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Hi, I am newbie to vinyl world. Can someone suggest me what upgrade shall i look on my TT. I know there are many tweaks which can transform Technics tt to different level, but money will play a part as well. I am taking simultaneous steps to build it slowly. thanks
Take the dust cover off when you play a record.
Hi there. Check out KAB ( www.kabusa.com ). The owner, Kevin is extremely friendly & helpful. The majority of the site is about upgrading & modding Technics 1200's. I personally started with new tonearm wire & a new Cardas phono interconnect hardwired to the deck, so now I have pure litz wire going from the cartridge to the phono pre. The sound difference is extremely noticeable. It becomes much clearer with an overall soundstage upgrade. Better bass response, clearer mids, & beautiful high end. I didn't expect that much of a difference, but was pleasantly surprised. = )
Hope that helps you out a bit.
- Nick
KAB is a USA based site and to order from there I have to pay rhe custom duty as well. what tonearm are you using on TT. thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by hiwattnick
I unfortunately didn't even think about the custom duty. Too bad there's no way around that, that I know of.
Right now I'm just using the stock arm. With the litz wire going from the cartridge to the phono pre, I'm really pretty satisfied with it for now. Of course I'd love to try some other arms, but as you said, money becomes an issue, & I do what I can when I can. It's a fun journey, but can be an expensive one too.
And the next mod I'm going to do is the KAB fluid damper, which is specifically designed for the stock tonearm.
What type of headshell & cartridge are you using right now?
And you don't necessarily have to buy the new tonearm wire from KAB as long as its Cardas.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
The stock wire in the 1200's arm is not good.
There is a whole section dedicated to the Technichs decks where there is loads on information on upgrades
http://theartofsound.net/forum/forum...he-Techiepedia
Alan
@hiwattnick
So it means, there is no point to spend money on rewire the tonearm. its better to buy jelco arm. I just surfing on this forum and one of a member offer a discount on Jelco 750d some time ago. I am not sure if he is still offering it with free sleeves. If someone can confirm here. Also some comments confusing me that its worth to upgrade or buy a new turntable. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
Thanks. I will go through these forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by 337alant
I think the first upgrade is to buy a record cleaning machine and some Art D'son fluid.
No point in doing any upgrades and then playing uncleaned records...
Then Cartridge, even a 30 quid At95e will sound FAR better than the DJ cart it probably came with.
Next up, rewire the tone arm, warning - this job isnt for the faint hearted :)
The stock arm is fine btw.
Most people who say to get another arm maybe havn't heard a rewired stock arm, especially with a Kab tone arm damper fitted.
Stock arms often sound crap because the wire Technics used is rubbish, and on a 20 year old arm its gonna be oxidised badly.
Next mod, get an Ian Mac bearing, massive improvement !
Then, get a decent phono stage, I recommend a secondhand LFD Audio MMO, sounds lovely !
Then after that, the mods only make more subtle differences, Mat, Feet, power supply...
First of all you have to move power transformer from SL-1200 body into separate standalone case. It's also good time to replace internal voltage regulator to external one - i.e. make (or buy) high quality separate PSU. No sense (my opinion, of course) to make any Technics upgrade if you have transformer attached to SL-1200 frame.
I thought it was better for the voltage regulator to be near the motor ? That's why they do 2 part power supplies.
And yes, its a fairly easy mod just to relocate the power supply, but tbh I found changing to an external power supply only makes a subtle difference.
I actually bought a KAB voltage regulator (which is made extremely well), with plans to either relocate, or more likely buy a KAB PSU. The stuff that Kevin designs & produces are always of the highest quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khom
But as I'm sure you know, it's an ongoing project which makes it fun. Each upgrade seems to make a difference.
The biggest difference I noticed so far was replacing the tonearm wires with a KAB rewire kit, & a new PCB with Cardas interconnects already assembled.
My next purchase will be a tonearm fluid damper. Is yours the KAB fluid damper?
I believe it is better to upgrade. The 1200's, IMO are already an excellent table, but can be upgraded to be amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
I believe the stock tonearm is fine (sorry if I was unclear about that), but there's nothing wrong with upgrading it if that's what you want to do. It's also about how much you are willing or want to spend on the upgrades.
I personally used the deck as stock for a few years, & have been slowly upgrading it now for almost 2 years. I also consider new cartridges to be upgrades too. So I take that into account.
Overall, it's about having fun & enjoying music! = )
I agree, I've got the same tone arm wiring kit from Kab.
Did make a big difference.
The tone arm damper improves the bass a bit but don't expect a massive change.
Better to put the money towards an Ian Mac bearing, that did make a noticable difference, massively improved the bass.
But I think the thing with the whole 1210 upgrading is that you can easily spend a lot of money and only get a subtle difference,
Whereas is that money was spent on other things, ie a speaker or an amp upgrade then the sonic improvement would be much greater..
