Newly retired, new house, rekindling an old flame (music)

Hello everyone. After years of lurking and admiring from afar, I thought it was finally time to introduce myself.

Life has undergone a bit of a reset recently. I’ve just retired, and sadly, I lost my wife last year. It’s been a quiet, strange time. But in the midst of that, I’ve taken on a project: a new house that I am finally able to model to my own liking.

The first thing I realised is that I have a room that is begging to be a listening space. Which leads me to my problem (and my joy): I’m trying to rekindle a love of music that went dormant for decades. Between raising a family, career pressure, and caring for my wife, the hi-fi sat silent. The CDs became coasters. The turntable became furniture.

Now, I have the time and the space. But I feel like a beginner again. My old system is... vintage (and not in a good way). I want to rebuild not just a stereo, but a relationship with music.

I’m not looking for clinical, analytical sound. I’m looking for emotional sound. The kind that makes you stop what you're doing and just listen.

So, I’m here to learn. I’d love your advice on where to start in 2026. If you were retired, building your dream listening room, and falling back in love with music for the first time in 20 years, what would you buy first? The speakers? The amp? Or just a really good streaming subscription?

Thank you for having me.

Hi Alistair

Your starting point should always be loudspeakers and room. Everything else follows from that.

If you can give us some more details about the space you're going to set up in and the amount of money you're prepared to spend (it doesn't need to be a large amount to get outstanding sound quality) then we can offer some advice.

Hi Martin

Thanks, that's really helpful – and exactly the kind of grounding advice I need. I'm guilty of thinking about shiny boxes first, so I'll take your point: speakers and room first.

Here's what I'm working with:

The room is about 5m x 4m (roughly 16ft x 13ft), with a standard 2.4m ceiling. It's a new build, so currently bare floorboards (I can put down a rug), plastered walls, no soft furnishings yet. One wall has a large window. I'm not able to knock walls about, but I can position furniture and speakers freely.

Budget-wise, I'm thinking £3,000–5,000 to start. That's for speakers + amplification + a source (probably streaming, as I have no CDs or vinyl left). I can stretch a bit if something is a true "keep it for 20 years" investment.

I listen to: classic rock (Floyd, Zeppelin), female vocalists (Nina Simone, Joni Mitchell), jazz (Coltrane, Davis), and some classical – smaller scale, not huge orchestras.

I don't want analytical or fatiguing sound. I want music that makes me feel something. Warm, engaging, maybe slightly forgiving of imperfect recordings.

So with that in mind – what speakers would you put on my shortlist? And would you go standmount or floorstander for a room this size?

Thanks again for the warm welcome.

Alistair

16' x 13' is a decent size space which gives you a lot of options.

Standmount or floorstander doesn't really matter, that configuration isn't really any indicator of what will work or not in any given space.

Most important thing with the room, especially since you want relaxed and non-fatiguing sound is plenty of soft furnishings. If you don't want wall to wall carpet you should aim to cover at least 80 percent of the floor with thick rugs. Likewise, curtains on the windows and some fairly chunky well padded fabric covered seating. This will all damp down reflections that cause glare and fatigue.

For loudspeakers, and I'm guessing you want to buy new, check out Wharfedale Super Linton https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/products/super-linton

Well balanced speaker that tends towards sounding 'warm and relaxed', so easy to listen to, but will still give high fidelity reproduction.

Not saying buy that specific speaker but it's one to use as a benchmark when comparing to others.

Most modern amplifiers will have no problem driving it. There's multiple options there, I'd suggest power output of at least 50 watts which you probably won't need as much but better to have it and not need it.

Look at amplifiers with the inputs you're going to need for your sources, and that have the aesthetics that you like. If you like old school looks the modern Yamaha amplifiers are competent and not over-priced. Again, just a benchmark.

I don't personally use streaming so I'm reluctant to make any recommendations there. Most members here do though, so I'm sure someone will chip in on that with some advice.

Welcome to AoS Alistair.

That is an exciting new project you have going, and Martin has already given you some good advice to start with. I admire the wide range of music you enjoy (very much to my tastes!), so the system should be essentially neutral sounding , but not boring.

Like Martin, I haven't investigated streaming, but there are several people here who have. Again, I am sure they will be willing to advise you.

Welcome again
Barry

Video here about the Linton speakers, not the exact same model but close. Erin knows what he's talking about unlike most reviewers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaxknyOrf3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaxknyOrf3I

Thanks for the replies so far, it's most encouraging!

