In order to preserve a WTB thread I have moved Finn's comment to here and have started a new thread to deal with his opinion on why anyone would want a Technics 1200/1210 TT.
Regards D S D L
Quote:
But if you want to avoid heavily DJ used gear, then why go for a tt meant for DJ use rather than pick one for the quality of sound?
I hope Ledgie does not mind me answering on his behalf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralyd
Because increasingly there are those who rate this TT for its potential after modding (pretty good from standard too imho) outside of the DJ community and therefore there is a chance of picking one up from a Hifi enthusiast (who mostly tend to look after their kit better than a work horse DJ might) who needs to sell it for what ever reason.
I got one recently from a HiFi enthusiast...in near mint nick.
Finn have you heard a standard Technics 1200 or 1210 with a good MM on it ? If not then you should as it is very good. A fully modded one from SoundHiFi or Mike New or Kab etc is even better. I used to read comments on here about Technics and wonder about what was written here but I choose not to comment until I had actually heard one. Well imhe all that has been written here is 100% true and I can't wait to take mine further.
Regards D S D L
Hi Finn
Because the 1210 actually does sound good even in stock form and has the potential to sound quite a bit better with a few mods ' such as a Timestep psu and main bearing and don't cost the earth, you see at its heart the 1210 has a superb direct drive motor system , which with these mods elevates the deck into something far removed from DJ use.
Its not super high end but a great alternative to the usual Rega's and Projects .
Not at all Neil. Those are my thoughts exactly. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L
Thank you
I sincerely hope that Finn is not a troll, here only to 'slag off' the Technics... I have my suspicions!
Finn, if you've not yet posted pics of the system you listed in your welcome thread, please do so next time you visit before posting anywhere else. I would like to see some evidence that you are who you say you are.
Cheers!
Marco.
It would also be worthwhile mentioning that the 1200 was originally designed as a Hi Fi turntable. Its use migrated to clubs and DJ's because it not only sounded good, but was also ultra reliable and its build quality was sufriciently good for it to handle the use/abuse dished out in professional audio reproduction
Indeed, Andy - and this fact is often something the 'naysayers' choose deliberately to ignore. Either that, or they're ignorant of this fact in the first place! :rolleyes:
Marco.
Originally released in 1972 as a high end hi fi turntable. It has been around longer than most of the DJ's that play on them. :)
I guess as an alternative to Rega's and Projects, they'll do.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
I am NOT gonna post pictures of my system.
Why whould I?
Is that something everyone here are forced to do?
I don't understand this?
Quote:
My reply to the above was.....
No one is forced to do anything Finn bar a very strong suggestion to say hello in the welcome section but I must say that I detect a real attitude behind your NOT...... also you don't say if you have heard a Technics or not and then offer a begrudging Project or Rega comment.
One thing I can't abide is those offering pearls of wisdom on kit they have not heard ( if you confirm that you have then I apologise) either to the positive or the negative. If you have no first hand experience (in this case with Technics )then read and only comment when you have heard the item in question.
Its this kind of thing that give forums a bad name imho.....the term is thread crapping :( your previous post 3 imho qualifies as such.
D S D L
No one is forced to. We are just nosey and like to see what other people use. Well I am anyway. :)
Finn,
Before you cause conflict with a lot of people here, perhaps you might consider a few things:
I've never heard or seen a Norwegian "Audiostone Pythagoras" TT but I wouldn't presume to judge it or anything else by reputation. It doesn't sound like you've heard a Technics TT that's been raised to the level of performance that some people here have done - and some of those people have gone to the Technics from some very heavy hitting TT's. So perhaps you might like to tell us of your experiences with it or are you judging it by reputation?
Neil tried to explain why this TT is of interest to the original poster. Maybe you should take a look in the Gallery at some of Neil's equipment. You might see the standard of TT that he is comparing the Technics to.
By the way, I don't own a Technics, nor do I particularly aspire to do so.
