Thoughts chaps?
Does any one own a pair and/or have experience with them?
S.
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Thoughts chaps?
Does any one own a pair and/or have experience with them?
S.
I been reading about them recently too, I'd like to have a go with a pair if they were cheaper ... The logical bit of my brain says that surly they just add to treble in the audible frequency they cover and then how can they possibly add somthing above the frequencys that a cd produces... But then the other part of my brain says balls to logic, everything that is available on the Internet to read about these things says good things so they must do something... Right??
I'm kinda suprised marco doesn't have some of those tannoy st**'s on top his speakers ...
One of my pals is running a pair of Cambridge R50s. They use the famous Kef set up similar to Linn Isobarik (B139 oval solid styrene bass driver, B110 and T27's like in LS3/5a) but they also run ribbon supertweets.He's changed both the tweets to ? and supertweets to ? expensive ribbons. He swears by them. I've heard them and his system is fantastic. As to if the supertweets make a differerence I don't know. I've read that the extended range at the top can give the impression of extended lower freq response but I cannot comment as his the R50's are TL and go down way low in any case. I've often wondered if the likes of Townshend supertweets are really worth the pricetag or if it is largely hype?!?!?:scratch:
Like all things, I suppose it depends on the rest of the system.
All my friends (some of them objectivists, I must say) who have supertweeters can't live without.
The problem is that once you put them, there's no going back : in that, they all agree. :)
Coles 4001. best ever super tweeter
I played around with some Coles a few years back - don't know how they'd compare to the new breed of modern ones though.
They definately seem to add air and space.At one of our DIY do's,a pair was tried with some DIY Jericho horns,using a Fostex fullrange driver,and the difference was not subtle, very obvious.As Dimitri says,you won't go back!
My hearing goes upto about 16-17kHz. I physically cannot hear anything above that, so supertweeters cannot possibly make any difference to the sound I hear, even if the material I play has higher frequencies recorded.
But there again, I am not ashamed to say that no matter how much I try I cannot hear any difference between 32kHz and 44.1kHz, or 48kHz (given the same high quality source material), despite being able to hear differences in quality elsewhere in the chain, and between different Dacs. I accept that some can, but I also feel that many people can't, they are just too ashamed to say so.
Needless to say, I will not be buying any supertweeters this side of a lottery win!
Kris.
Celestion 'HF1300', Coles '4001' combination Spendor 'BC1'/'2', B&W 'DM2'/'4' etcQuote:
Originally Posted by The Grand Wazoo
You should try. All the people I know can't hear much above 14kHz either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Can't comment easily about the sample rate differences, there are too many variables involved. I can say that I can't hear them through headphones, though. It's easier through speakers, and easier if you don't necessarily look for them. ;)
It's a well known fact that you can't hear much above 15Khz but you can certainly hear a super tweeter in operation - it adds air and space and is difficult to do without once you have heard it.
Back in the early 80's I used to have a pair of cheapo Piezo super-tweets on flying leads with croc clips on the end. I used to tack them on to any and every speaker I got my hands on and most agreed that it was an improvement. I don't think it cost more than 8 quid to do....:)
I should just add that I'm open minded about it, just extremely sceptical. . . .
So was I till I heard it for myself.
I find this a sane attitude Kris, I'm the same as you. But when I see some hardcore objectivists use them, my logic gets alerted. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris
Myself I postponed buying supertweeters because I had more severe problems to address with my system.
Yeah, I know the feeling. Lack of speaker terminals on the Dansette . . .:eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
Anyone got any comments on these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Tannoy-Pre...item4cecd621b2
The look nice but thats normally enough for me!!!:lolsign:
The Coles super tweeters in my BC2's do still work, although they're wired out of phase with the HF1300 in an attempt to reduce the 14KHz resonance in the Celestions.. To be honest, they just help hf dispersion a tad, but little else..
I read and saw measurements on the Tannoy super-tweeter pods, which actually came in at a perfectly audible 8 - 10KHz and only went out to 28KHz or so before rolling out. I suspect their main function is to smooth out the wayward pepperpots in the main drivers or, bearing in mind the prestige series sound so mellow, to liven things up a little..
Ali
Have you heard Colin's ESL63's with the Fostex supertweeter ?
The combination took a fair bit of tweaking to get right, but they sound absolutely stunning.
I last heard them being driven by Nick's 211 amp, and the combination was just awesome.
Chris:)
63's don't need a supertweeter, not if they're angled back and raised off the floor a foot or two... :confused:
Chris,no I haven't.Perhaps he'll bring them to Owston.
Dave,have you tried supertweeters with 63's?
They are on stands raised off the floor and angled slightly back, and defineately benefit with the HF help. The HF units are very attenuated, and roll in around 12kHz (ie just where the Quads are rolling off).Quote:
Originally Posted by DSJR
Chris:)
Ali
Colin's on his Tang Band project at the moment; I think we're more likely to see these than the Quads.
Chris:)
When I had my Martin Logans some years back, I had a pair of Townshend super tweeters on loan (Max lives just down the road from me). It was strange, they added not only a little more air as one would expect, but they also added mid and bass clarity. I can't really explain why. I didn't go for them in the end despite the positives, the imaging was so good on the MLs that when the supertweeters were added the imaging became more two dimensional, and that was too big a price to pay.
Had I have wanted more crispness only, then the supertweeters would have been a superb addition, with the benefits of added clarity further down the scale, but repositioning the angle of the stators cured the slightly muffled presentation (take the word slightly as 'infinitesimally'). Very expensive too at £800 a pair.