If nostalgia were to bite, would there be any mileage in trying to regain what I had?

The core of it was a Rega Planar 3 with the RB300 arm – I think I had an Audio-Technica AT95E on it for most of its life. Nothing exotic, but it just worked. Amplification was a NAD 3020. I know, everyone and their dog had one, but that little thing drove my speakers surprisingly well.

Speakers were Wharfedale Diamonds – the original Mk I or II, I can't remember now. Sat on rickety Target stands. I had a Yamaha cassette deck (KX- something) for taping records and making mixes for the car. Never bought a CD player until the early 90s – I was a stubborn vinyl holdout.

It wasn't a high-end system by any stretch. But on a Sunday evening with the lights low and Kind of Blue or Rumours spinning? It made me happy. That's all I wanted.

Most of it got sold or given away during a house move in the late 90s. Kind of wish I'd kept the Rega now.

Have things really, noticeably and measurably improved since then (digital sources aside)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maelstrom

Thanks for the replies so far, it's most encouraging!

If nostalgia were to bite, would there be any mileage in trying to regain what I had?

The core of it was a Rega Planar 3 with the RB300 arm – I think I had an Audio-Technica AT95E on it for most of its life. Nothing exotic, but it just worked. Amplification was a NAD 3020. I know, everyone and their dog had one, but that little thing drove my speakers surprisingly well.

Speakers were Wharfedale Diamonds – the original Mk I or II, I can't remember now. Sat on rickety Target stands. I had a Yamaha cassette deck (KX- something) for taping records and making mixes for the car. Never bought a CD player until the early 90s – I was a stubborn vinyl holdout.

It wasn't a high-end system by any stretch. But on a Sunday evening with the lights low and Kind of Blue or Rumours spinning? It made me happy. That's all I wanted.

Most of it got sold or given away during a house move in the late 90s. Kind of wish I'd kept the Rega now.

Have things really, noticeably and measurably improved since then (digital sources aside)?

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Rega Planer 3 with RB300 and AT95E is the exact set up I sorted for a neighbour a few years ago. Deck was vintage from the 1980s. Yes it still sounds good although personally I like Nagaoka cartridges more than AT but he didn't want to spend more.

NAD 3020 was always a good buy as were the old Wharfedale diamonds. You could buy all that back for maybe £600/£800 from eBay. The only caveat is that amp and speakers will be 40 years old so potentially faulty or prone to fail.

Speakers have generally improved and you get more for your money now due to cheaper Far East manufacturing (not just wages but also automated processes and economy of scale). Plus you have a higher budget now, so yes you can get a lot better than that old system if you want to.

I’ve been using Wharfedale Diamond 11.1s for the last four years driven by a Quad Vena 2 and they’re ridiculously good for the money. As with most of Peter Comeau’s designs they have the knack of disappearing into the background and letting the music flow without drawing attention to themselves. You find yourself enveloped in the music without really thinking about what’s producing it. I’ve been using it mostly fed by a Bluesound Node 2i using Qobuz and IDAGIO. Whilst it doesn’t quite give me the same emotional involvement as my TT2, it’s close enough to give me a brilliant listening experience.

I’ve not heard any of the new Wharfedale Heritage range but from what I hear they’re pretty special, with the best of them being the Aston, although you’re talking about £1700 or thereabouts.

Hi Alistair, welcome to AoS.

My first thought speaker-wise after reading your opening post was Wharfedale Super-Linton, and that was before I'd seen Macca's reply! Might well give you just the sound you're after.

As for amplifier, well, this is one I've been considering as it looks like such a bargain, even though I don't actually need another amp...

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=...BAgIEBQ&adurl=

They even do a matching CD player (though there will be other possibly better models at around that price). I know you said you no longer have any CDs, but it wouldn't cost much to get going on a collection.

Welcome from me too, Alistair, happy retirement!

Some good advice above, I am a Wharfedale lover (have a few pairs, including original "Super Diamonds" and Diamond 220's which are a superb more modern take on their tried and tested budget formula) so you won't go far wrong with that stable.

If you do go down the Rega turntable route just remember the price of vinyl can be eye watering sometimes! I stream almost exclusively these days - I have no experience, but the Wiim amps/streamers get great reviews, and are reasonably priced.

Again, thanks for the welcome and advice, it's almost overwhelming!

