SL-1200 MKII mods or upgrade to 1200G

I have a question as above.

I have a mint 1200MKII that has only been used for home use. It has been fully serviced, had a new arm tube, and new cable. I have the ISO feet and a replacement mat I am happy with.

Before I go down the road of the usual upgrades recommended and the associated cost, would it make more sense to sell this one and some other kit and buy the 1200G?

Has someone already done this or upgraded from a modded 1200 MKII to the 1200G and can comment on the change and if they recommend it?

Answers on a post card please?

Thanks

Lee

What a question! I went down ethe route of modding mine to hell and back about 10 years ago, I have still have the deck and it gets used every week. Would I do the same again? No, I'd save like hell and get the new sl1000r and have done with it. That would see you out. It's engineering at its best and highly unlikely to be surpassed for several decades.

Being familiar with an SP10/SL1210's and having heard SL1000r I'd go new if its affordable. Weren't they ground up redesigns?

One of the few times I'd recommend new over old ;-)

I have just looked up the SL1000R and was out of by the headshell not being included in the price [emoji38]

It looks amazing but totally out of my budget at this stage and time of life. So back to the SL1200G, is this the way to go rather than the upgrade rout? I see that the price has gone up quite a bit as Richer Sounds were selling them for £2k not too long ago. They seem to be around £2.5k to £3k

My point about the SL1000r being Technics have moved the goalposts forward. I would expect the new 1210g to be very, very good.
The only way to know for sure is try one. Richer used to have a very good returns policy, maybe worth a chat to see if they have one available for home dem/sale or return ?

Ouchie, just seen they're ££3-3.5k...

Do you think Brexit has pushed the prices up? It seems as though many things have gone up in price and yet the pound is doing well against the $. I wonder if companies are taking the opportunity to increase prices because of Brexit or Covid.

greed will be at bottom of it...it usually is

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Originally Posted by eldarvanyar

Do you think Brexit has pushed the prices up? It seems as though many things have gone up in price and yet the pound is doing well against the $. I wonder if companies are taking the opportunity to increase prices because of Brexit or Covid.

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It's called protecting profit margins.

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Originally Posted by REXTON

What a question! I went down ethe route of modding mine to hell and back about 10 years ago, I have still have the deck and it gets used every week. Would I do the same again? No, I'd save like hell and get the new sl1000r and have done with it. That would see you out. It's engineering at its best and highly unlikely to be surpassed for several decades.

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I suppose the thing is you would then need to match it carefully with amp and speakers to really benefit from the upgrade. I need my arms and legs at the moment. But when you think it the cost of a decent new car nowadays with it a massive depreciation then it doesn’t look like such a bad thing.

If I went down the SL1200G route in the future do you think my Harbeth C7ES3 or Proac Response 1SC speakers would be able to make the most of it?

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Originally Posted by eldarvanyar

Do you think Brexit has pushed the prices up?

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Can't see it having anything to do with Brexit really..... Technics announced price rises many months ago and the SL1000R remained stable for a long time, although I notice that it has now increased in price by £2k!...... (and yes, you don't get a headshell with it!!!!).

I can't speak for the other models in the range.

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Originally Posted by eldarvanyar

I suppose the thing is you would then need to match it carefully with amp and speakers to really benefit from the upgrade. I need my arms and legs at the moment. But when you think it the cost of a decent new car nowadays with it a massive depreciation then it doesn’t look like such a bad thing.

If I went down the SL1200G route in the future do you think my Harbeth C7ES3 or Proac Response 1SC speakers would be able to make the most of it?

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I've not heard either pairs of your speakers so can't comment, sorry mate!

I think a fully upgraded Technics Mk2 or Mk5 won’t be that far away from a 1200G.
However, the 1200G has a motor with overlapping coils, so the wow and flutter should be better, without any clogging effect.
For less money, you could have an awesome Mk2 or Mk5 though.

The G would also benefit from a better arm, as although better than the aluminium arm, it is still not the best. Sure, it will work, but if you want to extract the best out of the deck, budget for a new arm, and possibly a better platter mat.

Let's start from the obvious, we all want the SL100R but not many will have it.

