Why have so many good people left the site?
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Why have so many good people left the site?
Because I came back? :eek:
Times change. People drift in and out....
Good question and I'm in know doubt a good number of others ask exactly the same question.
Dont expect answers as sometimes things wont want to be said and other times people just go without saying why.
Either way it's a real shame when good and proper hifi guys leave a place you know they once loved and added much value to in that sense.
I think Abstract Chat and contentious topics havnt helped and in my view those things have all too often and sadly, dominated over the real reason we are all here, which is for the love of music and hifi.
Some may say or fell, as I do, that we've lost our way and need to get back to the heart of it, as I've said, music and hifi, we've seen the 'other stuf' get in the way all too often.
Those of us on the outside looking in could do with out it.
As I say it's a real shame.
I agree that some subjects have been contentious and spoiled relationships and as you have said Rob it has obscured the real purpose of AOS which is a forum for discussing Audio subjects which is what drew us all here in the first place. I have enjoyed nothing more than engaging with some of you guys and discussing all sorts of audio related subjects no matter how extraneous but it is all the other Guff that I feel has led to spoiled relationships.
Hi Rob,
There's nothing wrong with Abstract Chat, as such. There are some great threads (such as the car, food/drink and photography ones) that are very popular and evolve our community, but it's the "guff", as Jim says (read as some political discussions) that has caused issues.
During the last one of such I fell out with Jerry (Jandl) over something I said. It was my fault and I apologised to him for it, which he accepted, but he's currently taking a holiday from the forum, and Tom (Montesquieu) left over the same thing, kind of in solidarity with Jerry.
Ollie (Bigman80) and I a disagreement over something entirely unrelated to politics, and he decided to leave, plus he wanted to spend more time on AA That about sums up the folks I know who've left recently.
I take on board comments about us having 'lost our way', but it's not so much that rather than allowing some contentious threads to run for too long, and folks (me included) saying things that on reflection were unadvisable and ill-considered, and people again including me, having other interests/hobbies, not just hi-fi, which have been taking up our time. In that respect I intend to get more involved again in hi-fi discussions shortly!
Anyway, I wouldn't normally mention this sort of stuff, but since you've asked, I respect the likes of Jim and you too much, and consider you as friends, to ignore you and brush it all under the carpet:cool:
Marco.
Well, if people leave by themselves, it's not that bad.
Vinyl Engine, for example, suffers under its very trigger-happy and paranoid owner who is banning people left, right and centre. If you go to any old topic, half of the posters would be banned and their nicknames often changed to something insulting.
Now THAT would be a problem.
I think sometimes we can all get swept up in passionate arguments and forget to respect each other as decent folk which I know many of AOS folk are.
Life is short and the years pass too quickly and we should all try and see a way through to the best aspects of people even if we don't always agree with their views. I have found many many people on this forum not only friendly, helpful and entertaining but have enriched my audio experience which i am always grateful for.
We all started out knowing nothing about audio but sites like this help educate and improve our knowledge no end and I respect and appreciate you have kept it going Marco even in difficult times.
I hope folk who may have moved on may find their way back here and can put the past behind them and start talking about polishing fuses, exotic cartridge modifications and new and amazing sounding equipment again!
Takes a man to reflect and find himself thinking :hmm: , 'you know what, on reflection, maybe........ we've all been there so bless up !
Lets get those good old hifi related threads rolling again, tt's, amps, cartridges, valves, cables, Techies, Sony, Speakers and so on anyone ?! - oh and play nice ;)
Can only agree 150% bro. The stuf I learned hear in terms of hifi - gosh ! It has been key to that aspect of my journey.
And then the good guys too !
This place had me buzzin for years, twas da best hifi forum - all is most certainly not lost, oh no - lets get back to the source, no pun intended :D
I had not realised that quite a few 'had left' as I dont engage that fully with the forum,as I try not to get too enthused by things (so that I will not spend a shit load of stuff that I wonder wether it works or not !!):)
I dont write anything great as posts go, so my thoughts are that this is still a great place to engage with others ,and the day I get embroiled in an arguement about global warming or religion or politics , is a day too soon !!
