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Thread: Superclock in SL-1210

  1. #31
    Join Date: Dec 2009

    Location: Texas

    Posts: 46
    I'm Patrick.

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    Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The phase noise of the reference will be reduced by 20*log N, where N is the integer division rate. If the division ratio is 1000 (servo running at 400 Hz), you have picked up 80 dB of noise reduction. You are now into the noise floor.

    5 PPM of short-term drift might be 20 Hz, at 4 MHz. But it is now 0.002 Hz, at 400 Hz. Do you think you will hear that much speed variation?

  2. #32
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,912
    I'm Simon.

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    I guess it depends on the pattern of error, entirely random error at such a low level is going to be inaudible but if you up the level a little and find out the error is modulated by something else on the board then it'll become audible much sooner than one might expect.

    I know having worked through the circuit on my Hercules board that I'm better spending my time working the power supply for the transistors that drive the two sine waves than I am wasting money on better XO or power supplies for the XO.

  3. #33
    MartinT Guest

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    We know from CD player upgrades that clock stability is critical to good sound. My old Sony SCD-1 flagship SACD player had battleship construction, quality PCBs and compartmentalised shielding. However, a Superclock 2 from Audiocom certainly made a considerable difference in both CD and SACD replay.

    The jitter reductions may be small but they are audible. I know that the above is clocking data and for the Techie we are talking about rotational noise. I'm not saying I know there will be an improvement: I'm saying I want to try it.

  4. #34
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: So Cal

    Posts: 139
    I'm Pete.

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    Martin,

    Many upgrades accepted today, were ridiculed at the time as not possibly being capable of making a difference. I say go for it! It couldn't hurt to try and see what happens.
    Hearing is believing

    SL-1210 Mk5 w/Mike New Platter/bearing/armboard; Hynes SR5 DIY PSU;
    Zyx Airy3X; SME V; Hashimoto HM7 SUT; CJ PR15MkII Phono w/teflon caps.

    Modwright LS36.5 Dual Mono Preamp & KWA 150 amp > Paradigm Ref 100 v.4s

  5. #35
    Join Date: Dec 2009

    Location: Texas

    Posts: 46
    I'm Patrick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinT View Post
    We know from CD player upgrades that clock stability is critical to good sound. My old Sony SCD-1 flagship SACD player had battleship construction, quality PCBs and compartmentalised shielding. However, a Superclock 2 from Audiocom certainly made a considerable difference in both CD and SACD replay.

    The jitter reductions may be small but they are audible. I know that the above is clocking data and for the Techie we are talking about rotational noise. I'm not saying I know there will be an improvement: I'm saying I want to try it.
    You can not equate the amount of jitter, in your CDP, to the amount of jitter one will have, after it is run through a divider chain.

    1.) You are not going to find a crystal at that frequency.

    2.) You will not be able to measure any change in jitter/phase noise. Not only because you do not have the gear (it costs many thousands of dollars), but because it is going to be in the noise level.

    3.) Your money..........and what do I know............enjoy!

    Over and out.

  6. #36
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Scotland

    Posts: 366
    I'm Paul.

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    I seem to recall someone telling me that regulators that were designed to operate up to 100 MHz for digital circuitry were a waste of time as at these frequencies the type and position of capacitors in the circuit power lines were the important issue. The capacitors are important but so is the regulator. I have sold thousands of these regulators, so far, with a 56 day return if not satisfied guarantee. I think people are pleased with the improvements these regulators have made, as they are not being returned. If they were making no improvements I would have a very large box full of rejects by now.

    Several of my friends over the years have shown the ability to discern perfect pitch just by listening to a note. They could tell if the note was off pitch by small amounts. In the past our survival in the wild was based on a keen sense of sight and hearing. Being able to judge distance and direction accurately could mean the difference between life, or death, at the hands of a predator. The human brain is a very complex organ that is capable of processing sensory input in a way that focuses on important data and ignores unimportant data. Many have reported hearing signal events buried in the noise floor.

    There are plenty of examples of audio equipment with exemplary measurements that do not convey music in a comprehensible way. On balance I will take what I hear over measurements every time.

    Regards
    Paul
    Paul Hynes Design
    paulhynesdesign.com
    High Performance Power Supply upgrades
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16655

  7. #37
    MartinT Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hynes View Post
    On balance I will take what I hear over measurements every time.
    Indeed, Paul, and yet you are an engineer. As I have said to many others over the years, there is no conflict of interest!

  8. #38
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Scotland

    Posts: 366
    I'm Paul.

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    There should not be a conflict of interest but I think you will be saying this to many more over the coming years.
    Paul Hynes Design
    paulhynesdesign.com
    High Performance Power Supply upgrades
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16655

  9. #39
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 96,344
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Thumbs up Paul tells it exactly as it is.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hynes View Post
    I seem to recall someone telling me that regulators that were designed to operate up to 100 MHz for digital circuitry were a waste of time as at these frequencies the type and position of capacitors in the circuit power lines were the important issue. The capacitors are important but so is the regulator. I have sold thousands of these regulators, so far, with a 56 day return if not satisfied guarantee. I think people are pleased with the improvements these regulators have made, as they are not being returned. If they were making no improvements I would have a very large box full of rejects by now.

    Several of my friends over the years have shown the ability to discern perfect pitch just by listening to a note. They could tell if the note was off pitch by small amounts. In the past our survival in the wild was based on a keen sense of sight and hearing. Being able to judge distance and direction accurately could mean the difference between life, or death, at the hands of a predator. The human brain is a very complex organ that is capable of processing sensory input in a way that focuses on important data and ignores unimportant data. Many have reported hearing signal events buried in the noise floor.

    There are plenty of examples of audio equipment with exemplary measurements that do not convey music in a comprehensible way. On balance I will take what I hear over measurements every time.
    Bloody hell - what an amazing post!!!

    I concur completely

    It's going right into Our Ethos for permanent reference!

    Marco.
    "Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears. - John Lennon

    Protect your CIVIL RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE INTRODUCED FOR COVID-19!

  10. #40
    Join Date: Dec 2009

    Location: Texas

    Posts: 46
    I'm Patrick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Hynes View Post
    I seem to recall someone telling me that regulators that were designed to operate up to 100 MHz for digital circuitry were a waste of time as at these frequencies the type and position of capacitors in the circuit power lines were the important issue.
    They did? Don't they realize regulators don't work at 100MHz? Yeah, that is why the caps are needed. But regulators regulate, and caps bypass. Both are important, but have much different jobs.

    I bet they also think all caps are the same, because it is 100 MHz. Or any other frequency, as well. Oh, well........

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