Denon 103r - is it worth the aggro?

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Originally Posted by Marco

Lol... My comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Tom's views were closest in alignment with mine, apart from his liking for Lyras! :doh:;) I'll post something after breakfast.

One thing I will say, in the interim, is that *ONLY* get into the 103 thing if you're willing to go the whole hog, in terms of what's necessary to get these carts to sing (and btw, I won't be recommending an 'R', but something else), otherwise don't bother.

However, if you do what's needed, the effort will be well worth it. You've got the right T/T and arm, so it's a good start. More later! :cool:

Marco.

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Ha, I remember you saying that to me about the 1210.

I'm sure that you will give food for thought!

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Originally Posted by jandl100

The idea of Marco not being willing to express an opinion was kind of weird. :eek:
:lol:

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🤣

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Originally Posted by Scooby

Seconded. I've had stellar results from the 103R and know the cart well, having used it many times in different circumstances.

But then carts are so personal, and thenthere's all the set-up, arm matching, phono stage choice, deck etc etc etc.

Oliver: I'd say the only way you will know is to try. Other people's opinions are just as likely to match yours as they are to be diametrically opposed.

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As all things, personal experience is where the best judgement is found. Thanks Scooby

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I've never tried the Denon - not sure why. But I tend to get put off when there are too many iterations of something (like audio note). What I have experienced is a shibata tip and to be honest I wouldn't have one again - very very fussy about set up. the FG is much better in my opinion - equal detail retrieval but much easier to set up.

Oliver, I’ve heard a Van Den Hul retipped 103r that I thought very good, real boogie factor. Preferred it to a standard one.

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Originally Posted by farflungstar

I've never tried the Denon - not sure why. But I tend to get put off when there are too many iterations of something (like audio note). What I have experienced is a shibata tip and to be honest I wouldn't have one again - very very fussy about set up. the FG is much better in my opinion - equal detail retrieval but much easier to set up.

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I'd prefer a FG tip. No argument there.

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Originally Posted by Ali Tait

Oliver, I’ve heard a Van Den Hul retipped 103r that I thought very good, real boogie factor. Preferred it to a standard one.

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Thanks Ali, that's very interesting. More detail?

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I can see where you are aiming to get Oliver. You thought the R50 'warm and lacking in detail'. That is true to an extent, but very few MC's offer that amazing soundstage and mid transparency. The Denons don't, I've had half a dozen. Did you get a listen to Alan's R100? That has the 'good stuff', but is more neutral and very detailed. The imaging is fantastic. Finding one used is tricky though and the new revised version costs an arm and a leg!

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Originally Posted by walpurgis

I can see where you are aiming to get Oliver. You thought the R50 'warm and lacking in detail'. That is true to an extent, but very few MC's offer that amazing soundstage and mid transparency. The Denons don't, I've had half a dozen. Did you get a listen to Alan's R100? That has the 'good stuff', but is more neutral and very detailed. The imaging is fantastic. Finding one used is tricky though and the new revised version costs an arm and a leg!

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I can see it too Geoff but not sure it's attainable in my budget. I've just received news that the Ortofon Vienna will be with me on the 28/11/17 for a good listen.

They are different beasts no doubt.

I did have a listen to Alan's r100 and it's undoubtedly very very good but I haven't heard it on my TT in my house. So difficult to judge.

I'll give the Ortofon a real run out. See where it lies after that.

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Originally Posted by walpurgis

...but very few MC's offer that amazing soundstage and mid transparency. The Denons don't, I've had half a dozen.

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You'll only really get that from a Decca (when it works), but in terms of soundstage, Geoff, I'd have to wholeheartedly disagree about 103s, as when you get the BEST out of them (perhaps in your time using them, you didn't quite manage that?) the size of the soundstage they produce is positively cavernous!

Have you ever used a NOS vintage limited-edition 103 (M, SA, GL or C1), with a top-notch head amp (not SUT), through a top-notch valve MM stage? And of course with a high-mass arm (and/or headshell), on a top-notch direct-drive T/T? That's where the 'magic' lies - and all those ingredients have to be in place for it to work... ;)

Be with you shortly, Oliver. Just about finished my morning cappuccino and croissant!

Marco.