We all love pictures, most people post a few of their pride and joy, some of us even post holiday snaps or other non-hifi piccies - all part of being a thriving community - no one is forced to do this, so the answer to "why should I" is because you wan't to take part in that community a little further than a few oblique posts with a thinly veiled criticism of the turntable in question or contempt for the forum you chose to join? ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
Just reviewed in this months Sterophile its made into a Granite top plate which forms the top of an audio rack. Cost in the US of A $77,140 without arm. It gets a reasonably good review though Michael Fremer reports some issues similar to what the recent poster on the Oxford Crystal Reference was having platter rise and fall and side to side motion. The manufacturer did not comment on this in his reply to the review.
At the price I for one would not find that acceptable at all. However I have not head one and Fremer felt it was in some ways nearly as good as his TT reference, the Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn (iv'e not heard one of those either)
info here http://www.pythagor.as/#/eng/Audiostone/Audiostone/
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...EUny0-Lpj5ivA= http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...UJk9aNsPQdEIM=
Regards D S D L
I considered a Rega or Project but after having a play with a 1210, I knew that was what I wanted. Loved the solid build and after having a browse on this forum I like the look of a lot of the mods that can be done.
Anyway for anyone looking in on this thread, I'm still looking for a nice example of a 1210. :)
Thanks
Hi GaryQuote:
Originally Posted by ledgie
I must say sorry to you for Finn's crapping on your thread. If you want I can remove all the extraneous comments and leave it clean for you but if its okay with you I would like Finn to see what has been written before I clean it up.
However its your thread so if you want the thread drift removed just say and it will be gone....:)
Regards D S D L
Indeed, Chris. If he can manage that, I'll try hard to think of a good reason not to ban him ;)Quote:
It doesn't sound like you've heard a Technics TT that's been raised to the level of performance that some people here have done - and some of those people have gone to the Technics from some very heavy hitting TT's. So perhaps you might like to tell us of your experiences with it or are you judging it by reputation?
Marco.
Because I think you're full of shit (here to troll), and are more likely to use one of these:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralyd
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1...nfiberglas.jpg
than one of these:
Will that do?Quote:
Norwegian "Audiostone Pythagoras" TT with the Swiss "Thales Zero" arm and the "Lyra Titan i" cartridge...
Marco.
I don't think Finn is a troll ' i just think understandably baffled by all this Technics 1200 nonsense:rolleyes: , when really we should all get down to our nearest linn dealer and throw the plastic at the latest Radikal or perhaps a Xerxes 20 .
We will come to our senses one of these days ehh Marco :)
Hi Chris,
Aye, that'll be right! :mental:Quote:
I don't think Finn is a troll ' i just think understandably baffled by all this Technics 1200 nonsense , when really we should all get down to our nearest linn dealer and throw the plastic at the latest Radikal or perhaps a Xerxes 20 .
As Chris (TGW) rightly said to Finn:
Everyone's entitled to their opinion (although some opinions are more worthy than others), but what pisses me off are people who judge the Techie, conclusively, solely as a stock model (or as a "DJ deck"), and then claim to be an expert on how it sounds, without allowing for the fact that these days, with all the modifications that are available, it can be transformed into a serious 'hi-end' turntable, able to rival the very best.Quote:
It doesn't sound like you've heard a Technics TT that's been raised to the level of performance that some people here have done - and some of those people have gone to the Technics from some very heavy hitting TT's. So perhaps you might like to tell us of your experiences with it or are you judging it by reputation?
If they want to come here and tell us they've used a fully modified SL-1200/1210 in their system and compared it to an LP12, Xerxes, VPI, or whatever, and preferred the latter, then fair enough, as their opinion is worth something and based on practical experience - but if they don't have that experience, then they should STFU and reserve final judgement on the Techie until they have the necessary knowledge to know what they're talking about!
Neil was (rightly) a sceptic of the SL-1200/1210, modified or otherwise, until he bought one and discovered that, even in stock form with a basic Ortofon MM cartridge, it excels in areas of reproduction that his SME 20 can't quite manage!
Therefore, it's about time the doubters/cynics opened their minds, took off their 'badge hi-fi' blinkers and woke up and smelled the coffee!!
<Rant over> ;)
Marco.
