HD800s & Graham Slee Solo Ultra Linear good bedfellows?

I have had this pair for a few weeks now connected to various sources and have not been able to get what I would describe as a listenable combination. I've used the following as sources:

MacBook Pro C2D into all of the DACs
Meridian 200 transport into all of the DACs
Meridian 203 DAC
Beresford 7510
DPA Bigger Bit
Arcam DV88 using both analogue output and digital into all tha DACs

With any of these DACs I find the sound so harsh I can't even listen to it. If I use HD650s into the GS I get a very nice rich and detailed sound. If I plug the HD800s into the Beresford I get a reasonable balance if a little muddled.

Have I bought a poor combination or am I missing a trick here. Any advice would be gratefully received.

By the way, I'm getting an M2Tech Young on loan tomorrow but with all the experiments I've tried, I'm not sure this is going to help much.

Regards,


Colin

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Originally Posted by Millzee60

I have had this pair for a few weeks now connected to various sources and have not been able to get what I would describe as a listenable combination. I've used the following as sources:

MacBook Pro C2D into all of the DACs
Meridian 200 transport into all of the DACs
Meridian 203 DAC
Beresford 7510
DPA Bigger Bit
Arcam DV88 using both analogue output and digital into all tha DACs

With any of these DACs I find the sound so harsh I can't even listen to it. If I use HD650s into the GS I get a very nice rich and detailed sound. If I plug the HD800s into the Beresford I get a reasonable balance if a little muddled.

Have I bought a poor combination or am I missing a trick here. Any advice would be gratefully received.

By the way, I'm getting an M2Tech Young on loan tomorrow but with all the experiments I've tried, I'm not sure this is going to help much.

Regards,

Colin

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I was about to say that the HD650 may be a better paring with the GS.

The Burson HD160 is reported to work well with the HD800's.

http://www.headfonia.com/burson-ha-1...s-ambs-beta22/

http://bursonaudioblog.blogspot.com/...er-ha-160.html

If you ever decide to sell your GS, pop me a PM, I have the M-Stage but might be tempted to upgrade :¬)

Another option would be the Burson 160D, which is the amp plus an integrated DAC. Very good user reviews (along with the glowing 6moons one). Very tempted by this unit myself still.

You might be surprised by the Young.

Edit: Why not sell the HD800 and opt for the HD650, if they are delivering the sound you require?

Ross, if you are thinking of selling the M-Stage let me know. I have just sold my X-Cans, so don't have a headamp right now and would be interested to try the M-Stage? ;)

(Colin, I found the HD800's need to be paired correctly - I had a pair on loan and tried them with a few amps, but found there was a fine line between them being refined or too detailed/bright. However, they really are fantastic headphones and when funds allow, I will buy some and sell my HD650's. I think you maybe need to consider auditioning some other headamps, to get a comparison with the GS, as it's very possible the pairing is what's disagreeable to you and not the DAC?)

The HD800 is a bit of a handful, which is why I have been playing about with a modified Gator in order to get the most out of my HD800. I am not quite satisfied yet, but I am getting there.
The TC-7510 is not designed to handle the HD800 so no marks for trying it..
Consider the D70000 from Denon as a viable alternative to the HD800. It's a lot less harsh and has far better deep down bass. I tend to listen to the D7000 a lot more than to the HD800 with my own production DACs.

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Originally Posted by GreatGig

Ross, if you are thinking of selling the M-Stage let me know. I have just sold my X-Cans, so don't have a headamp right now and would be interested to try the M-Stage? ;)

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It's a home audition from Amp City my friend, not sure if it will be kept as I've not even heard it yet, it arrives tomorrow (already thinking of upgrading!) :doh:

All good advice everyone. New DAC and new cans and I'll be sorted:)

Seriously though, it would seem that the HD800s are the problem. I'll play a little more and then either look for something else to partner them or throw in the towel and get some HD650s or look at the D7000s.

Regards,


Colin.

Yoga, I'll PM you if I decide to get rid of the GS.

The HD650 no longer makes the grade for high end listening in my set up. The amount of extra detail and dynamics I can pick up with the HD800 and D7000 is well clear of the HD650, and K701 for that matter.
Since you are in London, why not pop by one day with your HD800 and give it a try on my Gatorized Caiman?

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Originally Posted by Millzee60

Seriously though, it would seem that the HD800s are the problem. I'll play a little more and then either look for something else to partner them or throw in the towel and get some HD650s or look at the D7000s.

