The long and the short of it is ...... err, what exactly?

[Neil McCauley]

Hello all.

For the benefit of my current customers and in the hope of providing practical guidance for future customers and interested ‘civilians’ alike – I am gathering evidence to support and with equal vigour to oppose the view that long interconnects + short loudspeaker cables (between preamp and 2 x mono power amps) offers a superior sound to the more conventional short interconnects + long loudspeaker lines approach.

What I'm hoping for is practical information regarding the changes (either way) and if those changes translated into consistent sonic improvements.

I’ve seen the ‘theory’ debated elsewhere but I haven't been unable to source observations from anyone (other than myself, and I don’t count in this) who has experimented in this way.

All and any observations will be gratefully received, not just by me but from others to whom I might act as a conduit re this.

Thank you

PS

Saw Steve Cropper in concert last night in little ‘ol Edmonton in North London. No wonder he’s often voted the finest guitarist alive today. This guy knows all about Pace, Rhythm and Timing. The Salisbury Mujahadeen invented PRaT did they? As David Essex so rightly sang: "I don't fink so."

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[Colinx]

I can only give my preference, having tried setting my system up in a few ways. I must also point out that I do not think they type of cable used matters, providing it is well made and sufficient size for the length being used for speaker cable.

The best overall sound for me was achieved by having the equipment stand well out of the way, rather than between the speakers. This being the case, I was left with two options to check into, either having the stand on a side wall, long interconnects, placing the amps behind the speakers and short speaker cables, or moving the rack to the other end of the room, short interconnects and long speaker leads. I tried the side wall placement both ways, as I had the cables available to do so.

The difference between speaker cable and interconnect cable lengths was to a great extent negligible, other than the change in speaker cable core size, as in moving from around 2mm to 4mm brought noticeable improvements to the sound.

The biggest improvement was the placement of the stand. The simple act of taking it away, (well away) from the area of the speakers was marked. Taking it away from ‘’centre stage’’ as it where to the side of the room improved the sound, moving the stand to the other end of the room improved the sound even more. Given that the side of the room placement was just plain messy visually and practically meant that the end of room placement sounded better was a bonus. It also meant that I needed 11m leads to be able to it. As I am sure you can accept, 11m interconnects are not exactly easy to lay hands on, so I just settled on the Long speaker leads.

I suppose what I am saying is that the placement of the equipment stand in relationship to the speaker plane/listening zone will have more bearing on how the system sounds than the length of cable used, providing the cable lengths remain sensible

[Marco]

I am gathering evidence to support and with equal vigour to oppose the view that long interconnects + short loudspeaker cables (between preamp and 2 x mono power amps) offers a superior sound to the more conventional short interconnects + long loudspeaker lines approach.

Howard,

Why not just have short interconnects and short speaker cable and get the best of both worlds?

I'm being somewhat facetious, of course, but if you position the components on a rack in between but well in front of the speakers (right in between is a sonic no-no as Colin has pointed out, but sufficiently in front of the rack is absolutely fine) with the speakers as close to the equipment as is sonically acceptable then the above can easily be achieved.

However, of course, it all depends on positional restrictions with the room itself vis-à-vis domestic harmony, so I guess that's what this conundrum is really all about.

One thing I've always wanted to try is having the speakers in a different room altogether from the equipment, say in a room next door. One could do it in such a way that the speakers in the room next door are backing on to the wall where the equipment is in the opposite room, to keep the speaker cable as short as possible, and then feed it through the wall to the system. Having speakers in the same room as the equipment, with all the vibrations they chuck into the room and hence also into the equipment, must be one of the most sonically detrimental things most of us do, of course that horrible thing called practicality usually always wins...

Has anyone ever tried this, though, and compared the difference?

Marco.

[Peter Stockwell]

Howard,

Why not just have short interconnects and short speaker cable and get the best of both worlds?

In a Naim system, empirically, I found 7m NACA5 better than old 5m NACA5, I'm sure it was because I threw the goldfich out with the fishtank

[Marco]

Peter, if I remember correctly (it's a long time now since I've used NACA5, and indeed Naim gear) there is a minimum length to use NACA5 for optimum performance. You may have just hit that zone.

If not, goodness knows what else it was - there are so many variables it's virtually impossible to reach a meaningful explanation.

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Good question Howard,
I agree with Colin completely about the equipment as far away as possible. My gear's 24 feet away & 4 feet behind the sofa - much more significant than cable lengths.

But........I tried all the permutations I could think of & have settled on long interconnects & short(ish) speaker cables. However, this was not for any reason of this sounding better than the other way, as I couldn't detect a difference. The reason was for neatness & cost - bi-amping means I need much more speaker cable than interconnect. I am perfectly capable of hearing differences between cables, but failed to do so here.

I make up my own cables from a stock of stuff I own so 30 feet or so is no problem!!

What intrigues me more is why I can't tell the difference between speaker cable pairs of different lengths (in my system) yet everyone I ever spoke to who tried to sell me cables in the past assured me of the end of the world as we know it if I ever should consider such an idea...hmmm

[Marco]

TGW,

What intrigues me more is why I can't tell the difference between speaker cable pairs of different lengths (in my system) yet everyone I ever spoke to who tried to sell me cables in the past assured me of the end of the world as we know it if I ever should consider such an idea...hmmm

From experience it's simply the fact that unless you're using really crap badly designed cable then you'd probably have to use about a mile of the stuff before any detectable (by ear) sonic degradation would occur, depending of course on the amplifier(s) being used. Some are fussier in their relationship with speaker cable than others.

I also agree with Colin and you about equipment being positioned away from speakers; indeed this is how I have things in my own set-up. However, I have also heard excellent results with positioning as I've described earlier. There are no set rules with regard to system set-up - experiment and see what works best in your particular room, and with your speakers.

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

if you position the components on a rack in between and just in front of the speakers (right in between is a sonic no-no as Colin has pointed out, but in front of the rack is absolutely fine)

Marco.

Speakers either side of the rack, but just in front of it is absolutely fine????

Not in my experience it's not - Get the gear out of the way if you possibly can.

In my old house I used to do this and I thought it sounded good. Then we moved the room around a bit and put the gear with longer cables into a little room with a wide opening that adjoined the main room (you could say the room was L-shaped but that would be streching it a bit).

This change was better than any single component change I've ever made.

[Marco]

Speakers either side of the rack, but just in front of it is absolutely fine????

Not in my experience it's not - Get the gear out of the way if you possibly can.

See my last reply

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I just did