I do frequent Audiokharma a bit ,mainly because those cousins of ours across the pond ,are just another breed ,and they make me smile and its a great resource too !!:eyebrows:
I’d wondered why some members weren’t posting as much. As I hadn’t followed the more contentious non hifi related threads closely I hadn’t realised that there had been disagreement of the order described above. In the absence of an explanation I had come up with my own theory which was hifi related. This was related to the rise of digital playback and the average age of members. I wondered whether the discovery of almost plug and play digital, streaming etc. solutions and the fact that as people get older their enthusiasm for ‘faffing’ diminishes might be a reason. Younger people go straight into digital and the fashionable vinyl hipsters are probably not going to get into analogue to the levels of the past. There are endless tweeks to keep you occupied with analogue, not so much digital. I think some tried to, sort of, crossover the two. People advocating vibration isolation for even digital playback, surely just a hangover from vinyl with some companies trying to extend their lives? As people get older they are also probably getting to the point where ‘ endgame’ purchases have happened and passionate interactions with forums happens less. I suppose if other forums are buzzing it would disprove my idea. Are they?i
Hold on members , Lighten up please , Its a forum , Nothing serious , Its to be enjoyed , If you see or read something you dont agree with DONT get involved or as i do use this option ( To unsubscribe from this thread, please visit this page: ) it is attached to every email if you scroll down a bit , From then on you get no more notifications :)
If you read any of my input , Is it ever serious , I hope not :) , Is it ever technical err no as im a numpty and do not have a technical brain box :( , Do I enjoy the forun , You bet I do, and :nono: im not after brown nosing :eek: Thats how it is with me , If its not fun and light hearted its not for me , Best bit is you can wind up the boss you know Micro many a time I have had a laugh with Macro , why does the spell checker do this :eyebrows: 3 time lucky MARCO :) woo I did it .
So please lighten up and lets keep this forum light hearted and friendly , Just how I like it :D
OK said my bit , over and out ;)
Ahhh blow it out your ass, Al, don't tell me what to do!!!! Kidding, kidding! :) This is a great place to pop in on, while I may not contribute much-as shown by my current post here, I still lurk and enjoy the banter. I think much is taken way too seriously these days(Not speaking for AOS in that comment, but more of a general take on many forums), hifi and music is supposed to be fun, at least I thought it was anyway!
I don’t think it helps with moderators that jump on humour that they might not understand. Then make personal attacks on contributors abilities.
Then another moderator jumps in and suggests that humour is confined to certain dates on the forum, sorry I missed that “sticky”.
When members see such actions they may be less inclined to post and possibly ridiculed.
I believe that when members of the forum have not been in a position exposed to the etiquette of the written word, although their comments are valid they may not have the knowledge of how to respond or contribute.
If members consider that AoS is a forum that should only discuss “hi-fi” and nothing else, then I feel sad, but I feel sure that other forums may be more suited to their needs.
I’ve learned a lot on here and I will remain grateful.
Gary
Problems with some people is they do not have a sense of Humour, Take tings way to seriously, Passion is one thing, obsession is another. Some people do not see banter or having a laugh viable, they dont even want to see off topic taking preference or even off topic at all.. they feel that it gets in the way of their precious little hobby.
:D
I really try not to get involved in political discussions on the internet these days. We live in divisive times and it is too easy to fall out with people who you would otherwise get along with.
I much prefer hifi forums to be about music and hifi, with other matter only being discussed if they are not too contentious.
Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk
Even audio dudes surely want a diversion from the hobby! if all you think about is Hi-Fi 24/7 then something is not quite right, Lucky for us in the UK we have free Doctors that will put folk onto a therapist, worked a treat for me.
:eyebrows:
Remember The Clockwork orange movie where Alex agrees to take part in the Ludovico Technique where every time Alex see a clip of Violence it makes him sick! Im the same when i see loonies talking bollox about Hi-Fi, This why i need another section
:lol:
I would tend to agree with Al. Although sometimes when someone has asked for genuine help or guidance going well off topic and taking the pee can be a bit much, but I don't see that happen too much. I had noticed a few had stopped participating which is a shame IMO, its nice to exchange ideas and opinion on hifi and music with others which is mainly why I am here.
Personally I think the none hifi and music related threads are fine usually, although when contentious topics are raised, generally around politics, religion and other inflammatory subjects then things can get out of hand at times, perhaps this is where moderators should be more active in stopping/removing threads if they think it is becoming controversial, or likely to upset others, otherwise this sort of thing will probably end up turning people off of AOS IMO.
I don't always get it right but if I see these then I try to ignore them or not contribute to avoid fanning the flames. Yes I know we all have a right to free speech but not at the expense of others, and at the end of the day this is a Forum about HiFi and Music, or have I got it wrong. :scratch:
Enjoy your HiFi and Music :):gig:
Race, Politics, Religion all best avoided on Forums [emoji6]
Yes some people need to get a life.