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I'll swap you my mint HD650's for your 800's :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by GreatGig

I'll swap you my mint HD650's for your 800's :eyebrows:

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As funny as that is, I'm actually considering a similar offer from a fella at work :). We swapped for a week and with certain reservations I preferred the 650s. He was using a 7520 and seemed to like the result. I'll see if he still thinks the same now that he's got his 650s back.

Another option are the Audeze LCD-2's. £795. Very much preferred over the HD800's over at HeadFi.

http://www.head-fi.org/products/aude...phones/reviews

6 Moons favourite can:

http://sixmoons.com/audioreviews/audeze/1.html

The same with Headphonista

http://www.headphonista.com/audeze-lcd-2/

More comparisons with the HD800:

http://www.headfonia.com/audeze-lcd-2-impressions/

I had the HD800 for almost two years and was happy with it first with the Solo SRG headphone amp, and later with the Solo Ultra Linear amp.

That is until I bought the Audeze LCD-2. I sold off my HD800 after a week of comparing both headphones.

HD800 has wider soundstage and slightly better imaging. But the LCD-2 is lusher, much better bass, more musical...and just more fun.

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Originally Posted by etphonehome

HD800 has wider soundstage and slightly better imaging. But the LCD-2 is lusher, much better bass, more musical...and just more fun.

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This sounds exactly like what I'm looking for. Are you still partnering them with the ultra linear? I was thinking of selling both the amp and cans.

I'm listening to the M2Tech Young at the moment. Can't really comment on the sound as I really don't like the HD800s. The Young is on loan for a demo but it seems to be brand new so I can't really tell what it will sound like when it runs in. At the moment though I'm hard pushed to tell the difference between this and the TC 7510 (also on loan). More listening required.

Btw, when I bought the cans and amp I got a free pair of half metre Chord chameleon interconnects. As it happens, these seem to be the biggest cause of my problems. I recognise that interconnects can make a (slight in my opinion) difference but these were truly awful. I can't believe they are fundamentally that bad, a £2.50 lead from Maplin sounded better, so I guess there is some kind of compatibility issue here.

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Originally Posted by Yoga

Another option would be the Burson 160D, which is the amp plus an integrated DAC. Very good user reviews (along with the glowing 6moons one). Very tempted by this unit myself still.

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Yes, when I first embarked on my quest for a headphone amp I was looking at the 160. I'm in a mind to replace the headphones but maybe the answer is the 160D. :rolleyes: Boy this is hard!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StanleyB

The HD650 no longer makes the grade for high end listening in my set up. The amount of extra detail and dynamics I can pick up with the HD800 and D7000 is well clear of the HD650, and K701 for that matter.
Since you are in London, why not pop by one day with your HD800 and give it a try on my Gatorized Caiman?

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This is very good on you. Everything I've seen in this and other forums shows you provide very good service and this is another example. When I've finished with the Young I have on load atm, I'll PM you to try and arrange something before I make any decision.

Between you and me, I know of at least 10 HD800 owners who are running a Gatorized Caiman.

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Originally Posted by Millzee60

Yes, when I first embarked on my quest for a headphone amp I was looking at the 160. I'm in a mind to replace the headphones but maybe the answer is the 160D. :rolleyes: Boy this is hard!

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The 160D and LCD-2 combination is very highly regarded. Here's a post to whet your appetite (from an experienced speaker designer nonetheless)...

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/...5#post_7287071

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Originally Posted by Millzee60

This sounds exactly like what I'm looking for. Are you still partnering them with the ultra linear? I was thinking of selling both the amp and cans.

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Yes, I am still using the LCD-2 / Ultra Linear Combo.

I have actually tried the LCD-2 on Burson 160D, EAR HP-4, Beyer A1, and Leben CS300X. Not really impressed with Burson 160D and EAR HP-4 with the LCD-2. Much better with the Beyer A1 and CS300X. But I still prefer the Ultra Linear.

But when I auditioned these amps, they were all through different sources and interconnects.

I have my Ultra Linear running from a tube pre-amp, Trigon Advance, Technics M5G (or Cambridge Audio 740C).

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Originally Posted by etphonehome

Yes, I am still using the LCD-2 / Ultra Linear Combo.

I have actually tried the LCD-2 on Burson 160D, EAR HP-4, Beyer A1, and Leben CS300X. Not really impressed with Burson 160D and EAR HP-4 with the LCD-2.