Marco ' quite right of course , i was just being a lttle flippant .
I think having owned a top spec LP12 ' Voyd ' and even though it was the lower spec Radius 5 ' still a very good Roksan , i feel suitably qualified to make any comparison.
Absolutely you are, however, until Finn qualifies his relevant experience in the matter, he isn't!Quote:
I think having owned a top spec LP12 ' Voyd ' and even though it was the lower spec Radius 5 ' still a very good Roksan , i feel suitably qualified to make any comparison.
Marco.
Just thought I should clarify.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
a standard Technics is very good in the areas of pitch, timing and bass....all areas I think most agree that DD are good in (my experience here is limited to just the 1200) Where the standard 1200 with a basic MM lacks is in the midrange and treble + the areas of imaging, sound staging, nuance and detail. These are areas that my SME Model 20, Graham Phantom, and MC cart do very well in.
However those areas of lack in a 1200 are down to the arm and cart you might use and not the quality of the motor unit. Removing the internal PSU for an external one + better bearing takes the motor unit even further.
However there is a quality to the standard 1200 music making ability that is highly musical and infectious. Despite the above mentioned limitations, its boogy factor puts it way above most High end TT I have heard to date. In my humble experience the level of musical enjoyment to be had also far out strips the Projects and Regas at that price point too.
My experience to date has been such that I can now hear what AOS members and others have claimed for the Technics 1200/1210. I can hear through the limitations caused by the arm, cart I am using at the present time and because of that I feel strongly that what Marco, Martin T and others have claimed for a full modded Technics is right.
My next steps are change arm (my SME is currently on a TT in for review in the context of my reviewing for AIHFA) but once it is free it will be going on my 1200. Next step bearing, mat and PSU which I will be doing very shortly.
I can't wait to hear what everyone else is hearing and frankly the nay sayers who have no direct experience can go and kid themselves elsewhere.
Regards D S D L
Excellent Neil
As i write this i am listening to Rameau ' solo harpsichord/Fuller ref recordings ' it sounds like he is in the room .
I was having a look on Ebay at used 1210's , such a lottery, perhaps a better bet maybe ask Hifi dealers to look out for a good used 1210 as they sometimes get them , might be a bit of a wait though .
I picked up 15 really nice classical vinyl box sets a few days ago. Covers are a bit tatty but the vinyl is mint. There are some excellent looking recordings in there Christopher Hogwood etc I can't wait to listen to them on the techie.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris@panteg
Regards D S D L
Well done for moving the off-topic stuff to a separate thread, Neil - you saved me a job! :)
Excellent post - I concur completely.
...And in mine, too. I've said it before, the latter are but toys in comparison, certainly in terms of out-and-out solid engineering design, which in my experience is responsible for about 80% (or more) of what a turntable is capable of, sonically.Quote:
However there is a quality to the standard 1200 music making ability that is highly musical and infectious. Despite the above mentioned limitations, its boogy factor puts it way above most High end TT I have heard to date. In my humble experience the level of musical enjoyment to be had also far out strips the Projects and Regas at that price point too.
Quite simply, it is no accident that the most solidly (and cleverly) engineered turntables in the world, are amongst the best sounding.
Let's get real and cut the bull... How can any T/T with a 'two and a half pence motor and PSU', driven by an elastic band, compete sonically with the technologically adroit Quartz locked direct-drive system of the Technics, which is vastly more sonically accurate than entry-level Regas or Pro-jects, and has been in production and used professionally and domestically for over 30 years??
The other thing which must be remembered here is that despite some stock SL-1200s and 1210s costing the same as some Pro-jects and Regas, the former are derived from a much larger development budget, and only priced as they are due to economies of scale (as a result of the sheer size of Matushita Electric/Panasonic and its manufacturing capabilities) and the fact that the development costs of the SL-1200 design are long since paid for.
How much would an SL-1200 or 1210 cost today if designed from the ground up by, say, Linn, SME or Mitchell, who arguably have the engineering facilities and prowess to take on such a project?
