Setting Tracking Force

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03-04-2018, 16:32
RobbieGong

Setting Tracking Force

I'm setting tracking force with digital scale, should anti-skate be on or set to zero ?
03-04-2018, 16:35
prestonchipfryer

I always set the bias to zero when doing tracking force as I find the arm has a tendency to ''wander'' otherwise. :)
03-04-2018, 20:09
Barry

Quote:

Originally Posted by prestonchipfryer

I always set the bias to zero when doing tracking force as I find the arm has a tendency to ''wander'' otherwise. :)

Agreed. :)
03-04-2018, 20:12
Jimbo

I don't have any anti-skate set on mine when I change VTF.
03-04-2018, 22:10
worrasf

Anti skate should be off (0) when setting VTF.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
08-04-2018, 22:01
Simon75

Quote:

Originally Posted by worrasf

Anti skate should be off (0) when setting VTF.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Would this mean that the bias weight would be completely removed when setting the VTF for a tonearm such as the SME 3009?
08-04-2018, 22:03
Barry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon75

Would this mean that the bias weight would be completely removed when setting the VTF for a tonearm such as the SME 3009?

Yes, or at least lifted up so the nylon thread is slack.
08-04-2018, 22:13
Simon75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry

Yes, or at least lifted up so the nylon thread is slack.

Cheers. They don't tell you this kind of thing in the manual!
09-04-2018, 09:20
Mike Reed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon75

Cheers. They don't tell you this kind of thing in the manual!

Ah, but vertical tracking force can hardly be vertical with a sideways force acting on the arm. Probably wouldn't affect the tracking weight too much, but would make cuing onto scales a bit hit and miss (literally !).:)
09-04-2018, 09:32
walpurgis

Attempting to apply downforce with antiskating force still applied produces an angular force instead of a purely downwards one, meaning results cannot be accurate.
09-04-2018, 22:26
garrard

Quote:

Originally Posted by walpurgis

Attempting to apply downforce with antiskating force still applied produces an angular force instead of a purely downwards one, meaning results cannot be accurate.

In terms of the vertical force alone yes, but it does simulate the actual playing conditions, which may be more important. Either way, I don't think the error will be large enough for concern.
10-04-2018, 07:13
Mike Reed

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrard

In terms of the vertical force alone yes, but it does simulate the actual playing conditions, which may be more important. Either way, I don't think the error will be large enough for concern.

No it doesn't and I think you've missed the point here. Bias or anti-skate is a lateral force effective whilst in motion. VTF is just that; the two are separate entities. You may well be right in your assumption that the error would be negligible, but why would you want to risk losing your stylus by having two forces acting in tandem when you only need one to measure playing weight?
10-04-2018, 09:15
garrard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Reed

No it doesn't and I think you've missed the point here. Bias or anti-skate is a lateral force effective whilst in motion. VTF is just that; the two are separate entities. You may well be right in your assumption that the error would be negligible, but why would you want to risk losing your stylus by having two forces acting in tandem when you only need one to measure playing weight?

I don't think I missed the point. When the record is being played, both lateral and vertical forces are present anyway. It is only the vertical part that is specified, and is measured by the scale, so lateral forces won't matter. I have never used so much bias force that my stylus is in danger. That's way OTT.
10-04-2018, 09:16
garrard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Reed

No it doesn't and I think you've missed the point here. Bias or anti-skate is a lateral force effective whilst in motion. VTF is just that; the two are separate entities. You may well be right in your assumption that the error would be negligible, but why would you want to risk losing your stylus by having two forces acting in tandem when you only need one to measure playing weight?

I don't think I missed the point. When the record is being played, both lateral and vertical forces are present anyway. It is only the vertical part that is specified, and is measured by the scale, so lateral forces won't matter. I have never used so much bias force that my stylus is in danger. That's way OTT.
10-04-2018, 09:18
hifi_dave

I believe that Mike is referring to removing the bias when measuring the tracking weight on a scale and not during play. With bias applied, it might be difficult to physically place the stylus on the scale, without it skidding around.
10-04-2018, 11:35
Barry

Quote:

Originally Posted by hifi_dave

I believe that Mike is referring to removing the bias when measuring the tracking weight on a scale and not during play. With bias applied, it might be difficult to physically place the stylus on the scale, without it skidding around.

Precisely - as was mentioned in post #2.
10-04-2018, 11:54
garrard

Quote:

Originally Posted by hifi_dave

I believe that Mike is referring to removing the bias when measuring the tracking weight on a scale and not during play. With bias applied, it might be difficult to physically place the stylus on the scale, without it skidding around.

I have never experienced the slightest difficulty using a scale to measure tracking force and I never bother removing the bias. It is so small a force as to make no difference. It's just not noticeable. However, neither will it hurt, so whatever you prefer is fine.
10-04-2018, 13:27
Mike Reed

Quote:

Originally Posted by garrard

I have never experienced the slightest difficulty using a scale to measure tracking force and I never bother removing the bias.

Lucky you, but I wouldn't be so cavalier with my Urushi and Proteus ! I can't imagine anybody else being so either, with any higher end moving coil (or any decent cart., for that matter). With something mechanical like a Garrard or similar you'd be asking for trouble. The electronic scales may be more user-friendly but a stitch in time.........
10-04-2018, 15:23
Barry

If the stylus scales have a 'dimple' in the weighing platform for the stylus to sit in, then you could get away with it. But I have found the bias setting required is usually less than the 'calibrated' markings which are related to the VTF. Bias is best set up by ear with the stylus in the record groove, playing the record. The use of a mirror, or the blank section of a test record does not represent the same conditions in practice of a stylus playing in a record groove.

And for any cartridge costing over £1K, the risk is not worth it.