The 1200 MK2 is an iconic deck (IMO) and I like the stock look, I got a NOS one and I won't change it. I will rewire and check or even upgrade the arm's bearings but I won't change anything else. I view it this way because it's not my only deck, I like having more than one decks so I can afford to do that. I also think it gets harder with time to find either NOS or only home used MK2's so one should think about it before modding it to the point it does not remind the stock deck anymore. There are people who love doing the mods and seeing how the sound is improving step by step, if you are into it it's the way to go. Personally if I had to choose between extensive mods and the 1200G I would go for the 1200G. Also, the SP25 and the SP10 MK2 can still be found for sensible amount of money. Yes, the less expensive ones don't come with an arm or plinth but I would prefer building a deck to my specs based on those two than the 1200 MK2.

I've been down this route... I had a lot of fun modifying a 1200MK2 but there's no contest, the 1200G is an altogether more refined and musical beast.

I bought a 1200MKII about 2 years ago just out of sheer curiosity having lived with belt drives all of my adult life - LP12, Origin Live, Well Tempered. I really wasn't expecting much from a stock 1200MKII but it didn't take long to realise that there were things this deck did that no belt drive I'd ever heard had ever achieved, so I set about modifying it over the next year and my Well Tempered Versalex was sold on because by the time I'd re-wired the arm on the Technics (overall the biggest difference of any of the mods I did), the Versalex was no longer any competition. In total I performed these mods on the SL1200MKII:
Externalised the power supply, beefed it up following the threads elsewhere on here and replaced the stock motor regulator for an SPower regulator.
Stock platter bearing replaced with a Timestep bearing
Stock rubber platter mat replaced with Funk Achromat
Platter damping removed and replaced with Dynamat
Complete arm rewire from the end of the tube to the RCA connectors from KABUSA along with arm tube dampening
Funk BOING feet fitted
Strobe and speed control removed from circuit

It was all great fun to do and every change was worthwhile. If I was to put them in order of bang for buck then I would say: Arm rewire, PSU mods, platter damping, Achromat, BOING feet, strobe and speed control mods and lastly the bearing which I found to be marginal if I'm honest.

But then I got the itch having read some rave reviews about the 1200G. I was obviously totally invested in Technics and direct drive so I decided it was time to jump in fully. This was back in January 2020 but even back then, the Richer Sounds price had just jumped up to over £3K but I managed to get one from Doug Brady in Warrington for £2600 (I know that this was still the price about 6 months ago, so worth checking with them).

Although I was really enjoying listening to vinyl with the 1200MKII, it didn't take more than a few minutes of listening to the 1200G to realise what was missing with even the modified 1200MKII. There is still a certain 'greyness' (that's the only word I can use to describe it) about the sound of the MKII. It lacks the colour and the sheer scale you get from the 1200G. It follows that if you like the 1200 then you will definitely love the 1200G, but what the 1200G brings most of is finesse. The 1200 always feels like something of a workhorse - A solid and dependable one, the 1200G is just so much more refined and you really do feel like you're extracting everything out of each record you play without limitation or colouration. The guys I chatted to at Doug Brady told me that the 1200G is 90% of the way in terms of sound to a 1000R. This article also went a long way towards convincing me:
https://criterionaudio.com/2019/05/2...rntable-shoot/

To me, and as someone who has been through a fair few turntables, I feel like the 1200G is everything I ever wanted from a good deck. It's an absolute joy to use, there's no faff, no constantly having to tweak about with it. It's pretty much set and forget. It could well be my last turntable.

I guess it depends on how far you modify the SL1200?
I have a different platter and arm on my deck (Funk Strata and FX1200) so I expect the difference not to be that big.
The arm on the 1200G can be improved on, which is one of the biggest changes you can make.
If I go for an SL1200G, I will try the standard arm with a Houdini.

Out of interest, does the old SL1200 arm fit on the newer versions?

I would definitely go for the 1200G if I was to get another Techie.

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Originally Posted by chris@panteg

I would definitely go for the 1200G if I was to get another Techie.

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Agreed, the 1210 is a great deck but too much of a faff to get it to its best, and much of the parts to do that (Mike New bits) are almost unobtanuim these days. My 1210 was modded to the max.

I got rid of it and bought an SP10 mk2 instead and other than a Panzerholz plinth it’s bog standard and is to my ears better than my modded 1210, and looks better too.

From this...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f9f51ffa79.jpg



To this...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1ecbb4cb1f.jpg

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Originally Posted by lovejoy

I've been down this route... I had a lot of fun modifying a 1200MK2 but there's no contest, the 1200G is an altogether more refined and musical beast.