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Interesting, there are many other reports of this is a 'perfect pairing'. It's all subjective of course - could you go a bit deeper?

Are you using the PSU1 with your GS UL?

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Originally Posted by Yoga

Interesting, there are many other reports of this is a 'perfect pairing'. It's all subjective of course - could you go a bit deeper?

Are you using the PSU1 with your GS UL?

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I brought my LCD-2 to a friend's hifi store which carries the Burson. It was connected to the Trigon Recall cdp. It did not have the lushness and layering I am getting from the Solo UL. But then this is my own opinion based on what I heard; maybe I have a hearing defect :(

Yes, I am using the PSU-1 with the UL.

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Originally Posted by etphonehome

I brought my LCD-2 to a friend's hifi store which carries the Burson. It was connected to the Trigon Recall cdp. It did not have the lushness and layering I am getting from the Solo UL. But then this is my own opinion based on what I heard; maybe I have a hearing defect :(

Yes, I am using the PSU-1 with the UL.

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We each hear things differently, there's no right or wrong :¬)

The bad news is that it makes me want the GSUL with PSU1, which is £600!

The GSUL is not a very popular amp in Head-Fi...I think not many have actually heard it. But I know at least 3 members in another forum who are very happy with the GSUL+LCD2 combo.

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Originally Posted by etphonehome

The GSUL is not a very popular amp in Head-Fi...I think not many have actually heard it. But I know at least 3 members in another forum who are very happy with the GSUL+LCD2 combo.

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Which forum, out of interest?

Yeah, that's the thing about HeadFi, predominately US peeps which means a lot of the great gear they discuss (Woo Audio, Anedio D1, Schiit Lyr, EE Minimax, LCD-2s etc.) is expensive to source over here.

The GSP forum and a local Singapore forum:

http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/
www.sgheadphones.com

This is a bit stale now, but I don't pop in here that often these days.
To the OP - IME the GS headamps take a good 500 - 600 hrs to fully "burn in" - no idea why, but it is definitely noticeable and has been commented on many times by experienced users.
The HD800 will also take a good while to loosen up fully.
Finally, cables DO make a difference and the wrong pair will give the symptoms you describe. A good all rounder is the VDH First Ultimate - not cheap - but very neutral.
At the other end of the scale, Blue Jeans LC-1 are quite OK, although they can be a little harsh when new - they also need a few hundred hours to soften up.
Bass seems often the last thing to develop fully with GS amps - again IME, but I think you will find that Miguel (MrArroyo) would also agree with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Millzee60

This is very good on you. Everything I've seen in this and other forums shows you provide very good service and this is another example. When I've finished with the Young I have on load atm, I'll PM you to try and arrange something before I make any decision.

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It was a pleasure to meet up with you last night Colin:). I hope you weren't overwhelmed with my large collection of headphones;).

I was surprised that the Ross Andrews headamp cost so much, but that the modified Gator with THS4032 opamp and Rubycon/WIMA caps turned out the have the better of it. Especially when paired with the D7000. It's my main listening combi, but the SA5000 is also regularly used.
If there are any interests I'll publish details on how to mod the Gator with those alternative parts. Other high end headphone users might be interested in the extra performance.

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Originally Posted by Yoga

We each hear things differently, there's no right or wrong :¬)

The bad news is that it makes me want the GSUL with PSU1, which is £600!

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or you could get the amp and an alternative psu like mine!

I tried to post this the other night but failed. Here goes again ...

I've just returned from a very interesting visit to Stan this evening. And I'd like to say thank you to him for being truly helpful with absolutely no pressure to buy anything.

I went along to compare the D7000s to my HD800s when connected to a variety of sources. I'd had the GS UL connected via a pair of chord chameleon interconnects to a standard Caiman, a Caiman with a modified Gator board and an experimental rig. The actual source was a Mac C2D laptop connected via an optical cable.

To my ears the D7000s are the ones I should have. I can understand why Stan regards them so highly. While base lines might not be as easy to follow compared to the HD800s, they are detailed and full, no sign of harshness. Vocals have a close and involving sound which I find very attractive. Curiously the built in headphone amp sounded better than the GS UL which seemed vailed and lacking detail by comparison.