EG, the cost to change up from a Brio R to an Elex R is about the same cost as a decent outboard power supply, but the amp upgrade is FAR more noticable...
And dont get me started on my RS1 to RS7 change,,now thats an upgrade :)
Yes, absolutely. The KAB rewire & the KAB litz RCA wiring made the biggest turntable upgrade difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Wood
And you're right about the upgrades, each only giving small improvements, while the money could probably be better spent on component upgrades. I guess you end up just chasing the turntable dragon.
How would I go about getting an Ian Mac bearing? He's on this forum, correct? Are his bearings expensive? I'd be very interested in trying a new bearing, but wasn't about to she'll out almost $700 for a Mike New, which I think may have even stopped being produced, last I heard.
Thanks Jeff Wood, Where i can rewire the tonearm and buy kab damper. I live in midlands. uk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Wood
Thanks for the replies.
I will start with rewire the tonearm and buy KAB tonearm damping as everyone agrees with it. I all ready have ortofon 2m blue cartridge. If anyone help me where i can buy KAB tonearm damping and rewire kit. Also how hard it is to assemble myself. thanks
Google "KAB USA" and you should find them.
Great choice with the 2M blue. It's quite better than the red IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
You can order the rewire kit from www.kabusa.com just as Kevin had mentioned. I do have to warn you though, that you should have some experience with soldering before you try & tackle the rewire. You can do it though. Just take your time, & be mindful of what you're doing. Kevin from KAB sent me this link when I ordered the rewire kit. I hope It is helpful.
And if you can, I'd order the KAB SpiralAir / Cardas phono interconnects soldered to the PCB, & terminated to Neutrik Rean RCA plugs. Kevin mentioned that he is going to use those instead of the ART pop RCA plugs from now on. That's what I've got, & I think they're great. I believe it might make more sense to do that 1st, before the tonearm damper.
If you can afford all 3 though, I believe that you will be very pleased with the outcome. Not to mention, withe the shipping to the UK, it would probably make more sense to grab all 3 at once if possible.
http://kabusa.com/arm-rewire.pdf
it make sense to order all in one go to save the pastage cost. How many feet KAB spiral air/cardas cable you have ordered? the only expencive thing is tonearm damping kit. i am still confuse how that piece make that much difference.
The KAB/SpiralAir Cardas cable can be chosen & ordered as 3.5ft. (aprox. 1 meter) already soldered to a KAB PCB on 1 side & Neutrik Rean RCA plugs on the other, made to be hardwired into the turntable. That's the one that costs $74.95 I believe. Then the rewire kit (which is litz wire) needs to be soldered to the PCB, & through the tonearm. That one, i believe is $28, & comes with the wires cut to the proper lenth, & already has the ends tinned. Litz wire is not the easiest thing to tin, & it makes sense to buy it already done. Cardas is made up of litz wire too, so you'll then have litz going all the way from the cartridge to the phono preamp.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
Those 2 upgrades are going to make the biggest improvement to your sound, & you could always buy the fluid damper later. That's how I planned on doing it, but then again I didn't have the costly shipping charges.
The fluid damper helps with things like tracking, the overall soundstage, a darker sounding background, & an overall "smoother" effect, for lack of better words.
There is so much moreinformation on the KAB site about the modding process, & it explains the fluid damper in much greater detail & depth. IMHO, you should read as much as you can on the KAB sight, & you can always contact Kevin, the owner. He is always very friendly, very helpful, & responds to your emails very promptly. He has been a leading force in keeping the Technics 1200 not just a DJ table, but an audiophile one too (which it was originally intended as) for almost 30 yrs at this point.
I hope that I helped you out, & answered your questions. I apologize if I told you things you already knew too. = )
- Nick
Here is a link to a review of the fluid damper that is also available on the KAB site. Hope it helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussio...2Bfluid-damper
If i do all the updates to tonearm, it will cost me around £250 and plus time. You can call it fun or what so ever. On the other hand I can second hand Jelco tonearm 750d for around £300. Which probably will be a nice improvement. What you think???? :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch:
I have done both:scratch:. Though the Technics arm is a major improvement once rewired and shrink wrapped it can be improved on. With a good cart you will be probably be very happy. Its also easy to adjust and set up. I found the Jelco sa-750 a lovely built arm and a nice change to the clarity of my music. Initially fitted with a Ortofon 2m Blue(Excellent cart for the money) it was very happy. Upgraded to a 2M Black and it sounded amazing. Its all down to what you want to spend. Also remember most Jelco arms dont come with the RCA cable so factor that into costs.
I 100% agree with Dubster68 / Mick. As I had mentioned in a much earlier thread, the cartridge is going to make the biggest difference, & then moving on to upgrading or modding the tonearm is next. You've got the cart covered w/ a 2M blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
Also with a Jelco arm, besides the RCA cables, you may also need to purchase a mounting plate & posdibly a mounting ring?
It depends on what the second hand arm comes with. I have never tried out both arms the way Dubster68 has either.