I bought a 1200MKII about 2 years ago just out of sheer curiosity having lived with belt drives all of my adult life - LP12, Origin Live, Well Tempered. I really wasn't expecting much from a stock 1200MKII but it didn't take long to realise that there were things this deck did that no belt drive I'd ever heard had ever achieved, so I set about modifying it over the next year and my Well Tempered Versalex was sold on because by the time I'd re-wired the arm on the Technics (overall the biggest difference of any of the mods I did), the Versalex was no longer any competition. In total I performed these mods on the SL1200MKII:
Externalised the power supply, beefed it up following the threads elsewhere on here and replaced the stock motor regulator for an SPower regulator.
Stock platter bearing replaced with a Timestep bearing
Stock rubber platter mat replaced with Funk Achromat
Platter damping removed and replaced with Dynamat
Complete arm rewire from the end of the tube to the RCA connectors from KABUSA along with arm tube dampening
Funk BOING feet fitted
Strobe and speed control removed from circuit

It was all great fun to do and every change was worthwhile. If I was to put them in order of bang for buck then I would say: Arm rewire, PSU mods, platter damping, Achromat, BOING feet, strobe and speed control mods and lastly the bearing which I found to be marginal if I'm honest.

But then I got the itch having read some rave reviews about the 1200G. I was obviously totally invested in Technics and direct drive so I decided it was time to jump in fully. This was back in January 2020 but even back then, the Richer Sounds price had just jumped up to over £3K but I managed to get one from Doug Brady in Warrington for £2600 (I know that this was still the price about 6 months ago, so worth checking with them).

Although I was really enjoying listening to vinyl with the 1200MKII, it didn't take more than a few minutes of listening to the 1200G to realise what was missing with even the modified 1200MKII. There is still a certain 'greyness' (that's the only word I can use to describe it) about the sound of the MKII. It lacks the colour and the sheer scale you get from the 1200G. It follows that if you like the 1200 then you will definitely love the 1200G, but what the 1200G brings most of is finesse. The 1200 always feels like something of a workhorse - A solid and dependable one, the 1200G is just so much more refined and you really do feel like you're extracting everything out of each record you play without limitation or colouration. The guys I chatted to at Doug Brady told me that the 1200G is 90% of the way in terms of sound to a 1000R. This article also went a long way towards convincing me:
https://criterionaudio.com/2019/05/2...rntable-shoot/

To me, and as someone who has been through a fair few turntables, I feel like the 1200G is everything I ever wanted from a good deck. It's an absolute joy to use, there's no faff, no constantly having to tweak about with it. It's pretty much set and forget. It could well be my last turntable.

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Thats a great write up and like the OP i have been in a similar mindset myself for a while. I love my 1210 with not much else but a rewire from AO and acromat, but damn does it sound fine ! But the itch has been there for a 1200G for a while and i would love to hear the two side by side. I guess your write up sells it to me.
The problem is that even a S/H model is still out of my budget for now, oh well, maybe in a few years.

Out of interest did you try the 1200G with a range of carts ? I came to the conclusion that for me a top notch Audio technica MM cart is all that is needed to get the best out of it, synergy and all that. Or another way of putting it was that MC carts did not seem better musically as a combo than an AT540ML cart. But maybe thats because the arm isn't up to it on the stock 1210 ? So i wonder if it is with the 1200G ? For example, i would love to hear the AT Art 9 with the 1200G. I reckon that combo would be sublime but whats your take here ?

Has much changed with the new arm?

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Originally Posted by SiT4

Out of interest did you try the 1200G with a range of carts ? I came to the conclusion that for me a top notch Audio technica MM cart is all that is needed to get the best out of it, synergy and all that. Or another way of putting it was that MC carts did not seem better musically as a combo than an AT540ML cart. But maybe thats because the arm isn't up to it on the stock 1210 ? So i wonder if it is with the 1200G ? For example, i would love to hear the AT Art 9 with the 1200G. I reckon that combo would be sublime but whats your take here ?