For me the modified gator board with the D7000s plugged into the DAC gave the best results. The modified board is a bit lighter than the standard which brings out detail and cleans up the bass a little without losing any weight or drive, a neat trick :)

I now have to get hold of a pair of LCD2s before making a final decision but it looks like both senns and the GS UL will have to go :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Millzee60

I tried to post this the other night but failed. Here goes again ...

I've just returned from a very interesting visit to Stan this evening. And I'd like to say thank you to him for being truly helpful with absolutely no pressure to buy anything.

I went along to compare the D7000s to my HD800s when connected to a variety of sources. I'd had the GS UL connected via a pair of chord chameleon interconnects to a standard Caiman, a Caiman with a modified Gator board and an experimental rig. The actual source was a Mac C2D laptop connected via an optical cable.

To my ears the D7000s are the ones I should have. I can understand why Stan regards them so highly. While base lines might not be as easy to follow compared to the HD800s, they are detailed and full, no sign of harshness. Vocals have a close and involving sound which I find very attractive. Curiously the built in headphone amp sounded better than the GS UL which seemed vailed and lacking detail by comparison.

For me the modified gator board with the D7000s plugged into the DAC gave the best results. The modified board is a bit lighter than the standard which brings out detail and cleans up the bass a little without losing any weight or drive, a neat trick :)

I now have to get hold of a pair of LCD2s before making a final decision but it looks like both senns and the GS UL will have to go :(

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i would like to hear this combo.
i cant believe the hpa on the caiman could out perform the solo ul.
i guess i will never know:scratch:

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Originally Posted by StanleyB

It was a pleasure to meet up with you last night Colin:). I hope you weren't overwhelmed with my large collection of headphones;).

I was surprised that the Ross Andrews headamp cost so much, but that the modified Gator with THS4032 opamp and Rubycon/WIMA caps turned out the have the better of it. Especially when paired with the D7000. It's my main listening combi, but the SA5000 is also regularly used.
If there are any interests I'll publish details on how to mod the Gator with those alternative parts. Other high end headphone users might be interested in the extra performance.

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how much would one of these units you speak of cost?
i am curious now.

I too was very surprised to prefer the built in headphone amp over the GS UL. It occurred to me that the interconnects may not have been up to the job or maybe the audio out was compromised in some way but Stan never suggested it was so I really don't know.

And yet I'm not quite ready to give up on the the GS yet. I think a change of headphone first and then see where we go from there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Millzee60

I too was very surprised to prefer the built in headphone amp over the GS UL. It occurred to me that the interconnects may not have been up to the job or maybe the audio out was compromised in some way but Stan never suggested it was so I really don't know.

And yet I'm not quite ready to give up on the the GS yet. I think a change of headphone first and then see where we go from there.

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i really like the sound of my current kit.
BUT, like trigger on only fools and horses, "i hear voices"
i read about some new headphone, dac or amp and i hear a voice that says
"i bet that sounds better than yours".
hence my intention to try a new dac (m2tech young)

i am also wanting to audition the lcd2.
where do you stop????

i hear another voice that says....
the d7000s sound good out of your ipod so why spend all this money??:doh::ner::doh:

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Originally Posted by oldson

i cant believe the hpa on the caiman could out perform the solo ul.

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Why not :scratch:? Is it because I charge so little for the Caiman or something else?

If you like the 7Ks, you simply must get in touch with Simon at HiFiSound and organise a loaner pair of LCD-2s before making the purchase :¬)

Have you tried the Matrix M-Stage with the HD800 - very similar to the BCL which is excellent with the HD800 (have both at home and Sennheiser always demo the HD800 with it). The HD800s were actually used in the development of the amp so the synergy is awesome.

The Woo Audio 6 also sounds fantastic, maybe lacking a touch in punch. The Elekit TU88R DIY kit is also a great option. Both are pretty hard to demo however.

The HD800 are a great pair of headphones once you find the right synergy - if you manage to do so it's definitely on par with the D7k or the LCD-2, if not technically better imo. Some people who have come home simply can't get on with it's sound signature and so another pair of cans may well be better - depends entirely on your own ears which makes it very difficult to stop auditioning indeed!

Zain

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Originally Posted by StanleyB

Why not :scratch:? Is it because I charge so little for the Caiman or something else?

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you got me there:scratch:

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Originally Posted by Yoga

If you like the 7Ks, you simply must get in touch with Simon at HiFiSound and organise a loaner pair of LCD-2s before making the purchase :¬)

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I joined the queue 4 weeks ago :) No idea how long it is.