Parking the nostalgia trip for a while, I've been researching a streaming set up for the past few days. With the plethora of information available, it can be difficult to separate fact from fiction, opinion from experience, adverts from reviews etc.

I'd really appreciate the collective wisdom here before I start spending.

Budget: £3,000–4,000 for the full system (speakers + amp + streaming source). Happy to buy used/ex-demo if that's the smart move.

What I've looked at so far (after reading reviews and lurking here):

Streamers:

WiiM Pro Plus – seems like a no-brainer for the money, but will the DAC let me down?

Bluesound Node (N132) – pricier, but maybe better long-term support and sound quality?

Amplification (integrated, with digital in?):

Cambridge Audio CXA81 – lots of praise, but is it too forward/bright for my taste?

Audiolab 7000A – like the feature set, unsure about musicality

Rega Brio – I know it's analogue only, so I'd need an external DAC. Worth the hassle?

Second-hand Naim Nait 5si – a friend mentioned this, but I worry about maintenance

Speakers (standmount, I think?):

KEF LS50 Meta – everyone raves about them, but will they need a sub in my room?

Wharfedale Linton (with stands) – warm and engaging from what I've read, but huge

ProAc Response DT8 – stretched the budget, but I see them praised for vocals

Second-hand Spendor A4 or A7 – maybe the smarter buy?

The DAC question: If I go with the WiiM + an analogue amp, what DAC would you add? Or should I just buy an integrated amp with a good built-in DAC and simplify?

My main unknowns:

Streamer + separate DAC + analogue amp vs all-in-one integrated streaming amp – which gives better value at this budget?

Standmount vs floorstander in my 5x4m room? I worry floorstanders will boom, but standmounts might lack weight for rock.

What am I missing? Is there a classic, obvious choice I've overlooked?

I'm not in a rush. I want to buy once and buy right – something that will make me fall back in love with music for the next ten years.

Any and all advice welcome. If you'd swap something on my list, tell me why. If I'm being an idiot about something, tell me that too.

Thanks in advance.

Alistair

I'd get a separate streamer rather than a streamer/amp. Don't put all the eggs in one basket.

The DAC in the Wiim has excellent measured performance I don't think that will let anything down but you'll get conflicting views there

Amps can't be forward/bright despite what you might read. The things that matter are - does it have enough power to reach the levels you want without clipping, can it maintain voltage into low impedance?

Sorry to get technical but this is what matters with amplifiers. All the amps you list should work fine with all the speakers you list so I'd choose one based on price, features, appearance.

Regarding the Naim amp the reason people talk about 'maintenance' and 'servicing' with regard to Naim is due to the practice followed by many Naim users of keeping the amplifiers powered up all the time. Capacitor lifetime is rated by hours of use so this will cause early failure. Just switch off when not using it and there's no issue, it will last decades - this applies to all amplifiers not just Naim.

Speakers - more than anything these can offer very different presentations so they are much more a personal choice so much harder to make specific recommendation. This is where you should probably get auditions just to give you an idea of the differences.

KEF LS50 - not a bad speaker at all, I don't think a sub with them is mandatory except for electronic music and pipe organ so if you don't listen to much of that I wouldn't worry. You could always add subwoofers at some future time anyway. They are not on the 'warm relaxed' side though.

Proac DT8 - no idea about that one.

Spendors - on the warm and relaxed side. I don't think they ever made a bad speaker.

Linton we already talked about.

Is there anything overlooked? Possibly. There's thousands of products out there, it's easy to get analysis paralysis but at some point you just have to make a decision and go for it. Nothing you've listed will give you bad sound, just don't overlook the importance of damping down your room with the furnishings or you will find that anything you get sounds bright and fatiguing.

Can I put in another plug for the Quad Vena 2? As well as being a brilliant sounding amp with a good phono stage thrown in, it also contains a very decent DAC. Shouldn’t be too hard to find one to listen to.

I wouldn’t bother with the Vena 2 Play though. For some reason IAG have thrown their hat in with DTS, which doesn’t really seem to offer any worthwhile benefits.

Morning all,

My system planning is progressing (thanks to the excellent advice so far), but I've hit a practical roadblock: I'm not sure where to actually buy from. I've been out of the game so long that I don't know who the trusted names are anymore.

I'm looking for recommendations on online retailers and bricks-and-mortar dealers (both in mainland UK and the Dublin area – Although I'm no Roy S, I can get across the Irish Sea occasionally!). I'm open to buying new, ex-demo, or used.