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The 1200G's arm looks very similar to that of the standard 1200/1210 but it's a very different arm which you can feel as soon as you pick it up. Firstly, the new arm is noticeably lighter which is down to the magnesium alloy rather than the aluminium tube of old. When you move the arm towards the centre spindle, you can also feel that movement is much smoother than with the original. Both the gimbal bearings and bearing housing have been re-designed and upgraded and friction is measurably lower. You can feel the whole thing is just of a much higher quality when you're manually cueing, although the feather-lightness of the arm can run away with you when you\re setting up a new cartridge, so that is one to watch. Internal wiring is much higher quality (at least as good as the aftermarket KAB wiring) and is continued through to the headshell, which also looks the same but now also allows azimuth adjustment. The only similarities that are carried through from the original arm seem to be the counterweight and the anti-skate which I think could have been a bit more accurate, but that's a very minor niggle. My only other niggle is the range of VTA adjustment doesn't quite go low enough for some shorter bodied cartridges. I couldn't get the right VTA on my Audio Technica AT-33PTG. You can get around it with shims or a thicker platter mat, but there's a better way around it:

The one real issue I have found with the new arm is that because it is so much lighter, that does narrow your choice of cartridge somehow and you'll need to avoid cartridges with low compliance values. I have tried a number of different cartridges both MM and MC and I can say 100% that a good MC will really sing so long as it's a good match for the arm. My Shure M-55e with Shibata stylus and Audio Technica AT-95 with fine line stylus sound great, but they're no match for the AT-33PTG which sounds stunning on the 1200G (when setup correctly). I was hoping to use my old Dynavector DV20X2L MC as it had been my overall favourite for a good while, but it sounded dull and lifeless on the 1200G at first. I was lucky enough to get hold of a SoundSmith Carmen MKII for a great price which is a moving iron and that worked very nicely but in the back of my mind I knew it was capable of more, so I'd started thinking that maybe the arm was the bottleneck and pondered changing it, but then I got wind of the Funk Houdini so I thought I'd give that a try and that has solved all remaining issues. With the Houdini in place, ALL of my cartridges are performing at their best and it also solves the problem of the VTA not going low enough as it is basically a 6mm shim. The combination with the 1200G arm and Houdini is the best vinyl replay I've ever heard anywhere and you can now choose whatever cartridge you like. Like yourself I think the ART-9 or something from that family is going to be my next move, but there's plenty of life in the Dynavector and the SoundSmith yet..

Sounds like the arm on your 1200/1210 had worn bearings if I am honest.
Mine is as smooth as it could possibly be.

I was intrigued as people say that the arm is still not great, and big improvements can be made by changing it out.
There is no doubt that the 1200G is a class act though.

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Originally Posted by lovejoy

The 1200G's arm looks very similar to that of the standard 1200/1210 but it's a very different arm which you can feel as soon as you pick it up. Firstly, the new arm is noticeably lighter which is down to the magnesium alloy rather than the aluminium tube of old. When you move the arm towards the centre spindle, you can also feel that movement is much smoother than with the original. Both the gimbal bearings and bearing housing have been re-designed and upgraded and friction is measurably lower. You can feel the whole thing is just of a much higher quality when you're manually cueing, although the feather-lightness of the arm can run away with you when you\re setting up a new cartridge, so that is one to watch. Internal wiring is much higher quality (at least as good as the aftermarket KAB wiring) and is continued through to the headshell, which also looks the same but now also allows azimuth adjustment. The only similarities that are carried through from the original arm seem to be the counterweight and the anti-skate which I think could have been a bit more accurate, but that's a very minor niggle. My only other niggle is the range of VTA adjustment doesn't quite go low enough for some shorter bodied cartridges. I couldn't get the right VTA on my Audio Technica AT-33PTG. You can get around it with shims or a thicker platter mat, but there's a better way around it:

The one real issue I have found with the new arm is that because it is so much lighter, that does narrow your choice of cartridge somehow and you'll need to avoid cartridges with low compliance values. I have tried a number of different cartridges both MM and MC and I can say 100% that a good MC will really sing so long as it's a good match for the arm. My Shure M-55e with Shibata stylus and Audio Technica AT-95 with fine line stylus sound great, but they're no match for the AT-33PTG which sounds stunning on the 1200G (when setup correctly). I was hoping to use my old Dynavector DV20X2L MC as it had been my overall favourite for a good while, but it sounded dull and lifeless on the 1200G at first. I was lucky enough to get hold of a SoundSmith Carmen MKII for a great price which is a moving iron and that worked very nicely but in the back of my mind I knew it was capable of more, so I'd started thinking that maybe the arm was the bottleneck and pondered changing it, but then I got wind of the Funk Houdini so I thought I'd give that a try and that has solved all remaining issues. With the Houdini in place, ALL of my cartridges are performing at their best and it also solves the problem of the VTA not going low enough as it is basically a 6mm shim. The combination with the 1200G arm and Houdini is the best vinyl replay I've ever heard anywhere and you can now choose whatever cartridge you like. Like yourself I think the ART-9 or something from that family is going to be my next move, but there's plenty of life in the Dynavector and the SoundSmith yet..

