Naim amplifiers

Dear all

I need to draw on your expertise

I’m thinking of adding a Naim amp to the collection . I don’t know anything about Naim!

What is best ? I’m going to be buying second hand -

Naim nac202 + nap250.2 or
Naim nac 62 + 250 chrome bumper ( which was my teenage dream and has a lot of appeal)

Which power supply ? Do I need a snaps or a hi cap in due course? Should I do the Avondale mods?

I understand I need a snaic - does substitution for another 4 pin din cable make a worthwhile difference?

How will the sound compare to say (a) sugden A48 or (b) audio research reference valve pre / power . I kind of know this is a dumb question but if you have any opinions let me know. Speakers are various but include a tannoy Berkeleys, harbeth shl5+ and Yamaha ns1000s.

Many thanks in advance ,

Sorry it's such a long time ago that I owned or have heard a Naim amp I would not like to comment on the heirachy.

I do remember having a 72 / 140 combo I liked a lot, I tried a 82 / 135 monoblock pair which was quite powerful and could drive any speaker I threw at it, but I also had a Nait 1 and then a Nait 2 which I personally found to be the sweet spot of all the Naim stuff I tried, Regarding power supplies and cables, I remember having them but cannot for the life of me recall which ones.

Every one of Les's amps I have heard have been excellent, although I never did back to back comparisons with Naim equivalents.

My memory suggests you need to match speakers carefully with Naim amps, which can be a bit forward and strident, I had Credo's IBL's and Linn Sara's on my set up, the Sara's with the Nait 2 was a really good pairing to my ears.

I have never heard any of the modern iterations of Naims kit.

Andy

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Originally Posted by Andy831

Sorry it's such a long time ago that I owned or have heard a Naim amp I would not like to comment on the heirachy.

I do remember having a 72 / 140 combo I liked a lot, I tried a 82 / 135 monoblock pair which was quite powerful and could drive any speaker I threw at it, but I also had a Nait 1 and then a Nait 2 which I personally found to be the sweet spot of all the Naim stuff I tried, Regarding power supplies and cables, I remember having them but cannot for the life of me recall which ones.

Every one of Les's amps I have heard have been excellent, although I never did back to back comparisons with Naim equivalents.

My memory suggests you need to match speakers carefully with Naim amps, which can be a bit forward and strident, I had Credo's IBL's and Linn Sara's on my set up, the Sara's with the Nait 2 was a really good pairing to my ears.

I have never heard any of the modern iterations of Naims kit.

Andy

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Since the Naim Audio/Focal merger, I'd assume them to be a good match.

At last year's NW Audio show I heard Focal's Scala Utopia Evo's driven by Naim's "Statement" gear. It sounded great, but then it should do at £200k or so :)

If the old 'chrome bumper' Naim was a teenage dream I'd go with that - plus I think it's better looking than the modern versions.

Forget the power supplies which IMO are a rip-off. An almost empty box with a little toroid and a couple of capacitors. What's that supposed to do? And any DIN cables will do, the SNAIC is unnecessary.

Sugden A48 belongs in a museum, Audio Research is expensive and has reliability question marks.

Either Naim option you're considering will work fine with any of your speakers (good selection of speakers btw).

I remember back in 1979 buying a Naim NAC42/NAP 110 with a SNAPS. Big pride of ownership at the time but I never thought it broke the mould when it came to sound. I was at the time using it with IMF Super Compact speakers. Good but not quite good enough.

Is the "chrome bumper" version, which had separate top, bottom and side panels, or is it the later version which had a single 'wrap around' extruded outer case?

The first version is the one which caused all the fuss over its sound, but the internal construction was nothing to write home about, whereas the version with the wrap around sleeve, was better built with much neater wiring and ostensibly used star earthing.

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Originally Posted by Barry

Is the "chrome bumper" version, which had separate top, bottom and side panels, or is it the later version which had a single 'wrap around' extruded outer case?

The first version is the one which caused all the fuss over its sound, but the internal construction was nothing to write home about, whereas the version with the wrap around sleeve, was better built with much neater wiring and ostensibly used star earthing.

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chrome bumper is the early styling - I think the wrap around case type you mean is known as 'olive'.

I've done a little digging and there are two versions of the 'chrome bumper' design. The first debut version is known as the 'bolt together' version, as the top, bottom and side panels were separate, with the front edges displaying a raw aluminium 'chrome' finish.

Later versions had a single extruded aluminium outer sleeve, which is what I meant by the 'wrap around sleeve', again with the front edge having the 'chrome' finish.

Internally there were differences in the layout and design of the PCBs, as well as how the output transistors were heat sinked. Also the early versions used Cannon LNE mains connectors.

I have no real experience of these Naim 250 amplifiers apart from listening to a couple at two separate audio dealers. My interest at that time was to audition solid state amplifiers that could happily drive Quad ESL-57 speakers.

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Originally Posted by Barry

I've done a little digging and there are two versions of the 'chrome bumper' design. The first debut version is known as the 'bolt together' version, as the top, bottom and side panels were separate, with the front edges displaying a raw aluminium 'chrome' finish.

Later versions had a single extruded aluminium outer sleeve, which is what I meant by the 'wrap around sleeve', again with the front edge having the 'chrome' finish.

Internally there were differences in the layout and design of the PCBs, as well as how the output transistors were heat sinked. Also the early versions used Cannon LNE mains connectors.