**EDIT** They now seem to be £499 per pair.
There's probably still a lot of fat in the bottom line at £499.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filterlab
Chris;)
I found after a while that I could get a good proportion of the effect of the Coles from using open baffles (the air and ambience side of things) and later I discovered my current Mirage speakers which do the same sort of thing but add bass.
I'd completely agree with the effect that they have on the lower regions - completely inexplicable to a logical mind!
An impeded ability to hear high frequencies will most certainly not mean that super tweeters will do nothing for you.
I use a pair of CTS Powerline piezos to give my fullrangers a bit more sparkle at the top end.I remember seeing a pair on top of Jimmy Hughes Impulse speakers i HiFi Answers many years ago.
I don't doubt that for one second mate! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmangler
My understanding is that the effect of supertweeters has more to do with how we process and perceive sound, rather than extending the audible spectrum. It's the same for sub bass, but you notice and feel the inaudible vibration more readily . The processing of real sound (as opposed to reproduced sound) by the human 'DAC' must consider these vibrations which are detected by the body - converting sound vibrations to a perceived 'realistic' sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi_dave
These cheap Piezo horn supertweeters are still available from Maplin; they just need a resistor in line to minimise the output and you can have a play for less than £10. I used them on TDL transmission line floorstanders for years and they did as much for bass texture and tone as they did for creating additonal air and space - I felt they just made the reproduced sound for all frequencies more real!
I'll try to find the Jimmy Hughes article and post it.
Ok, I'm up for it at that price. What's the resister value?Quote:
These cheap Piezo horn supertweeters are still available from Maplin; they just need a resistor in line to minimise the output and you can have a play for less than £10. I used them on TDL transmission line floorstanders for years and they did as much for bass texture and tone as they did for creating additonal air and space - I felt they just made the reproduced sound for all frequencies more real!
On condition I don't have to turn up the corners of my curtains with safety pins. :lol:Quote:
I'll try to find the Jimmy Hughes article and post it.
These ones?:Quote:
Originally Posted by electric beach
Link image
http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/300/wf56l.jpg
What resistor value would you use?
No idea of the value, I'll find the article this evening.
I think there were two elements actually, the second to limit the lower frequency cut off, but in a very simple way.
No further trickery required!
Aye I know,he's got plenty room in the car though! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratmangler
Yes I know, but that then means dragging the GM70 SE Monos to drive the Quads.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Tait
I think the best thing to do is just ask if he can bring them along.
Chris:)
id quite like to have a crack at this too!Quote:
Originally Posted by electric beach
i dont have the desire to spend hundreds to find out weather or not this supertweeter thing works for me, but id def have a go for less than £10
from the maplins web site
Quote:
This tweeter is designed to give a wide dispersion pattern and is therefore ideal in stereo hi-fi systems and in high quality disco and PA systems. Piezo tweeters are capacitative therefore automatically reject low frequency power and are inherently high impedance. Therefore, this can be wired directly across a woofer without the need for a crossover. Because modern amps can produce very high frequencies (typically up to 100kHz) it is recommended to wire a 47Ω 3W resistor (order code: W47R) in series with each tweeter to limit damaging high frequency resonance.
Just had a look at my piezo crossover 550NF cap with 33 ohm resistor in series with 22ohm across the piezo.I think I got this from the DIYAUDIO archive section a few years ago, seems to do the job .
If you do get some of these Maplin things, prepare to be get exactly what you pay for. The build quality isn't exactly monumental!
Oh, and if you screw them into a cabinet, don't overtighten them, because they crack easily around the mounting screws.
Thats right chris, infact some of the expensive ribbons are crap aswell.
Another thing to consider is getting a steep enough roll off as you go down the frequencies - those tweeters are working from around 4 kHz upwards.
If you cross over to them too low and with too shallow a slope then their effects will be all too audible. And not in a beneficial way.
Chris:)
well i would love to have a go at this if anyone is willing to give me very indepth instructions on what bits to get and how to do it!
Hamish get something like these Tanny ST50 you just plonk onto of your speakers, these particular ones have level & frequency adjustments, quite expensive tho but others make simular
http://www.tannoy.com/ResidentialSum...aBnpZtj9yMmgQ=
http://83.138.162.162/products/148/st50.pdf
A bit more than a £10 experiment Andre!
Can be more than £10 can be more than £10 if you don't know what your doing
The ones at £299 on eBay seem to be pretty cheap for those particular units, but I don't have that sorta cash to chuck about at the mo... Hense my interest in spending a tenner!
Snap.Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish
Kris.
come on clever diy folk ... links to bits and how too pictures and diagrams please :)
Hi
I have a pair of these tweeters in the garage somewhere,anyone lives local to Leigh lancs are welcome to them for nowt,in fact there may be 2 pairs for the same price.
Regards Dave.
Hamish,
I'd love to help, mate but I don't think I'm qualified!
I'm sure someone else has the requisite knowledge - guys?
I have posted this before somewhere but here goes, the tweeters as you know are avialable from Maplins but instead of farting about with resisters just buy a pairs of "L Pads" from
https://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/cat...96869eb397b0cd
You can then wire these and adjust the volume or rolloff point to your hearts content, you will just have to make up some sort of box's to house it all in, this is where i used them
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3341
If i had the spare change i would buy a pair of the Townshend ribbon supertweeters as these are better than the Tannoys or so i have been told by more than one dealer