which phono stage for dl103?

[jimmieg]

Hello all:
I will soon be getting a Thorens TD160 with Sumiko MMT and DL103. I need to get a new phono stage for this set up and not entirely sure which way to go. I am currently thinking about the Gram Amp 3 Fanfare and hoping someone can provide some input. I have also considered the Phonomena II, and also wondering if I should get the K&K SUT right away? Trying not to spend more than about $500 for now. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide.

[Marco]

Hi Jim (I presume?)

Welcome to AOS

Nice set-up you've got there, especially the MMT, which will match very well with your DL-103. I have much experience with using this cartridge and optimising its performance, so would recommend the following:

1) An extra-heavy detachable headshell for your Sumiko. The stock one is good quality but unfortunately not quite high enough in mass to ideally suit the 103 - it's about 6g too light to be optimal, so you need one of these (make sure you go for an LH-18, which has a mass of 18g):

http://www.audiocubes2.com/brand/Aud...ead_Shell.html

I use one of those myself, along with a Fidelity Research S/5, and they're excellent. There is also no alignment required as the headshell is supplied with two sets of pre-drilled screws which the cartridge screws into from the underneath of the headshell, avoiding the need for tedious to use nuts on the top. Simply select the holes nearest the front of the headshell, screw some bolts in, and your cartridge will be perfectly aligned - you can check it with your usual protractor.

2) In my experience, the 103 works best with a MC step-up transformer in conjunction with a MM phono stage. With your budget, I would buy one of these from the same site:

http://www.audiocubes2.com/brand/Den...ng_Trance.html

They're great little things and are designed purposely with the 103 in mind.

You then have the option of buying whichever MM phono stage you fancy which fits in with the remainder of your budget. I would say that the Graham Slee entry-level ones are as good as any at that price, or those from Creek, Pro-ject, etc. Or you could try one of these which are also rather good:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Audio-Technica-A...4.c0.m14.l1262

Or:

http://cgi.ebay.com/YAMAHA-HA-5-Phon...4.c0.m14.l1262

Hope this helps. If there's anything else you need to know just ask!

Marco.

[jimmieg]

Marco, that's great info thanks. I'll get the denon sut today. With regard to the two mm amps you suggest.....I currently have the NAD PP2. Would either of these be a step up?

[Marco]

Hi Jim,

No worries. Don't forget to buy the AT headshell, too - this is absolutely ESSENTIAL (I can't stress this enough), as the stock Sumiko headshell is too light for a 103 and the cartridge will sound bright and rather 'shouty' as a result, certainly compared with how I know the cartridge should sound when optimised.

The PP2 is a very good little budget MM stage, but if it were me I'd be tempted to try the Audio Technica. I've not used one personally, but given AT's reputation with phono accessories I suspect that it will be really good and a step up from the NAD. It looks rather like one of those little 'treasures' one usually only finds for sale on the Japanese market.

If you decide to go for it, do let us know how you get on

Best,
Marco.

[Prince of Darkness]

Would either of these be a step up?

The step ups Marco refers to are transformers, used to increase the low voltage output from the cartridge to a sufficient level to drive the phono stage, and also to match the impedances.

[Marco]

Hehe... I think he meant the two phono stages I linked to on Ebay being a "step up" (improvement) from his PP2... You're doing well these days, Kevin!



Marco.

[jimmieg]

I should have been more clear. Yes I meant "step up" as "improvement." I am comparing these to the Hagerman Bugle which I have always heard about as a budget favorite. I called Hagerman and spoke to them today, and was told that if I purchased one assembled and not as a kit, they could set it up at high enough gain (60) to accomodate low output moving coils. I still want the Denon step up (as in signal boost). Should I order the Bugle as it were going to be used with mm cartridges or with mc? Thanks again, Jim

[DSJR]

I should still add that even though over-massing the arm can be good if the cantilever assembly is well damped, the basic compliance of the 103's isn't that low, which makes me wonder if there's something else in play. Using an 18 gramme shell is going to take the arm-cart resonance down to warp frequencies (and a springy sub-chassis ought to be avoided I feel).

Anyway, good luck to all prospective and actual 103 owners.


P.S. WHY does this stuff have to be so expensive? The prices seem to have increased by at least 50% in the last ten years or so, yet relative wages haven't IMO. The Dynavector 10XV was £225 IIRC when introduced and now it's £300. The 20 series has gone from £300 to nearly £500 and the 17D's (which I always liked a lot although the OC9 is probably easily as good) are now several hundred quid. The currency situation can't account for all of this, can it?

Rant over

[pure sound]

P.S. WHY does this stuff have to be so expensive? The prices seem to have increased by at least 50% in the last ten years or so, yet relative wages haven't IMO. The Dynavector 10XV was £225 IIRC when introduced and now it's £300. The 20 series has gone from £300 to nearly £500 and the 17D's (which I always liked a lot although the OC9 is probably easily as good) are now several hundred quid. The currency situation can't account for all of this, can it?

Rant over

From a high of 250 Yen to the pound in mid 2007 its now trading at about half that ie 128 Yen to the pound, so no surprise that the costs of Japanese goods have doubled recently

[Chris]

If the Hagerman Piccolo is anything to go by, I´d go for the Bugle for MCs and its own power supply instead of batteries. I use one with my Piccolo fixed at max gain (26dB) and it is totally silent. Of course I use a Troika and not a 103.
P.S. Experiment with the load impedance resistors - when I fitted Schinkohs, things got a lot better.