Specifically, I'd love to know:

Trusted new dealers – who offers good customer service, fair returns, and proper packaging?

Used / ex-demo specialists – any dealers with a good reputation for grading accurately and standing behind what they sell?

Online marketplaces – eBay, AVForums classifieds, etc. – any tips on spotting the good sellers?

Ones to avoid – if you've had a poor experience (with a dealer, not an individual), I'd appreciate a discreet heads-up via PM if you'd rather not name names publicly.

I'm currently considering kit from brands like Rega, ProAc, Spendor, Wharfedale, Cambridge Audio, Audiolab, Quad and possibly Naim used. So dealers who handle those would be especially relevant.

I'm based in Ireland but happy to travel for the right deal or to hear something properly.

Thanks in advance for any pointers – I'd rather learn from your experiences than make expensive mistakes.

Alistair

If it were me I think I would be shopping at Radlett Audio. Dave the owner (Hifi Dave on this forum) could put together a great system at pretty much any budget I reckon.

Or maybe Fanthorpes over in Hull.

+1 from me for Dave at Radlett Audio.

I wonder what a restored pair of Quad 57s would cost these days.

https://aquadthingaudio.com/

Could give them a call.

Then just add a Quad front end.

Just a thought.

It might sound insane to recommend these old ESLs but they are bloody good when you hear a decent pair.

If you must have slam and bass extension go elsewhere. But if you just want to enjoy stuff - really good.

Edit: my brother was in an AirBnb about three weeks ago. He messaged me to say it had a Quad ESL 57 system in it. He was genuinely impressed. 9 years older than me and no stranger to hifi. He'd never heard a pair.

Having owned (and still use) Quad 57 speakers for the last 50 years, I would endorse your recommendation. However, since they are unlike any other type of speaker (apart from other planar speakers), they need to be heard if your experience has been with cabinet enclosure speakers.

Quad 57s are not without their limitations:

They have a limited frequency response, ~ 40Hz - 15kHz.
They don't play loud: ~ 83dB/W, so a maximum of 100dB (which ought to be loud enough, unless you live in a forty acre field, or are a real headbanger).
Can only fed by an amplifier that is stable with largely capacitance loads.
They will be damaged if overdrive with more than 50W.

They also 'beam' badly in the vertical plane, and being a doublet design, are sensitive to room placement: requiring a minimum of 1m between the rear of the speaker and any parallel wall.

That said if you can accommodate these limitations you will be rewarded with a neutral, accurate sound free from colourations.

Hi and welcome from one Ali to another. :-)

Some good advice so far. For streamers I use a Lumin D2 into a Gustard R26 DAC and have no plans to change. I had the Lumin up and running 10 minutes after unboxing it, so if ease of use is a factor it's a good one to consider.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barry

+1 from me for Dave at Radlett Audio.

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Thanks lads for the support.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barry

Having owned (and still use) Quad 57 speakers for the last 50 years, I would endorse your recommendation. However, since they are unlike any other type of speaker (apart from other planar speakers), they need to be heard if your experience has been with cabinet enclosure speakers.

Quad 57s are not without their limitations:

They have a limited frequency response, ~ 40Hz - 15kHz.
They don't play loud: ~ 83dB/W, so a maximum of 100dB (which ought to be loud enough, unless you live in a forty acre field, or are a real headbanger).
Can only fed by an amplifier that is stable with largely capacitance loads.
They will be damaged if overdrive with more than 50W.

They also 'beam' badly in the vertical plane, and being a doublet design, are sensitive to room placement: requiring a minimum of 1m between the rear of the speaker and any parallel wall.

That said if you can accommodate these limitations you will be rewarded with a neutral, accurate sound free from colourations.

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I had the clipping lights of a 600Watt class G amp on trying to drive Firebottle's 57's at a bake off.

I think they survived.

The quoted maximum voltage that can be applied to the Quad 57 ESL is 33V RMS. Any more than 45V peak will cause arcing between the stator panels, which will burn a hole in the plastic diaphragm. This is a simple matter of geometry and the dielectric breakdown strength of air. You can't translate this to power in Watts because the effective input impedance of the speaker varies between about 40 Ohm at low frequencies to less than 2 Ohm at high frequencies, so is frequency dependent.

You might well get away with higher power on short transients, but I wouldn't depend on it. One can fit a voltage clamping bridge on the secondary side of the input transformer, but some claim it affects sound quality.