£2k, perhaps - or more? Therefore, how can one realistically compare, what is to all intents and purposes, an (approx) £2k T/T with ones that sell for only a few hundred pounds, and probably cost MUCH less than that to produce?? ;)
It’s bloody ridiculous!!
Marco.
No problemooooo :)
Regards D S D L
Marco, please remember that the real ability in design is to work miracles with next to nothing. I do accept that the SL1200 mk2 came along nigh on ten years after the original basic designs were done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
If you chuck loads of dosh at an idea, you can often make it work through brute force, but, in my opinion, current Rega's sound as good as they do because of very clever production engineering where it matters (main bearing and tonearm) and clever use of cheap materials (in the MDF and float-glass platters for example, let alone this new plastic derivative their using in the RP1).
Gotta go...
Hi Dave,
I completely agree. I think entry-level Rega and Pro-ject T/Ts are decent and, as you say, cleverly designed budget turntables - I have no issue with that notion whatsoever.
What I *do* have a MAJOR issue with, however, are those who, through ignorance and/or hidden agendas, insist on lumping the Techie in with them, in terms of sonic performance, due to the fact that SL-1200s/1210s (sometimes) cost the same, depending on the respective models from the manufacturers in question, or because they think that the Techie is inferior because it was designed as a "DJ deck", and then when told differently, stubbornly refuse to 'digest' this fact! :rolleyes:
The SL-1200/1210 never was, and never will be (in real terms) a 'budget' turntable, modified or unmodified, for the reasons others and I've explained, and so therefore should not be compared to entry-level Rega and Pro-ject T/Ts, which are.
<(Another) rant over>
Gosh, I'm enjoying meself today! :lol:
Marco.
WOW
What is this?
Is this a time bobble or is it a community for japanese vintage gear?
People conclude on my knowledge and experience without any premises.
Accusing me for trolling? No way.
I have heard several Technics SL-12xx in modified and overmodified versions.
I was just trying to be helpful to the poor guy asking.
I would have guided him to a better solution for same $$
People on Swedish communities fully agree with me when talking Technics TT.
I guess it was a mistake by me to join in here without researching what this place was about.
I better search for communities dealing with people having more experience and higher level of gear then.
I apologize if I in any way have offended anyone.
I might pop in to read a few comments now and then but I promise I will leave your Technics fantasy alone.
Hi Finn,
No, it's a community of open-minded, largely very experienced, discerning audio and music enthusiasts who don't judge equipment on price or 'badge desirability' ;)Quote:
What is this?
Is this a time bobble or is it a community for japanese vintage gear?
Well I'm afraid that's what happens when you make sweeping statements without qualifying how you arrived at your conclusions.Quote:
People conclude on my knowledge and experience without any premises.
However, perhaps your English isn't good enough to express yourself properly? That I can understand and forgive. Your English is certainly better than my Swedish! :)
Ok then, humour me - please tell us what "overmodified" SL-1200s or 1210s you've heard. This will then at least give your views some credibility. Or do you not expect to be challenged in that respect?Quote:
Accusing me for trolling? No way.
I have heard several Technics SL-12xx in modified and overmodified versions.
A "better solution" for who - YOU or him? Do you know anything about the OP or his tastes in audio equipment/music? And so you "help" him by 'crapping' all over his thread?Quote:
I was just trying to be helpful to the poor guy asking.
I would have guided him to a better solution for same $$
Have you actually read what he's written and what HE thinks??
With respect, I don't give a shit what people on Swedish communities think about Technics T/Ts. Why should that have any bearing on what we think here? You're entitled to your opinion, as they are, but that's it.Quote:
People on Swedish communities fully agree with me when talking Technics TT.
What do you mean exactly by "what this place is about"? I think you're coming to the wrong conclusions rather too quickly, my friend. What's a "higher level of gear", exactly - something with a 'hi-end' badge to show off to your friends?Quote:
I guess it was a mistake by me to join in here without researching what this place was about.
I better search for communities dealing with people having more experience and higher level of gear then.
Have you noticed what type of systems some of us use our modified Technics T/Ts in? They're not exactly 'budget'!
