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Thread: Pet Hates........or FFS

  1. #4961
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minstrel SE View Post
    People in politics are usually thick as a brick. What they have is an arrogance and beligerance on a power trip. Reducing and then banning guns is the way to go. Until that happens mass shootings in particular will continue to happen.

    Humans will always get angry and its more crowded than ever...best to remove a form of easy, mass killing...dont you agree?. I will accept starting to change and I know its a long process of sorting the mess out . If you look more deeply its part of the divide and rule culture...again a loaded gun does not actually set you free!
    No-one is disputing that there is a problem but the proposed 'solution', as always, is to 'ban it!'. When history shows that banning things does not work. But on the surface it looks simple and is therefore an attractive proposition. Likewise the idea that all the problems in the world are the result of the few bad people, a handful of rotten apples who have somehow come to have power over the rest of us and if we could just get rid of them everything would be perfect. Again, an attractive proposition as it's simple and at the same time absolves the rest of us of any complicity. It's how it works on television and in Hollywood films, is it really the situation in reality? I don't think so.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #4962
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minstrel SE View Post
    Im getting desentitised to be honest. If they wont sort it, why should I be bothered about another news broadcast. I think I mention it here because Im getting pissed off with another cycle of faux concern from the people that should be doing something about it
    I am feeling the same tbh, but then we do have the relative safety of living in the UK.

  3. #4963
    Join Date: Dec 2014

    Location: UK, inactive

    Posts: 1,570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    No-one is disputing that there is a problem but the proposed 'solution', as always, is to 'ban it!'. When history shows that banning things does not work.
    Far too generalised and selective view of history ...
    Sure some bans appeared to have an adverse effect (such as prohibition) but recent history in the UK contradicts your blanket statement.

    The ban on smoking in public buildings contributed to a huge reduction in smoking.
    Severely limiting the distribution of single use plastic bags led to a massive reduction in their use.

    So yes, some bans might not be effective - but others can work very well indeed if you have a gov that is willing to do the necessary.

  4. #4964
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Banning something that everyone has, and they feel they have a right to will never work(prohibition was a good example, and US guns are gonna be similar I guess). It worked here because relatively few had them or wanted them(same with smoking)
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


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  5. #4965
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikmas View Post
    Far too generalised and selective view of history ...
    Sure some bans appeared to have an adverse effect (such as prohibition) but recent history in the UK contradicts your blanket statement.

    The ban on smoking in public buildings contributed to a huge reduction in smoking.
    Severely limiting the distribution of single use plastic bags led to a massive reduction in their use.

    So yes, some bans might not be effective - but others can work very well indeed if you have a gov that is willing to do the necessary.
    plastic bags were not banned, larger shops just have to charge 5 pence. In that situation I suspect it is not the five pence itself but that the charge focused people's minds on the environmental issue and they voluntarily started doing something about it.


    reduction is smoking is due to many factors, I'd argue the chief one is that they have massively banged up the cost of it. Again, like the bags, it isn't banned. Banning the sale of tobacco has been suggested many times, they have not done it, why is that?


    Lots of things are 'banned' but people still do them: theft, murder, prostitution, drugs, speeding, violent behaviour, drunk driving, sexual assault.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #4966
    Join Date: Dec 2014

    Location: UK, inactive

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    plastic bags were not banned, larger shops just have to charge 5 pence.

    reduction is smoking is due to many factors, I'd argue the chief one is that they have massively banged up the cost of it. Again, like the bags, it isn't banned. Banning the sale of tobacco has been suggested many times, they have not done it, why is that?


    Lots of things are 'banned' but people still do them: theft, murder, prostitution, drugs, speeding, violent behaviour, drunk driving, sexual assault.
    Read my post again Martin - I didn't say plastic bags were banned, nor did I claim that the 'public place' ban on smoking was the sole reason for the drastic fall.

    In the case of the US the 'banning of guns' you are railing against (disproportionally) is not being proposed by many at all. What is being argued for is limiting the availability of certain types of firearms (such as assault rifles) and regulating their sale more strictly.

    It is predictable that the pro-gun lobby wheels out the same old tired arguments about this issue - shame really that they are such a strong lobby when the problem is clearly massive and tragic and the solutions easily to hand.

    As for the last line of your post (in bold) - really? - did you really want to put that forward as an argument?

  7. #4967
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikmas View Post
    Read my post again Martin - I didn't say plastic bags were banned, nor did I claim that the 'public place' ban on smoking was the sole reason for the drastic fall.

    In the case of the US the 'banning of guns' you are railing against (disproportionally) is not being proposed by many at all. What is being argued for is limiting the availability of certain types of firearms (such as assault rifles) and regulating their sale more strictly.

    It is predictable that the pro-gun lobby wheels out the same old tired arguments about this issue - shame really that they are such a strong lobby when the problem is clearly massive and tragic and the solutions easily to hand.

    As for the last line of your post (in bold) - really? - did you really want to put that forward as an argument?
    You didn't say the bags were banned, my mistake, although that sort of proves my point that banning is not required in order to change behaviour. I've already addressed the question of assault rifles. If you want to go on a rampage you can kill just as many with a handgun. Added to which in most US states it already illegal to own or sell assault weapons.


    And yes, I do wish to put that forward as an argument. The reason most of us do not do those things I've listed (except perhaps speeding) is because we don't want to (for a variety of factors, the legal consequences only being one of them). Conformity to a societal norm and acceptability is the main driver. Once you get a situation where a majority of people are doing it the societal norm shifts and the ban has no effect on behaviour.


    In other words if you want people to stop doing something you have to change the way they think, banning it will be ineffective until you have done that. They have to want not to do it. Now if you could change American society to the point where it became socially and morally unacceptable to own firearms then you would have a solution. I have no idea how that would be accomplished though.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #4968
    Join Date: Dec 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The reason most of us do not do those things I've listed (except perhaps speeding) is because we don't want to (for a variety of factors, the legal consequences only being one of them). Conformity to a societal norm and acceptability is the main driver.
    'Chicken and Egg' territory Martin

    ...1st year seminar debate material on a Cultural Studies course

  9. #4969
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Posts from mobile devices that insist on adding a "sent from my............!" postscript every bloody time!

    Why don't they turn that irritating 'feature' off!!
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  10. #4970
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    its well hidden but its there in settings of tapatalk
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

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