I have no real experience of these Naim 250 amplifiers apart from listening to a couple at two separate audio dealers. My interest at that time was to audition solid state amplifiers that could happily drive Quad ESL-57 speakers.

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That's these ones I think.

https://i.ibb.co/G3NcDzMn/4fb3bc2dcf...225b83d52f.jpg

'Olive' is apparently the styling that comes after that one which I'm not keen on.

Would echo this exactly. Chrome bumper models are excellent, power supplies of questionable benefit. Audio Research are excellent until they go wrong. Had a power supply go on one and Absolute Sounds wanted £1400 to repair it, so scrapped it.

My Naim 42/110 SNAPS required the PSU to prevent cracks and clicks on switch off as the pre was powered from the power without the SNAPS. This caused one of my later QLN Mk1's to blow a bass/mid driver. All sorted by the then local dealer.

Naim pre-amps (like the NAC62) require a 24V DC Power Supply which can be provided by a Naim Power Amp in many cases. However IIRC a NAC250 doesn't have the required 24V output so you would need a separate PSU - something like a HiCAP or a SNAPS.

Bolt-down case are very early and I think predate the NAC62/NAP250 era.

I've been through my Naim amp stage and I'm not going back, but something like NAC32 (or NAC72), HiCAP, NAP250 could be fun, providing you can avoid the temptation to add additional boxes. If you want Avondale, then I think there are probably better routes than modifying Naim boxes.

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Originally Posted by Macca

Forget the power supplies which IMO are a rip-off. An almost empty box with a little toroid and a couple of capacitors. What's that supposed to do?

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Well, it provides a 24V DC supply for the pre-amp! If you just feed it raw mains you get one big bang and if you don't feed it anything, you get no sound at all.

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Originally Posted by Macca

And any DIN cables will do, the SNAIC is unnecessary.

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Not quite true since you need to wire them to route the signal and PSU connections correctly. In some configurations you might also need a shorting plug for the back of the pre-amp.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Dixon

Well, it provides a 24V DC supply for the pre-amp! If you just feed it raw mains you get one big bang and if you don't feed it anything, you get no sound at all.

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I forgot the 62 doesn't have its own power supply.

Ah, the old 'it's Naim or nothing', I was there myself once, breaking free was quite refreshing, and easy.

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Originally Posted by Macca

That's these ones I think.

https://i.ibb.co/G3NcDzMn/4fb3bc2dcf...225b83d52f.jpg

'Olive' is apparently the styling that comes after that one which I'm not keen on.

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Nice little entry level flat earth system in that photo [emoji23]

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Originally Posted by Mikeandvan

Ah, the old 'it's Naim or nothing', I was there myself once, breaking free was quite refreshing, and easy.

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Yes indeed. Leaving that behind was very enlightening. A bit of a media thing methinks ?

It was part of the Linn-Naim 'axis' of the mid to late '70s. Somehow, prominent and well-regarded reviewers of the audio press were convinced they were the only items to have, and the propaganda was self-propagating. Even shops that stocked products from the two manufacturers would not sell one without the other (probably a condition on them to be allowed stock the items).

When I wanted to try a Linn Asak cartridge, I had to lie to the shop and say that I owned a LInn LP12 and Grace arm. In fact I used the Asak quite successfully with an SME arm. Later when I bought a used Linn/Naim phono-stage from another Linn/Naim stockist, I was asked if the Asak "worked at all in an SME arm"?

Fortunately those days are now long gone!

The Naim upgrade journey, 'why bring two bottles into the shower, when you can bring six'?

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Originally Posted by Enossification

Yes indeed. Leaving that behind was very enlightening. A bit of a media thing methinks ?

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Perhaps they could get away with that 'jap crap' crap pre internet?

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Originally Posted by Barry

Later when I bought a used Linn/Naim phono-stage from another Linn/Naim stockist, I was asked if the Asak "worked at all in an SME arm"?

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Did they mean did it sound good, or were they not even sure it could reproduce sound on a non Linn arm??

In my youth I hankered after a Naim system. Then a couple of years ago I managed to buy an old (rather than classic) Naim system.
I have a CD5i, NAC 112, NAP 150 and a Flatcap 2 into Spendor BC1 speakers. I am using the Naim interconnects but home-made speaker cables.
I rather like the sound, it is punchy and immediate (good for 70s rock especially) but requires you to listen rather than having it as background (the byword of NAIM is PRAT which means; Pace, Rhythm and Timing. However it does not knock spots of my other system (Audiolab) and they have different characteristics, they are in different rooms so where I listen determines which system I use.
If you can, listen before you buy especially as even a second hand system will be expensive. Note that older NAIM CD players are no longer repairable by NAIM (or anyone else, possibly).
I have no plans to replace any of the components at this stage and am happy with the sound.
Three negatives with my system: 1) The power on delay is in the order of minutes rather than seconds. 2) The CD player display is very basic. 3) It uses DIN connectors so hooking up a more modern CD or tuner is not so easy.
As an aside: I went to the NAIM factory many years ago to try to sell them some components. Julian showed me round and was really nice to a young rep trying to sell him something. He took me into the demo room and we were listening to some female vocals when I noticed that I was listening to the music rather than trying to sell my components. Hmmmm, perhaps there is something in this after all. I still have the visitor badge somewhere!

Great story, Peter! But DID you sell him something!? :lol: