Which MC SUT?

[Ammonite Audio]

I have decided that I do need to treat myself to a new SUT when I get home. My Bob's Devices Cinemag SUT is great for what it costs, but I have heard Martin's Choir Audio Hashimoto HM7 SUT and life was not really the same afterwards. It was very good.

That ought to point towards an easy choice, since the Choir Audio SUT is fairly priced and is a known entity; however I rather like the idea of the Music First SUT, which has a bit more flexibility in terms of gain and loading, although at a higher price point than Choir's SUT (even taking into account import duty and VAT).

I can, of course, try the Music First SUT at home, but I'd be interested to hear comments from anyone who has experience with this SUT, particularly with Ortofon or Benz low output MC cartridges.

A wildcard option is to go DIY, perhaps employing Audio Note transformers, but I'm not sure that I have the patience and skills required to implement them properly.

Thoughts, anyone?

[MartinT]

Hugo, why don't you home loan the Music First SUT and I could bring the Choir SUT-H7 around for a comparison if you like?

[Marco]

Hi Hugo,

Martin's Hashimotos are very good indeed, and they certainly get the thumbs up from me. However, IME, the secret to success with an SUT is in achieving synergy, sonically, with the partnering cartridge - and that means finding the ideal match.

Martin was lucky that he happened to hit upon such synergy, between his Shelter 5000 and the H7, but there's nothing to say that the same will apply with your Ortofon (Kontrapunkt B?) unless you've listened to your T/T, with that cartridge, in Martin's system? That principle also applies with the Music First unit, which you're considering. Who knows which cartridge will provide the idea balance with it, sonically? It's a bit of a lottery....

In my view, one of the easiest ways of achieving the desired synergy is to use a cartridge and SUT from the same manufacturer. That way, you get the benefits of them both being designed (and voiced) together from the ground up...

It's not simply about electrical matching, but more importantly the respective 'sonic signatures' of the cartridge, and the transformers used in the SUT, synergising together, in order to achieve the right sound balance. The last thing you want is an inherently toppy sounding SUT, paired with a similarly voiced cartridge (or the opposite), and no amount of fiddling with gain or loading values will cure such a fundamental imbalance.

With my extensive experimenting recently with various SUT, before settling on the Ortofon, I found this aspect of 'voicing' the SUT to the cartridge, out with of more prosaic considerations, such as gain and loading, absolutely crucial to achieving the most musical sounding results. Since you have an Ortofon cartridge, I would urge you to consider Ortofon's own top-of-the-range SUT, the ST-80SE, which I myself use:











Trust me, it sounds absolutely fabulous with my SPU, and also a Cadenza Bronze, I've heard it with, and I suspect that your own Ortofon cartridge would love it, too. Anyway, it's just another option for you to consider. If you fancy popping up for a listen, when you get back home, just let me know

Marco.

[oceanobsession]

Hi Hugo,

Martin's Hashimotos are very good indeed, and they certainly get the thumbs up from me. However, IME, the secret to success with an SUT is in achieving synergy, sonically, with the partnering cartridge - and that means finding the ideal match.

Martin was lucky that he happened to hit upon such synergy, between his Shelter 5000 and the H7, but there's nothing to say that the same will apply with your Ortofon (Kontrapunkt B?) unless you've listened to your T/T, with that cartridge, in Martin's system? That principle also applies with the Music First unit, which you're considering. Who knows which cartridge will provide the idea balance with it, sonically? It's a bit of a lottery....

In my view, one of the easiest ways of achieving the desired synergy is to use a cartridge and SUT from the same manufacturer. That way, you get the benefits of them both being designed (and voiced) together from the ground up...

It's not simply about electrical matching, but more importantly the respective 'sonic signatures' of the cartridge, and the transformers used in the SUT, synergising together, in order to achieve the right sound balance. The last thing you want is an inherently toppy sounding SUT, paired with a similarly voiced cartridge (or the opposite), and no amount of fiddling with gain or loading values will cure such a fundamental imbalance.

With my extensive experimenting recently with various SUT, before settling on the Ortofon, I found this aspect of 'voicing' the SUT to the cartridge, out with of more prosaic considerations, such as gain and loading, absolutely crucial to achieving the most musical sounding results. Since you have an Ortofon cartridge, I would urge you to consider Ortofon's own top-of-the-range SUT, the ST-80SE, which I myself use:











Trust me, it sounds absolutely fabulous with my SPU, and also a Cadenza Bronze, I've heard it with, and I suspect that your own Ortofon cartridge would love it, too. Anyway, it's just another option for you to consider. If you fancy popping up for a listen, when you get back home, just let me know

Marco.

Hi marco, just interested to know what you thought about the cadenza bronze, compared to the spu, cheers phil.

[Marco]

Hi marco, just interested to know what you thought about the cadenza bronze, compared to the spu, cheers phil.

Hi Phil,

The Cadenza has a very similar presentation to the SPU, although it is a little 'cleaner' at the top end, I suspect due to its technically superior (Replicant) stylus, but still has 90% of the captivating natural tonality and addictive musicality of the SPU. The Cadenza is a little more 'hi-fi' sounding, but not in a clinical way. It also has double the output of an SPU, so therefore places less demands on a phono stage.