In my other major pastime of flying a paramotor everyone has an ingrained sense of the ridiculous, hence a good sense of humour.
After all us humans weren't really meant to fly were we :rolleyes:
I do sympathise with Robert's and James' concerns, but I like to think there's room for other topics (well, with 90% of my posts being on Abstract Chat I would say that). Thing is, despite my interest in things hifi, I'm too clumsy and too thick to make any worthwhile contributions on a regular basis. Can usually hold my own with music side though.
I will say though, if you'd rather read about valve rolling than bowel movements (and you really should), then get posting about valve rolling - otherwise you've only yourself to blame :(
Perhaps the contentious topics could be moved to a sub forum where those so inclined can bicker to their hearts' content. Call it "Is this the right room for an argument?" Then leave them to it.
Thing is steve, you actually one of my fav posters
Having a sense of Humour & not being an Arse goes a long way..
Ban political discussions and that would solve 90% of issues. It works on other forums and keeps people talking about what we all have a mutual enjoyment of, music and Hi-Fi.
Never one for over censorship or steering members into Groupthink to be honest...
lots of room for all shapes n sizes in this parish.
I thought the Wam solved the diversity problem with the “Car Park” area?
Keep the more contentious discussions in their own area.
Maybe time to expand “Abstract Chat”?
I used to be a geek, but the surgeon fixed me.
Exactly, but not just politics, the contentious topics where colour, creed, nationalism enter in, cause its just incendiary - guaranteed.
Add to that 'have to have the last word, no matter what types', ego's and personalities that think it's weakness or they've 'lost' if they dont have said last word and it's no wonder it's all just got out of hand too many times - it's not normal.
On top of that lot we've seen, all too often, where grown men who should absolutely know better, lacking what should be a standard maturity, which is to simply know and spot when it's time to just say, 'hey! we'll agree to disagree' rather than insisting on 'being heard'.
We'd probably have not seen the number of overly heated discussions, turning to argument, (not to mention the number of longstanding good guys and enthusiastic, learned hi-fi discussion contributors sadly now departed) if 'men' showed genuine man character by humbling up a bit, for the better good and harmony of the forum, instead of persisting in having the last say. It's selfish and damaging as the ensuing mess and drop out most certainly has a negative effect on other members. It's been going on way too long and has spoiled things :rolleyes:
I think that's fair comment, Rob, and it's a type of behaviour that too many of us have been guilty of committing on occasion, myself included.
So should we have a vote on whether we should ban discussions on politics in future? And then honour the outcome. "Contentious topics" covers too wide an area, and I'm not willing to gag/censor things to the extent that anything remotely controversial is not allowed to be discussed, as that's definitely a step too far.
Folks too, need to learn to accept their 'world view' being legitimately challenged, sometimes robustly, and not take umbrage at the tiniest slight made against their sensibilities - for me that's just as important as strictly monitoring or banning (some) contentious topics.
Marco.
You wont ever catch me conversing about Race related topics. I hate Politics as in Politicians etc, i know jack shit about that tripe anyway. & i cannot abide sport in any form. I think im safe. I do have issues with deluded Hi-Fi enthusiasts tho :D
I think the 110m hurdles is greatly over-rated.
These have been very emotive times and we are divided as a country in a way that I can never recall. This has impacted on our ability to hold 'reasonable' discussions and people will flounce to competitors, of which there are now many, at the drop of a hat. You can only control your future response and what the forum, and other forums, do now, will determine their future survival.
I've never understood that though, as "flouncing" is an alien concept to me. Maybe some of us have become infected by the 'snowflake' generation?;)
Seriously though, whilst I understand and appreciate where you're coming from, too many folks these days are too easily offended.
Marco.
Flounce was the wrong choice of word. I meant leave having been offended.
If people have become easily offended then we need to reflect that in the way that we choose to communicate. As society changes, we have to. I am talking generally, not specifically about this, or any other forum.
Perhaps men have approached their feminine side more now. Anyway, as i said before, folk will move on, unfortunate as it can be sometimes.
Its one of the failings of the typed response that it is impersonal hence arguments start that probably wouldnt when face to face contact is established..
Yes, and perhaps also some folk need to toughen up a bit and learn to be more tolerant of views expressed that are contrary to theirs?;)
There's also the option of ignoring discussions that contain material you may find offensive, rather than continuing reading it and 'flouncing' because it doesn't meet with your approval. It's a valid option that for some bizarre reason many folks don't seem to choose.
Marco.