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Thread: Electric cars, and the national grid!

  1. #1
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,647
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

    Default Electric cars, and the national grid!

    Hi All,
    Something i have had a Bee in my bonnet about for a while now, Electric cars, and the posibility of all of us being able to transfer over to using one within the next 15 years or so.
    I, as i am sure there are many others here who have given the logistics some thought; think it a near imposibilty for it to work with our current infer-structure, i was listening to radio 2 this morning, where they were discusing that very topic, and one guy put things into perspective; he said and i quote; if just one person in every household in Britain who currently use a car was to change to a fully electric vehicle; at 6-00pm when most are home from work, and therefore are wanting to plug in the car to re-charge, it would quite posibly cause a widespread blackout, now,,,he went on the explain that for it to have any chance of working, we would need at least another 4 nuclear power stations, or around 9 fossil fuel power stations to cope. The so called informed one on there making the arguement for the electric car explained; well you may plug your car in at that time, but it won't get charged untill the grid can cope, and also; if the charging system detects that you have a near full battery, there is a posibilty that the charging system may even take energy from your batteries to supply the grid, or to charge batteries in other cars on the same system!
    Now, anyone who has thought about this, and have an idea of how much energy electric cars currently need to deliver any sort of useable mileage, will have realised that its a lot, and therefore the electricity needed, or should i say; the Kilowatt hour it takes to in affect reverse the chemical reaction of the battery, and therefore; allow the battery to re-charge, is many kilowatts, for hours. therefore some of the so called fast charger systems currently used to charge these cars are on par with leaving your shower on for hour after hour, i know they are relying on the fact that many cars wont need to be re-charged from scratch,ie, they may still have half charge, but come on, as more and more of us are expected to go over to this technology;how many cars are eventually going to need to be fully charged on a regular basis ?
    I know this post is a bit of a rant, but its one of those subjects that has been annoying me now for a few years, and there still doesent seem to be any answers coming forward that look to me as sustainable long term answers that i can see, ofcourse there's Hydrogen technology too, but again; what energy source are they going to use to create that ?
    Please join in and discuss.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


    When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole... and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket. Nikola Tesla, 1926
    We Send our kids to school to be Educated, not Medicated!

  2. #2
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Toulouse, France

    Posts: 4,839
    I'm Kevin.

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    You are forgetting the enviromental impact of the battery as well. Will the post Brexit UK be able to import power from Europe at a reasonable.cost, like it does now?

    Will the government price the normal.person out of car ownership, forcing the majority back to public transport?

    Interesting tomes are ahead for sure.
    Kevin

    Too busy enjoying the music....

    European loan coordinator for Graham Slee HiFi system components..

  3. #3
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 64,201
    I'm Grant.

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    battery tech is improving all time and a new lithium/oxygen version has been made to work, so that tech will no doubt get followed up now more vigorously.
    10 years from now we might not recognise the tech; or of course it might just be all smoke and mirrors from the politicians, which is actually quite likely
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/AUDIRVANA & JRIVER - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

    RIP Terry... "We use only the finest baby frogs, dew picked and flown from Iraq, cleansed in finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and then sealed in a succulent Swiss quintuple smooth treble cream milk chocolate envelope and lovingly frosted with glucose."

  4. #4
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,647
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

    Default

    Ohh, i understand that aspect of it too, but the actual logistics of things, as far as the energy side, is where my main concerns are, as far as this thread is concerned, for now anyway!
    Quote Originally Posted by CageyH View Post
    You are forgetting the enviromental impact of the battery as well. Will the post Brexit UK be able to import power from Europe at a reasonable.cost, like it does now?

    Will the government price the normal.person out of car ownership, forcing the majority back to public transport?

    Interesting tomes are ahead for sure.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


    When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole... and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket. Nikola Tesla, 1926
    We Send our kids to school to be Educated, not Medicated!

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 7,647
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

    Default

    Indeed Grant, but you still have to get the energy to charge the battery, its all relevant i know, but untill you make things much much more efficient than they currently are, you will still need the same energy to travel 1 mile at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    battery tech is improving all time and a new lithium/oxygen version has been made to work, so that tech will no doubt get followed up now more vigorously.
    10 years from now we might not recognise the tech; or of course it might just be all smoke and mirrors from the politicians, which is actually quite likely
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


    When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be converted into a huge brain, which in fact it is, all things being particles of a real and rhythmic whole... and the instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will be able to carry one in his vest pocket. Nikola Tesla, 1926
    We Send our kids to school to be Educated, not Medicated!

  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Toulouse, France

    Posts: 4,839
    I'm Kevin.

    Default

    Supercapacitors are one possible solution.
    The national grid will need a major upgrade for sure.
    Kevin

    Too busy enjoying the music....

    European loan coordinator for Graham Slee HiFi system components..

  7. #7
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Indeed Grant, but you still have to get the energy to charge the battery, its all relevant i know, but untill you make things much much more efficient than they currently are, you will still need the same energy to travel 1 mile at a time.
    current thinking is that hydrogen is a non starter, so that leaves batteries, or no cars at all...we could go back to horses but they probably produce more pollution overall than cars. hence the smoke and mirrors... they are just playing a political game
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/AUDIRVANA & JRIVER - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

    RIP Terry... "We use only the finest baby frogs, dew picked and flown from Iraq, cleansed in finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and then sealed in a succulent Swiss quintuple smooth treble cream milk chocolate envelope and lovingly frosted with glucose."

  8. #8
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

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    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Now of course, is the time to invest in an old school, non-turbo diesel car. A nice low mileage example.

    Diesel commercial and farming vehicles will be around for years yet, so fuel won't be in short supply.

    A good solid Golf or Polo 1.9 circa 2005 should do nicely. 60 mpg and bulletproof mechanics and spares will not be a problem.

    The natural attrition of other diesel cars will set in soon, so any environmental arguments will rather fall down.
    "when common sense, logic and plausibility are excluded. All that remain are foolishness and lies"

  9. #9
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 12,969
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  10. #10
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 64,201
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CageyH View Post
    You are forgetting the enviromental impact of the battery as well. Will the post Brexit UK be able to import power from Europe at a reasonable.cost, like it does now?

    Will the government price the normal.person out of car ownership, forcing the majority back to public transport?

    Interesting tomes are ahead for sure.
    sure that is a possible intention.. of course they will have problems with moving workers etc, but of course politicians wont have that worry.. im glad i will be dead
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    OPPO BDP-103D - JBE SERIES 3/B&O SP1/PROJECT PHONOBOX DS2 USB - QUAD VENA 2 - IFI PURIFIER 2/TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK POWER AMPLIFIERS - LEAF HD BLUETOOTH - OPPO PM-3 PLANAR, SONY H900 & NURAPHONE HEADPHONES - ZBOOK/ IFI SILENCER/WIN10 PRO/AUDIRVANA & JRIVER - SMSL M6 DAC & IFI SILENCER - RPI 3+, DIGIONE HAT/VOLUMIO2 - EDINGDALE MK1 SPEAKERS - CABLE INC CHORD, MOGAMI, SUPRA & WIREWORLD

    **Men are not punished for their sins, but by them**Don't be such a big girl's blouse!**
    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

    RIP Terry... "We use only the finest baby frogs, dew picked and flown from Iraq, cleansed in finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and then sealed in a succulent Swiss quintuple smooth treble cream milk chocolate envelope and lovingly frosted with glucose."

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