Apology accepted. Perhaps you could start again and be a little bit more open-minded?Quote:
I apologize if I in any way have offended anyone.
That's entirely your decision, but rather rudely dismissing many people's valid, and in some cases long researched equipment choices as "fantasy", I'd suggest is not likely to endear you to many of our members.Quote:
I might pop in to read a few comments now and then but I promise I will leave your Technics fantasy alone.
Marco.
P.S Are you sure you're not 'nicholasthedolphin' (a banned troll from Norway) in disguise? You write like him and have very similar views. Perhaps it's a Scandinavian thing? :scratch:
Ultralyd.
Yep, this is a time bubble; quaint isn’t it ;)
Just out of interest, what would you have recommended in that price range?
“I guess it was a mistake by me to join in here without researching what this place was about.”
Yep, you’re right; always a mistake to join any forum until you’ve read the relevant riot acts and got some knowledge of who is who and what the forum is about :doh:
“I better search for communities dealing with people having more experience and higher level of gear then.”
This should be an interesting quest given many here have been listening to Hi Fi a great many years,. It’s an age thing. It may not bring wisdom but it does bring experience, even in a bubble.
I would love to read what sort of gear you think is higher or lower than the equipment some of the contributors here have, or have had.
Oh, of course, you wouldn’t know would you, you didn’t bother to find out ;)
Do I think the Technics is the last word in record decks? Definitely not; perhaps you could nominate your favorite?
Hi John,
Good post.
Neither do I. No-one is saying that it's the "last word"; merely that when modified it can compete, soncially, with some very expensive and renowned 'hi-end' T/Ts. I have (extensive) personal experience of this, as have others here.Quote:
Do I think the Technics is the last word in record decks? Definitely not.
As you were... I simply wanted to attend to your little inconsistency - hope you don't mind :)
Marco.
Good grief no i dont mind at all Marco........
I've only heard one Technics deck to my knowledge. I beleive it was unmodded and it sounded fine to me.
I've always been a suspended sub chassis sort myself but i can appreciate they're not the easiest decks to keep in tune.
Tbh, i dont think there were many direct drive Hi Fi decks about when i started out :scratch:
Hi John,
Cool, and there's nothing wrong with that. I agree about the keeping in tune aspect. I just find that most non-'high mass' belt-drive T/Ts sound rather woolly and bloated compared to good direct-drives, which are normally tighter and more 'incisive' sounding, and personally I absolutely hate obvious coloration in vinyl replay.Quote:
I've only heard one Technics deck to my knowledge. I beleive it was unmodded and it sounded fine to me.
I've always been a suspended sub chassis sort myself but i can appreciate they're not the easiest decks to keep in tune.
Probably not in this country - and most of them would've been crap. Some of the truly awful 'cheap 'n' cheerful' D/D turntables which flooded the UK market in the 70s and 80s, often as part of 'midi systems', and the like, did the reputation of direct-drive no favours whatsoever!Quote:
Tbh, i dont think there were many direct drive Hi Fi decks about when i started out :scratch:
Marco.
Ah well, if you don’t like turntable colouration you’ll be wanting to listen to CD’s or computer based audio then ;)
(Dodges the bricks)
Seriously though, I would agree with you in general; platter mass was always a problem for suspended sub chassis designs; too heavy and the springs needed killed the dynamics.
I took my Thorens platter into work and machined two small grooves on the inside of the vertical platter wall and inserted a brass ring in one and a rubber compound in the other.
This of course meant a bit of rebalancing; never completely confident I got it right. But to my ears at least it improved the sound.
The Thorens upgraded springs were an improvement but the quality control wasn’t that great imo. Ideally one needed a spring specific to each mounting particularly if one takes into account the use of a heavier arm for a mc cartridge.
Those wedge plastic washers didn’t help much either. I replaced those with brass.
I did eventually get it fairly tuneful sounding but not in the chipboard box.
Tufnol arm board was good as well; mentioned this elsewhere.
I preferred the Thorens to the Linn Sondeck in its original guise which is all I could afford.
