PSU's for Technics Deck - Sonic Benefits Please

[RobbieGong]

Hi guys - I've decided to add another thread in response to loads of stuf regarding external PSU's for the Technics turntable that a number of us have been digesting for some time. There are now a good number of PSU's and PSU options including make your own, Richards Vantage options, Timestep, Paul Hynes, Audio Fidelity, Origin Live, Mains Cables R Us etc. The various threads have resulted in a lot of technical info regarding the internals, talk of 'chokes' and all sorts of tec speak which although useful doesn't necessarily help the regular Joe like myself who is generally influenced by info re: sonic benefits, changes, influences to the sound etc. (After all, these things are a fair outlay for most of us) So what have people found to be the benefits to overall presentation or not as the case may be??

I've lifted the following from a previous AOS PSU related thread, posted yesterday which says quote:
I'm with the people who trust their ears so I'm not asking for measurements but when can someone post some before/after PSU-mod sound files? I can post some recordings I've made of my Technics with the stock PSU and the CD release of the same track for comparison and I reckon the vinyl recordings sound better. I'm not convinced an external PSU is going to add anything but I'd love to hear evidence to the contrary.

As a result could any AOS members please offer up their own experiences of any sonic benefits or changes, positive or otherwise, including the PSU used which I think could be pretty useful to a lot of us and I guess pretty interesting too. Some of us have 'upgraded' from say Timestep to Paul Hynes etc - what were the sonic changes experienced ? Obviously any comments are general as we are aware that this is all subjective and like all things hifi, fairly system dependant. As I say comments are likely to be interesting and useful all the same. If we could keep to sonics that would be great as we've already covered a lot of ground from a technical aspect I think - Thanks and here we go

[MartinT]

I wrote about my Paul Hynes SR5-21 from this post onwards:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showp...7&postcount=37

[RobbieGong]

Thanks Martin

[RobbieGong]

A large number of psu's out there, numerous folk out there like me curious as to what others have found any of these external psu's have added to the sonic presentation. We can't really try them, there not cheap (£400 maybe £500+) and only Martin has expressed his findings. Ok, I can only assume that the changes are not that big, obvious or so subtle they are hard to define ? - Not particularly encouraging for techy modders who were already not in a hurry to spend this sort of money over other improvements ie: good cartridge, isonoe feet, mat etc and an awful lot of tunes ! without even some encouraging reviews / recommendations - At least some !! As I've already said, I can only assume........................

[MartinT]

Sorry you're not getting the postings here, Robbie, but do try using the search facility as there are reams of material on Techie power supplies. There is no doubt that the overwhelming experiences are positive with improvements ranging from significant to bloody hell!

The Technics tends to respond to upgrades such as the PSU and bearing very well, improving on its base benefits of timing and rhythm with greatly uplifted dynamics, better tonal neutrality and a very structural, solid feel to music compared with many belt drive decks. I'll leave others to speak of their findings, but please do take a look around as the wealth of material is very rich.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I bought the original timestep when it was basically the only option ...
It was a stunning upgrade!
This is a few years back now so this is all distant memory, but I do remember being stunned by the difference!
Not by any stretch was it subtle!
The sound was significantly more open!

I don't know much about this sort of thing but I always got the impression that a lot of the difference was down to having the psu outside of the turntable ...
I'm sure a lot of people will jump on me here and tell me not to speculate when I didn't hear any of the other options, but I'd bet the difference between different psu's is a lot less than the difference between having and internal and external psu!
With that in mind, I have suggested to people outside of the forum to try and just externalise the current psu... It wouldnt cost hardly anything, you just need to find someone to tell you how to do it ... Safely ...

I'm well out of the techie loop now having sold mine a while ago, and frankly I always get a little fearful posting in techie threads ... So sorry if this treads on any toes or is old ground ... Just thought I'd chuck it in there as budget seems to be a concern!

[Marco]

You're absolutely right, Hamish.

The biggest difference fitting an external PSU makes is in removing that magnetic field-inducing, sonically degrading, big lump of ferrous metal (known as the PSU) from underneath the Techy platter, providing of course that it is removed, as some folk who fit a Timestep PSU, or whatever, merely disable the stock PSU and leave it in situ, thereby virtually negating the point of doing the job in the first place!!

