hearing a difference if someone can demonstrate it rather than talk about it. In fact it would make me smile to hear something like the difference my mains regenerator made.

Want to send/post a couple of recordings of mains cable difference?