There's still something 'magical', though, about the way that the SPU reproduces recorded music, somehow without it sounding like it's been recorded: music just 'happens' and sounds so natural and believable, especially the way that voices and acoustic instruments are handled, particularly the sax and piano. There's a beguiling effortlessness to it all which makes performances almost tangible. No other cartridge I've heard does this.

However, the Cadenza Bronze/ST-80SE combo still sounded phenomenal, and was one I certainly could live with, simply as it gives a different and most entertaining view of what's on recordings; it's not as 'soulful', as an SPU, but damn near it, and with other valuable attributes. I may in fact treat myself to a Cadenza Bronze, as a back-up/alternative option for the SPU, as I was rather impressed!

Marco.

[oceanobsession]

Hi Phil,

The Cadenza has a very similar presentation to the SPU, although it is a little 'cleaner' at the top end, I suspect due to its technically superior (Replicant) stylus, but still has 90% of the captivating natural tonality and addictive musicality of the SPU. The Cadenza is a little more 'hi-fi' sounding, but not in a clinical way. It also has double the output of an SPU, so therefore places less demands on a phono stage.

There's still something 'magical', though, about the way that the SPU reproduces recorded music, somehow without it sounding like it's been recorded: music just 'happens' and sounds so natural and believable, especially the way that voices and acoustic instruments are handled, particularly the sax and piano. There's a beguiling effortlessness to it all which makes performances almost tangible. No other cartridge I've heard does this.

However, the Cadenza Bronze/ST-80SE combo still sounded phenomenal, and was one I certainly could live with, simply as it gives a different and most entertaining view of what's on recordings; it's not as 'soulful', as an SPU, but damn near it, and with other valuable attributes. I may in fact treat myself to a Cadenza Bronze, as a back-up/alternative option for the SPU, as I was rather impressed!

Marco.

Marco, both are great cartridges, i thought the spu and cadenza was fat in my system, but it was the speaker cables causing the problem, ive now got
some mogami 2972, much better,im now thinking about a turntable upgrade
but how much would i have to spend to better what ive got. cheers phil.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I may in fact treat myself to a Cadenza Bronze, as a back-up/alternative option for the SPU, as I was rather impressed!

Marco.

The black is much better, if your going to treat yourself then do it properly

[Marco]

Lol... The Cadenza was touted as sounding 'SPU-like', supposedly partly due to its conical cantilever, which lends it a more 'musical' presentation, and having heard the Cadenza, and compared it with my SPU, I can confirm that the assertion is valid.

Therefore, given that's the case, I suspect that I'd prefer it to the, arguably more accurate and 'superior', Black

Marco.

[MikeMusic]

Martin's Hashimotos are very good indeed, and they certainly get the thumbs up from me. However, IME, the secret to success with an SUT is in achieving synergy, sonically, with the partnering cartridge - and that means finding the ideal match.

Martin was lucky that he happened to hit upon such synergy, between his Shelter 5000 and the H7, but there's nothing to say that the same will apply with your Ortofon (Kontrapunkt B?) unless you've listened to your T/T, with that cartridge, in Martin's system? That principle also applies with the Music First unit, which you're considering. Who knows which cartridge will provide the idea balance with it, sonically? It's a bit of a lottery....

In my view, one of the easiest ways of achieving the desired synergy is to use a cartridge and SUT from the same manufacturer. That way, you get the benefits of them both being designed (and voiced) together from the ground up...

It's not simply about electrical matching, but more importantly the respective 'sonic signatures' of the cartridge, and the transformers used in the SUT, synergising together, in order to achieve the right sound balance. The last thing you want is an inherently toppy sounding SUT, paired with a similarly voiced cartridge (or the opposite), and no amount of fiddling with gain or loading values will sort such a fundamental imbalance.

With my extensive experimenting recently with various SUT, before settling on the Ortofon, I found this aspect of 'voicing' the SUT to the cartridge, out with of more prosaic considerations, such as gain and loading, absolutely crucial to achieving the most musical sounding results. Since you have an Ortofon cartridge, I would urge you to consider Ortofon's own top-of-the-range SUT, the ST-80SE, which I myself use:

Trust me, it sounds absolutely fabulous with my SPU, and also a Cadenza Bronze, I've heard it with, and I suspect that your own Ortofon cartridge would love it, too. Anyway, it's just another option for you to consider. If you fancy popping up for a listen, when you get back home, just let me know

Marco.

I heard Martin's SUT and Whest Preamp in my place into my Naim 82/500/Isobariks
Both the my Technics and the LP12 with different set ups both sounded wonderful
They made a tremendous difference
Martin's Technics set up sounded better but not by the same huge amount made by the SUT and Phono Preamp
So now I am in a quandry.
My next logical step is to get hold of a good SUT and Preamp with all else staying the same.
More complicated and way more time consuming - I think - is to audition the whole chain Cart-arm-SUT-Phono preamp, possibly others
I like to do this one box at a time - but I also want a revealing system

[The Grand Wazoo]

I've heard the Music First unit & compared it to Bent Audio Mu's which were also made with S&B transformers. My opinion was that it's flexibility was it's biggest downfall. The Bents are set to what you need them to be (though you can change things if you need to), whereas the MF's switched facilities hobbled the thing badly.