His opinion on the subject, which he voiced, is probably your best bet.
I still hope I've helped you out, & wish you luck in your search, & I still believe it can be a fun journey or whatever.
Thanks for the suggestins. I will update the original tonearm and keep my turntable in original look. Thanks Dubster68 and hiwattnick. I sent the email to KAB for a quote.
BikramQuote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
The tone arm rewire and a bit of foam packing makes a good mod if using a good cart. And most importantly its and easy cheap mod:D
That was a good choice IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
The rewire kit now comes with a rubber tube that fits perfectly inside the tonearm tube. It also comes with cotton strips to fill the ends on the tonearm. I've heard of people putting foam type ear plugs in the ends too, but I don't feel that's necessary with the rubber liner & cotton.
So once again, Dubster68 was on top of that extra "cheap mod" which is now free! = )
You can also contact Kevin @ KAB with any questions too. I think I mentioned that to you. He's a great guy.
Good luck, & let me know how it comes out!
personally I'd probably put the tone arm damper further down the list.
might be better to use some of that cash to pay an expert to do the re wiring job.
And btw, you dont have to use KAB's cable for that, you can buy "discovery" cable in the UK which some people say is better.
Trust me on this, if you attempt the rewire yourself and accidently snap a cable then all that money is wasted, not to mention the damage you'll do to everything and everyone around you in a fit of rage :)
Johnnie at Audio Origami did a great job on mine, wouldn't hurt to get a quote from him:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Wood
www.audioorigami.co.uk
Hi Jeff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Wood
You know anyone in Midlands who can help me to rewire the tonearm? Or i can drive about 50 miles, if required. thanks
I forgot to mention that i have took the tonearm out a few months ago, because up and down mechanism needs greasing. I have seen some you tube videos and positive that i can do this. Its more risky to post your TT for rewire I think, because the guys who worked in courier companies they do not handle parcel with care.
Hi, sorry I dont know anyone personally.
I've heard of Audio Origami, so might be an idea to see how much they would charge, you could just post the arm to them.
And yes, it is diy do-able, but its a horrible fiddly job..
Best beach bar in tne world that mate, and Mambo of course!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Wood
I just rewired the tonearm with Cardas 33 awg and carads solder. It took me 4 hours to rewire the arm, but its worth in the end. The sound is much better and i can heard base as well. Also sound is much open now. It cost me total £20 and 4 hours. lol. Next step will be Kab tonearm damping. Is external power make any noticeable difference. I saw SL6 make a nice post to upgrade the power supply.
Yes it is fiddly job indeed. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Wood
So it is! Although I already have a VDH-rewired Origin Live modded OL1/RB250 arm, I also tried to rewire the stock arm last January. Partly out of curiosity and also because the OL lacks precise and convenient VTF and VTA adjustability. Especially setting VTF on the OL is a real pain in the neck. Setting VTA is so-so with a threaded VTA-adjuster. Both are far better executed on the stock arm.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
I also used Cardas 33AWG for internal wiring. For external wiring I chose not-too-expensive Tasker C301 shielded low capacitance microphone cable, which does it's job very nicely. In the end, the OL arm still sounded way better. Maybe because the VDH cable is a bit better than Cardas/Tasker, but surely because the OL arm had far better tracking abilities (very apparent when using a test record for cartridge set-up).
I only encountered one major problem: the two tiny screws which hold the SME headshell connector wouldn't tighten anymore once loosened, no matter what I tried. This caused the SME connector to have 'rotational' play (or was it azimuth adjustability? :scratch:). To fixate it I ended up glueing the connector in the armtube (combined with the two original screws).
Has anyone here who has done the rewire job also come across this problem?
The mat really needs replacing to stop excessive ringing of the platter. Start here IMO, as it is low cost and pays dividends to get right.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
What platter is good and advised here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomanze
Without getting into silly money, keep the original platter and use a Funk Firm Achromat 1200.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Funk-Firm-A.../dp/B0075VJJR2
Ok. i have added it into my wish list. thanks
Are you using external power supply?
Bikram,
I also think the Acromat is wonderful, I wholeheartedly recommend it.
Check your PM, I have a shopping list for you.
Hi 6L6,Quote:
Originally Posted by 6L6
Thanks. I have sent you the message. Much appreciated your help.
Hows the mods going Bikram ?
It is going good. Now i am working on external PSU , but not having enough time. Waiting for the Christmas holidays. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dubster68
External PSU is a good upgrade. Good luck with it and loads of advice can be found on here. Members were brilliant when I was upgrading stuff and their knowledge is amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
Are you thinking to upgrade the baring, let me know, how it will perform. cheersQuote:
Originally Posted by Dubster68
Quote:
Originally Posted by kambo_z
No I have changed Turntables so the upgraded Mike New bearing is for sale. Its an amazing upgrade for the technics turntables. Have a look at some of the posts on this worthwhile upgrade.
What have you changed to ?