It’s odd really but I tended to stick to a deck I knew and mod it rather than start from scratch with a direct drive for example :mental:
If Linn had bought that Technics DD motor on an OEM basis (as Ivor Tiefenbrun has alluded to), it would all have been so different.
For my part, I came from a Roksan Xerxes / SME IV / AT OC9 / EAR 834P setup and I swear I never, once, had as much fun (or fidelity) from playing records as I do now. Isn't that what it's all about?
I heared Marcos 1210 and was very impressed, it performed at a similar level to my VPI Reference superscoutmaster. To be honest its so hard to judge as such different systems, but at least I now understand why some people are passionate about this deck, but like Chris I have no real desire to go down this route
I am certainly not saying and neither is Marco that the Technics is the best TT out there. There are no doubt a fair few TTs out there which are better.
However I think the fundamental issue here is cost per pound. You can still pick up a good nick S/H 1200 for £250 +. At that price + an Ortofon MM cart or similar the 1200/1210 is far better imho than a £250 + same MM cart brand new Project or Rega.
Once you go above £1000 or so those TTs start to do some things that a Technics does not do....NB in standard form. However once you start addressing the issues that a standard 1200/1210 has (well known so I won't bore people by listing them) the gap starts to widen again.
A fully tricked out 1200/1210 does according to many here give very respected expensive TTs a very bloody nose. Note I don't say that I have heard that yet. I am pretty sure based on what I have heard so far that a fully modded 1200 will be a very scary proposition re how much it costs compared to many expensice TTs....note please I say many, not all.
When I hear my fully modded 1200 I will of course share my experiences at that time, honestly and fairly.
Finn's attitude is really very telling. Reading between the lines he is basically saying that if its not crazy dear its not worth talking about.
I have spent 20+ years listening to all kinds of gear cheap and dear and imho/e you do get better sound the more you spend but you very quickly hit a ceiling whereby the differences and improvements reduce as you go further up the price banding.
The jump in sound quality (assuming a matched sympathetic system) between budget and high end can be massive (less so in a non-sympathetic system) but the differences between say £5000 and £10000 items is less so [still a difference, though smaller than between budget and the £5000 item] if you can afford to buy it and justify it) However imhe the differences once you pass £10000 + gets less and less, still there to be heard but frankly you need big/deep wallets to do it and well I don't personally know how you can justify buying a £80000 TT or anything else at that price point. However that's your decision not mine to make and you are free to do it....no crime has been committed. However cost alone does not mean any thing unless synergy is at play between components and the room.
Finn you do not need to have a Technics TT or any other item on AOS to be part of this community ( I know AOS can appear a bit of clique but it is a fairly broad church but it does have lots of members who like Technics, Tannoy, Beresford etc. That has only happened as people join who are of like mind or having tried it out then agree...what's wrong with that ? Nothing) , but stating that only having expensive gear is worth while is imho arrogant and willy waving of the highest order. No one should ever wave the cost of an item in front of someone else that is just very poor behaviour imho.
You also imply that because AOS is not full of £200,000 + system owners then it is not the place for you. That is a plain crazy attitude imho. You join a forum to get to know people, have fun and stick around for those reasons and to share and learn about gear and music (music is very important here) not because its a millionaires system marina. AOS welcomes the budget system user and the multi thousands of pounds system owners/users and every one in between.
Take a look at my systems in the Gallery section of the forum and elsewhere in the forum to see what kind of gear I own. Do I wave it in peoples faces or make a big deal about it ? No I don't, because to do so is very rude. I spend and spent my money in the pursuit of the sort of sound I like just as you have. You are in a special rare position to buy what you can buy just as I am at my level and the other members who can't (though might love to) at their level. This forum is about having a good time, sharing experience and knowledge and not judging others based on what they have or don't have. Bottom line AOS is about enjoying music and we all go about that differently.....though there are some similarities in approach and systems.
You may think you have been slapped down for what you said about the Technics TT but its not about that. Your post in Ledgie's thread was rude and poorly worded it came across as "Why would you want one of those, they're crap"
It would have been different if you had offered a few alternatives.....however in saying that Ledgie was not asking for that, he was asking if someone might sell him a Technics 1200.