Hi and welcome to AOS Alistair.

I have some experience with a fair bit of the equipment you are looking at.

I own the Wiim Pro plus and can certainly recommend it as a streamer and the AKM DAC it uses is excellent. I would recommend buying a straight forward integrated amp such as the Rega Brio, indeed I am going to try its bigger brother the Elex Mk 4 today as this will be the basis of a set up I have currently.

I use Spendor speaker and would say they always sound great with most front end equipment and indeed run SP2s with a Wiim Pro plus so I expect other Spendor models you maybe looking at will work well.

I have heard the Wharfedale Lintons and they are great. Big bold, rich sound with fairly detailed top end. I really like them and would even consider a pair myself. Should work well in your room size.

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by User211

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.

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Morning all

Off topic is not a problem!

Any and all discussion arising from my posts is welcomed, and enjoyed. It's all part of the experience.

Alistair

Quote:

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Originally Posted by User211

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.

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Barry was there at that meet!

Yes it did happen

I like the ESL but you me and Barry have very long rooms which are ideal for dipole speakers to work well. Plus I don't think they're the best choice for someone just starting over after a long time. Just too 'experimental'.

Yes I was there, but I don't remember the class G amp/Quad 57 combination. The demo might have been during the time when Marco, I (and I think Justin) plus a couple of others, went out for lunch.

I do remember Firebottle's Quad 57s being driven by my pair of Quad 510 monoblock amplifiers driven by a Mark Levinson ML26 preamp that I had brought along.

It has just occurred to me that Alan's Quads had been modified by him - they had an led fitted which showed if the speaker was being overdriven, and it flashed almost constantly, yet the speakers continued to perform well. So, curiouser and curiouser. :hmm:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macca

Barry was there at that meet!

Yes it did happen

I like the ESL but you me and Barry have very long rooms which are ideal for dipole speakers to work well. Plus I don't think they're the best choice for someone just starting over after a long time. Just too 'experimental'.

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Nah I disagree.

The first speakers I ever bought were a pair of Wharfedale Lintons. I definitely cannot recommend those, but I have never heard the reworked versions.

A retired man deserves better.

In a 16 by 13 I'd stick the 57's on the short wall.

I lived with Duettas in a 17 by 11-12 for years. That was crazy and intense. I can still almost re-create that just by sitting closer in a 35 by 14.

The Quads won't do the Apogee thing and will be way more relaxed in that sort of space.

Rabski from the Wam had a good pair of 57s that I thought were great at a Wam show, augmented by a ribbon super tweeter of some kind. The thing that fucked me up about that pair was walking from side to side. The change in frequency response was absurd.

I wonder whether that's what Barry meant by vertical dispersion being odd. Or whether that ribbon tweeter was doing odd things when combined with the ESL panels. I will probably never know.

The drink any power capability of Alan's Quad 57s though? I am stopping myself from posting AI assertions, but it did have some interesting ideas I was going to post to Barry.

Barry I just can't remember you. Sorry. I remember Martin like it was yesterday. And Alan. And Marco. And Ali.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by User211

The clipping lights were on for quite a few tens of minutes, almost permanently, Barry. Witnessed by others, too.

I'll send you a PM we're off topic really.

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I had fitted the protection boards so I think that helped!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by User211

Nah I disagree.

The first speakers I ever bought were a pair of Wharfedale Lintons. I definitely cannot recommend those, but I have never heard the reworked versions.

A retired man deserves better.

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The only thing that's the same is the name. As if I would recommend a bad speaker!

Hi everyone,

I've been doing some local research, which can be a bit of a nightmare; everyone has an opinion, and is keen to voice it!

I’m planning to arrange a visit to Cloney Audio (specifically to explore the brands they carry: https://www.cloneyaudio.com/brands

I’m interested in auditioning some speakers and possibly amplification, but it’ll be my first time in a long time visiting a high-end dealer for a serious demo.

If you’ve been to Cloney or have experience with their demos, I’d really appreciate your insight:

How far in advance should I book an appointment?
What’s the demo process like—do they encourage you to bring your own music, and is there much flexibility to compare different components?
Any particular brands or setups they excel with that I should prioritise?
General impressions of their service, expertise, and overall approach.

I’ve seen they emphasise system matching and have decades of experience, which is exactly what I’m after.

If anyone has visited recently or has worked with them on a system, I’d love to hear your thoughts before I reach out to them.