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Another great write up. Thanks for your insights here. Let us know if you go down the ART 9 route !

1210 Mk7 just released

Initial (knee-jerk) impressions:

I spent last weekend resetting up my SL-1200MK2 that has a Mike New Audio bearing and a Trans-Fi T3 Pro Terminator linear/air bearing arm. I also spent some time with the newly arrived SL-1200G with magnesium tonearm.

Using the same cartridge/headshell combination (and since it's been a while since I've had it set up) it smacked me in the face how good the modded 1200MK2 is. Honestly, I think it edged out the 1200G just by a little bit. I believe much of that has to do with linear tracking over pivoted. However, the Mike New bearing is just a beast...a very, very, very, quiet beast. I was reminded what a jump it was going to that from a stock 1200MK2 (which I also have aided by a KAB Fluid Damper) which in and of itself is quite good. No doubt the 1200G is a step above that and very well may be the equal or maybe even better than the modded 1200MK2. The verdict is still out on that. I'll have to do more listening. One thing I do not believe will change is that both the 1200G and modded 1200MK2 will consistently beat out the stock 1200MK2. At this point, I won't be getting rid of either the modded 1200MK2 or the 1200G. In fact, I won't be getting rid of the stock deck, either.

There's no doubt about it with a few mods a mk2 1200 can become a great sounding deck and once people put aside that "DJ" label out performs many similar price offerings from elsewhere. Plus for a relatively small outlay carrying out the mods most of which can be carried out in the comfort of your own home,it becomes a great platform to try alternative cartridges and tonearms.
My wife maintains she prefers the sound of the Technics over my Gyrodec,but as she is hard of hearing so i ignore her.

The problem with owning any deck that has been maxed out is then to consider what to do for your next project. I started with the 1210 fully modded (which I still own) and have ended up with 5 decks sitting in my listening room!

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Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables

The problem with owning any deck that has been maxed out is then to consider what to do for your next project. I started with the 1210 fully modded (which I still own) and have ended up with 5 decks sitting in my listening room!

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:lol:

Truth spoken, here.

At last check, 12 decks in total (half of them 1200's). :doh:

There are worse vices.

In most cases I sell on the decks I don’t use, but I now own 3 Thorens decks a 125, and 2 x 160’s, I just can’t help myself when I see a bargain

My latest project is the heybrook tt2 which is a really good deck. Fancied one For ages and one came along at the right price , I’ve been having a a ball with it so far. The other decks haven’t been played for weeks

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Originally Posted by Jac Hawk

In most cases I sell on the decks I don’t use, but I now own 3 Thorens decks a 125, and 2 x 160’s, I just can’t help myself when I see a bargain

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Originally Posted by Wakefield Turntables

My latest project is the heybrook tt2 which is a really good deck. Fancied one For ages and one came along at the right price , I’ve been having a a ball with it so far. The other decks haven’t been played for weeks

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The Thorens and the Heybrook (at least in appearance) are very similar to my current project: Thorens 150 MKII A/B.

As it is at present, I don't have the slightest desire to change anything on the 1200G, save maybe the platter mat. It already has better footers, motor controller and I can't see tossing the magnesium arm which terminates to RCA's so you already use the IC's of your choice. I haven't done a complete tear down however the bearing certainly seems stable and noiseless (I concede it's still new.) And...... I finally have something to play my great uncle's 78 rpm's on! (There is the Dual 1019 but I haven't even cleaned the dust off it yet.)

Yep the Thorens and Heybrook TT2 are similar except the Thorens IMO is better. I've done the 150, 160, 160Super, so I'm reasonably well versed. The TT2 was the better motor but slightly less speed stability, I've tinkered with a few Thornens and managed to get RPM within .1RPM of 33.3RPM sometimes spot on. This TT2 TBH is the only example I've ever owned and I've tried two belts, the original and an after market. The after market was too tight and buggered the suspension, the original is old and maybe slightly dysfunctional, this example spins at 33.5 rpm, so not perfect but very enjoyable and a blast for experimentation and spinning tunes. The suspension design is better on the TT2 the Thorens and extremely easy to set up, I've seen numerous versions of the sprung suspension system on the 150/160 range, the TT2 just had the one design. So, TT2 for me! I'd leave the 1200G alone if its giving you pleasure, maybe get the Mr. Sheen / polishing cloth out for the Dual?