Oh yes Finn Fantasy I don't think so, my opinions are based on direct experience (you can disagree) but I and many others here, are I can assure you not deluded or deluding ourselves re the Technics 1200/1210.
Nuff said
Regards D S D L
I think Finn should remember that Ken Kessler reviewed the SL1200 Gold version in HiFi news well over twelve years ago (IIRC) and was bowled over by the refined presentation the STOCK ARM had with a Lyra (Lydian Beta I think from memory).
Lets be honest here. So much expensive Top End audio gear is bought by the eyes, egos and empty wallets, there's no way a current model Techie can cut it in the company of a £40K turntable, no matter how good or bad it is - the Techie just isn't flash or expensive enough. An otherwise identical model costing £10K with fancy plinth and called the SP10 Signature (or something equally snooty) would be far better thought of by these people, even if it didn't sound any better at the end of the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Agreed 100%
Regards D S D L
Well, when I read between Finn's lines what I got was 'If it's cheap and Japanese, it's shite'.Quote:
Finn's attitude is really very telling. Reading between the lines he is basically saying that if its not crazy dear its not worth talking about.
I also got a whiff of wannabe willy waving.
Indeed, Dave - and it's idiots like that who I wouldn't want anywhere near AoS, as they represent the complete antithesis of what this site (and community) is all about.Quote:
Lets be honest here. So much expensive Top End audio gear is bought by the eyes, egos and empty wallets, there's no way a current model Techie can cut it in the company of a £40K turntable, no matter how good or bad it is - the Techie just isn't flash or expensive enough. An otherwise identical model costing £10K with fancy plinth and called the SP10 Signature (or something equally snooty) would be far better thought of by these people, even if it didn't sound any better at the end of the day.
Neil,
Hear, hear - I couldn't have put it better myself! :clap:
However, this for me is the crucial bit:
Indeed! The only reason that such equipment is popular here is because it offers very high 'sound-per-pound value', so when folk get the chance to own equipment that can compete with, and in some cases outperform stuff which costs much more, they'll quite naturally praise it from the rooftops and recommend it to others.Quote:
I know AOS can appear a bit of clique but it is a fairly broad church but it does have lots of members who like Technics, Tannoy, Beresford etc. That has only happened as people join who are of like mind or having tried it out then agree...what's wrong with that ? Nothing
That for me is perfectly normal human behaviour, and nothing whatsoever to do with cliques or 'fanboyism'!!
What should we do - shut up and keep things to ourselves??
Well I've got news for people like Finn: sharing equipment recommendations and tweaks with like-minded people is what an Internet audio discussion site is all about, therefore AoS will always champion the gear its members use and find as excellent. Those who don't like that for whatever nonsensical reason are welcome to take themselves off elsewhere - and to them I would offer a well deserved two-fingered salute......!!
:)
Marco.
I just got a whiff of pure shite. If he owns the system he listed in his welcome thread, I'm the next President of the US! The boy certainly knows all about fantasies :lol:Quote:
Well, when I read between Finn's lines what I got was 'If it's cheap and Japanese, it's shite'.
I also got a whiff of wannabe willy waving.
Marco.
Good post Neil.
When you consider the 1210 is a mass market item from a household name, the performance offered is quite startling and therefore comes as unexpected. It reminds me of when Ford released the Cosworth Escort. It was still "only a Ford", but it well and truly kicked the BMW brigade in the nads. :)
I can see I’m going to have to find someone with a Technics so I can have a listen for myself.
Well if you find yourself at a loose end and fancy a trip to Wrexham....... ;)
Marco.
Ditto if you're ever Basingstoke way.
That's very kind of you both. I'll bear it in mind when I'm mobile again.
I find myself in the same frame of mind as Welder, I have not heard a different TT for years, but unlike another poster I shall not pass any derogatory remarks toward the Techie, because a. it's downright rude and b. I have no experience to fall back on.
Can I just say that I do like my rubber band driven TT, but it does have a nice heavy platter to iron out those wows and flutters.
The Rock wasn't a wow prone rubber band driven deck in any case..