Alistair

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macca

The only thing that's the same is the name. As if I would recommend a bad speaker!

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Heard the Super Lintons the other day and they are superb. In fact I would consider a pair myself!

I have no experience, but from a quick browse in the "shop" section £3 to £5k is going to be a challenge in that dealer for a system. They don't seem to have much mid range gear.
As you said, they look a bit more high end, so personally I would give them a call, or drop in, and discuss your requirements with them, and see what they suggest.

As for taking your own music, you may not need to if they can stream, but make sure you have a robust play list.

It's a pity you don't have Richer Sounds in Dublin, but there is a branch in Belfast, a two hour drive away. They have a wide range of products to cater for your budget and beyond, and their staff are enthusiastic and very helpful. Just give them a bit of notice, and they will have everything ready for you to audition.

As you’ve name checked me thought I’d better contribute.

Just to big up Fanthorpes in the dealer stakes. They provided excellent service when I purchased my Luxman amplifier from them in all respects - very fair with their trade in amounts, arranging a home demo and the actual purchase experience.

As far as recommending components is concerned I’m very happy with my system in a similar sized space as yours, happy to list them if you’re interested but might bust your budget.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c00d955d06.jpg

Good luck!

Evening all,

Yesterday, I had a few hours free, so I thought I'd pop in to Cloney, have a listen to some of the speakers on my shortlist (Spendor, ProAc, maybe Wharfedale), and generally get a feel for what's out there.

I was really looking forward to it. A proper hi-fi shop. A chance to talk to someone who knows their stuff.

It didn't go well.

I hadn't phoned ahead, just took the opportunity whilst I was in town

When I walked in, it didn't look too busy, there was an older gentleman behind the counter – I assume a senior salesman or possibly the owner. I said hello, explained I was putting together a new system with a budget of around £3-4k, and asked if I could listen to a few speakers.

His demeanour changed almost immediately. He didn't say it outright, but his tone shifted to something colder. He asked a couple of perfunctory questions, then said something like, "Well, we're quite busy today. Let me get someone to help you."

That someone turned out to be a younger lad – Saturday boy energy, polite enough but clearly not experienced. He didn't seem to know the products well. When I asked about the difference between the Spendor A1 and A2 – whether the floorstander would be too much for my 5x4m room – he gave me a vague, mumbled answer that didn't address the question. When I asked about amplification matching (I'd read Spendors can be a little fussy), he just said "they work with most amps."

I tried to steer the conversation – told him about my room, my taste (warm, engaging, not fatiguing), my interest in second-hand options. He nodded along but didn't really engage. No follow-up questions. No suggestions. No "let me set up a demo for you."

After about ten minutes of me pulling teeth, I thanked him and left. Didn't get to hear a single speaker.

Now, I understand that hi-fi shops are businesses. I understand that margins are tight and that a £3-4k sale isn't going to make anyone's year. But I wasn't asking for a private audition with the owner – just basic courtesy and a bit of product knowledge.

What really stings is that I was prepared to spend money. Not Linn/Naim money, but real money. And I walked away feeling like I wasn't worth their time.

So, am I being too sensitive? Should I just accept that some shops prioritise high rollers and buy online instead?

I don't want to name and shame unfairly. I'm genuinely asking whether I should give them another chance or take my business elsewhere.

Thanks for listening.

Alistair

Not unusual IME. Not all 'proper' dealers are like that but a lot will only perk up if you're spending well into five figures.

Go up to Richer Sounds in Belfast. Richer staff usually very helpful. Been using them off and on for 40 years without one bad experience.

Hello Alistair,

Sorry to learn of your disappointing visit to an audio dealer near you. Whilst I respect your wish not 'to name names', a simple search suggests a likely name. Clicking on their name shows that they have very good customer reviews, but have also received a few very bad reviews. No-one expects any seller to have a 100% satisfaction record; there are always some who like to complain, but the treatment you were given is unjustified and will do little for their reputation.

Often high street outlets are reluctant to spend a lot of time in providing in-store demonstrations is that a likely customer will thank them for the demo, will go away and 'think about it', and then buy the components on-line for a lower outlay.

So what I suggest is for you to describe your intended listening room in detail, providing photographs if possible, showing the disposition of all doors and windows, and where you intend to place furnishings. We have Members here who might be able to advise, and perhaps sell you and deliver a suitable system.

Don't give up.