For details of how to externalise the stock Techy PSU, see Sonddek's post here (#18): http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...?t=8118&page=2

However, externalising the PSU aside, there are still major sonic gains to be had by employing the use of high-quality off-board PSUs, like the Vantage Audio or Paul Hynes SR5, simply because of the superior quality of the components used, particularly the huge over-specified transformers, in the case of the Paul Hynes.

It's about achieving extremely effective noise reduction and allowing the superb Technics D/D motor to realise its full potential - and that's where top-notch external PSUs come into their own.

Let's not forget that the Techy was built to a price, so a turntable which cost £500 new is not going to have £500 worth of power supply inside it, is it?

Robert, trust me, fitting the likes of a Vantage Audio or SR5 PSU, is one of the most fundamental huge upgrades you can do to an SL-1200/1210!

Marco.

[drrd]

Still for all the opinions I can't find any sound files posted to demonstrate the improvements of an external PSU. As I mentioned in one of the many other PSU threads my deck sounds the same with the power off or on and even with a 70db gain phono amp there is no audible hum when moving the arm over the deck. I plug everything into an Equitech balanced transformer so that may explain my findings and in that case I'm sorted. I recall 20 years ago a friend used to dj with Technics decks that there was audible hum as you moved the tonearm over the platter (towards the internal transformer) and this was with a MM so much less gain.

[Marco]

Hi Russell,

You're not likely to get many (if any) sound files "demonstrating" the difference because:

A) People who fit an external PSU just want to get the job done ASAP, without messing around recording files with their T/Ts with and without and external PSU, to post on forums, and once the stock PSU is removed, there's no quick way of going back.

B) Recorded files prove very little and as such are not reliable as definitive judgement criteria, as you'll have noticed if you've listened to some of the 'needle-drops' posted elsewhere, where the sound processed digitally through a computer (and thus corrupting the analogue signal to a degree) does not accurately resemble how T/Ts *actually* sound 'live' in someone's system.

Therefore the files you're looking for would likely tell you very little.

Also, it's not really about reducing hum - it's about removing a magnetic field from around the operating area of the cartridge above, particularly if it's a low-output MC design, as the field generated by the PSU underneath the Techy platter, interferes with the high-frequency response of the cartridge, making it sound 'veiled' and 'thick', in comparison to how the cartridge would sound if the PSU (and its associated magnetic field) wasn't there.

Removing the ferrous PSU from underneath the platter (and the magnetic field with it) 'frees-up' the high-frequency response of the cartridge and allows it to 'breathe', and the resulting sonic benefits are far from subtle!

However, the best way of assessing this for yourself is to move from pontificating, to having actual practical experience and using your own ears... *That* is where you will find your proof.

Most external T/T PSU manufacturers offer a money back guarantee, so try it yourself and report back, or spend the rest of your life farting about looking for non-existent 'proof' and wondering "What if?" The choice is yours!

Marco.

[MartinT]

Still for all the opinions I can't find any sound files posted to demonstrate the improvements of an external PSU. As I mentioned in one of the many other PSU threads my deck sounds the same with the power off or on and even with a 70db gain phono amp there is no audible hum when moving the arm over the deck.

It's not about removing hum, Russell. That would be a rather basic problem and we are talking about much more fundamental changes to the deck's music making abilities. As Marco says, moving the 'iron' from under the platter helps, but also bypassing that dreadful regulator transistor bolted to the chassis by feeding +21V direct to the PCB makes a big difference to the ripple seen by the motor drive electronics.

The fact that the Timestep, SR3 and SR5 all had increasingly improved detail, dynamics, soundstage, air and bass impact proved to me that PSU regulation (the ability to hold voltage no matter what the current draw) is an important criterion and makes it worthwhile buying the best you can.

I can't give you before and after needle drops to listen to, but I doubt that converting the precious analogue signal to digital would give you the full story anyway. What I can say is that adding an external PSU will make your jaw drop, in a way that many of us have already experienced. You may have to make a leap of faith - or else find one of us that lives close to you and come and have a listen