If you want to try a dealer, I would suggest again Richer Sounds in Belfast. I see from your last post that you just dropped in to Cloney unannounced. Now I'm not going to excuse the way you were treated there, but I will say that dealers like appointments, to better prepare them to set up some products and make time for you. And Richer Sounds will be no exception, so be sure to give them a call first.

I've bought a lot of stuff from them over the years, and apart from last year's £2k telly I've never spent more than a couple of hundred, and I was never made to feel that spending big would get me better service.

But really, to get the most bang for your buck, listen to advice offered on AoS - I wish I'd done that before buying my stuff ten years ago, my set up would look (and sound) better than it does. Of that I am certain. So Barry's suggestion is also valid :)

Give Richer a call in advance and get them to set up the Wharfedale Super Linton, the KEF Q7 Meta and maybe the JBL Stage8 with the Yamaha AS701 amp and see how you go from there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barry

Hello Alistair,

Sorry to learn of your disappointing visit to an audio dealer near you. Whilst I respect your wish not 'to name names', a simple search suggests a likely name. Clicking on their name shows that they have very good customer reviews, but have also received a few very bad reviews. No-one expects any seller to have a 100% satisfaction record; there are always some who like to complain, but the treatment you were given is unjustified and will do little for their reputation.

Often high street outlets are reluctant to spend a lot of time in providing in-store demonstrations is that a likely customer will thank them for the demo, will go away and 'think about it', and then buy the components on-line for a lower outlay.

So what I suggest is for you to describe your intended listening room in detail, providing photographs if possible, showing the disposition of all doors and windows, and where you intend to place furnishings. We have Members here who might be able to advise, and perhaps sell you and deliver a suitable system.

Don't give up.

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As a dealer it's difficult to pick the genuine from the tyre kickers when booking a demo. Demonstrations can go on for hours and occasionally days and end with "I have to think about it, have to sell the old one first, boiler/car need work, gone to get my c/card from the car, waiting for my inheritance to come through" and even had a customer ordering a very expensive system only to phone the next day to cancel because "his Wife had been diagnosed with MS and he had to buy a wheelchair and other aids". Found out he was lying when another dealer phoned to tell me the customer was phoning around for a bigger discount. How could he live with himself using his Wife's (false) illness as the excuse.

You need to take account that numerous dealers work on commission either for the staff or for the shop. In this way you are unlikely to get honest advice or an unbiased demonstration. They will sell the most lucrative products.

I work on my own and genuinely do my best to help a potential customer to get the best system for his/her money but it's not always appreciated. I've always done the utmost to assemble good value systems from decent companies because not all systems are equal and there is an awful lot of dross out there. People often ask "what system do you have ?" My answer is anything I take off the shelf and plug in because I believe in it all. I don't spend my hard earned on rubbish.

Magazines are another source of misinformation because they rely on advertising to survive. At one time the circulations were sufficient to pay the wages and the mags could easily pay for themselves but now with circulation figures so low, they need the advertising. The last thing they can do is to give any product an iffy review because that could kill the advertising revenue.

It's a dangerous world out there.

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Originally Posted by hifi_dave

As a dealer it's difficult to pick the genuine from the tyre kickers when booking a demo..

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I used to sell vehicles so I've literally had tyre kickers :)

One bloke I spent an hour showing him lots of different vehicles. He said he owned a limo company and a nightclub (turned out to be total bollocks). Never bought a thing, he just liked talking to salesmen. I just accepted that it comes with the territory. Sometimes you can get a sale out of those people even so, it's just really hard.

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Originally Posted by Macca

Give Richer a call in advance and get them to set up the Wharfedale Super Linton, the KEF Q7 Meta and maybe the JBL Stage8 with the Yamaha AS701 amp and see how you go from there.

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Hi Martin

Thanks for the suggestion, I think this is the route I'll take; it's roughly a 3-4 hour round trip, plus however long I spend in RS - sounds like a day well spent!

Alistair

It's the lies I can't stand. If someone is friendly and polite, just wants a quick demo without committing to buy, I really don't mind. It's all the excuses why they can't buy which wind me up. When you've been dealing with the public for as long as I have, you really do have a feeling for what is true and what is not. Even an e-mail conversation can give it away.

I like to think I am honest and genuinely try to help people so it comes as a nasty surprise when I get let down by someone who is selfishly wasting my time for their own purposes. It's not easy.

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Originally Posted by hifi_dave

It's the lies I can't stand. If someone is friendly and polite, just wants a quick demo without committing to buy, I really don't mind. It's all the excuses why they can't buy which wind me up. When you've been dealing with the public for as long as I have, you really do have a feeling for what is true and what is not. Even an e-mail conversation can give it away.

I like to think I am honest and genuinely try to help people so it comes as a nasty surprise when I get let down by someone who is selfishly wasting my time for their own purposes. It's not easy.

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I know. Some people are dicks what can you do?

The way I looked at it I was getting paid for my time plus four figure commission and they'd wasted an hour of their own time and gone home empty-handed, so who's getting the best of that? :)

Hi Alistair, welcome to AOS, nice to see some new blood. All the guys on here are spot on and have plenty of knowledge. I will at some point read this thread over a cup of tea! Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with your local audio dealer. Are you any good with a soldering iron amd would you consider ChiFi?

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Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables

Hi Alistair, welcome to AOS, nice to see some new blood. All the guys on here are spot on and have plenty of knowledge. I will at some point read this thread over a cup of tea! Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with your local audio dealer. Are you any good with a soldering iron amd would you consider ChiFi?

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Hi Andrew

That's an interesting question – and not one I was expecting!

Soldering iron: I can use one, but I'm very much at the "join two wires without burning myself" level. I built a few electronics kits as a teenager (anyone remember the old Maplin disco strobe?), and I've replaced capacitors in a couple of guitar amps decades ago. But I'm rusty. Very rusty. And my eyes aren't what they used to be.

So I wouldn't say I'm good with one. Competent in a pinch? Maybe. Confident building a DAC from a kit? No.

ChiFi: I've seen the term thrown around – SMSL, Topping, Loxjie, that sort of thing? I'll admit I've been a bit snobbish about it without really knowing why. Probably because it wasn't around when I was last in the game. But I've read enough forum posts to know that some of it measures exceptionally well and costs a fraction of the Western brands.

And honestly, I'm no stranger to buying direct from China. I built most of my fledgling home automation system with parts from AliExpress and Temu – Zigbee sensors, smart plugs, that sort of thing. A bit of trial and error, some absolute bargains, a few duds. So I'm quite happy buying from those platforms if the seller has decent feedback and the price is right. The wait time doesn't bother me – I'm retired, not in a rush.

Are you suggesting I should be looking at a ChiFi DAC/amp combination and putting my budget into speakers instead? Or are you thinking of a specific kit build?

I'm open-minded, but I'll be honest: I'm retired, I'm a bit lonely in a new house, and part of what I'm looking for is the experience of buying something solid and beautiful – something that feels like an heirloom. A tiny black box with a wall wart doesn't quite scratch that itch. But if the sound is there, I can be persuaded.

What did you have in mind?

Alistair

Alaistair, perhaps the best site I know with regards info on lots of different DACS is here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php virtually every new DAC over the last several years at all price points has been reviewed and tested. Fill yer boots!!!

Morning all,

First, a thank you. The advice on my system-building journey has been genuinely helpful – especially the repeated reminder that I need to think of the whole chain (room, speakers, amp, source) as one system, not a collection of shiny boxes. I'm trying to keep that in mind.

So here's where I am: I've narrowed down some speaker and amp options, I'm getting a handle on streaming sources, and I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that my new room will need a rug or two.

But one thing keeps nagging at me. Cables.

I know. I know. Mentioning cables on a hi-fi forum is like mentioning politics at a family dinner. Everyone has an opinion, and someone's going to get upset.

But I genuinely don't know the sensible approach for someone at my level. I'm not building a reference system. I'm not trying to hear the difference between power cords made from unicorn hair and virgin copper. I just want to connect my amplifier to my speakers without accidentally choking the life out of the music – or spending money I could have put into better speakers.

So, with the understanding that I'm asking for practical, experienced-based advice rather than starting a flame war:

When in the system-building process should I think about cables? Do I treat them as an afterthought, or should I budget for them from the start?

What's the "diminishing returns" point for someone with a £3-4k system? £20 for a basic OFC speaker cable? £100? £500? Where do I stop being sensible and start being a fool?

Is there a consensus on one or two genuinely good-value brands (UK-available) that won't embarrass my system but won't bankrupt me?

I'm not asking for a debate about whether cables sound different. I'm just asking what works without being stupid. If that's still too hot a topic, I'll accept a collective "go away and come back when you've bought the amp" as an answer.

Thanks for indulging me.

Alistair