what is the best shape, and type of room for audio reproduction?
ie, long, narrow,high cielings, window, bay windows, etc.
describe your own, and what seems to work in your house.
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what is the best shape, and type of room for audio reproduction?
ie, long, narrow,high cielings, window, bay windows, etc.
describe your own, and what seems to work in your house.
one I can have to myself, at least some of the time, I'll work with any problems it has.
Given recent input from certain parties, how about a padded cell? :lol:
Marco.
Well, you don't want to duplicate the dimensions. The length vs the width vs the height should all be different. Most people put their speakers in front of a short wall. Some people will tell you a long wall is better. Those that do must have very large rooms cause in most rooms you'd be sitting awfully close to your speakers or with little room behind them or behind you, maybe both, and that's not good. Your speakers should be out from the corners and away from the walls but not by the same distance. You should sit between them at the apex of an equilateral or equidistant triangle with the speakers toed in more or less. Toe in is subjective. But, you were asking about the room. Besides, you probably already know that stuff. I say a rectangular room is best with speakers in front of a short wall and as little bulky furnishings in your listening space as is possible. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
A spherical room would easily be the best, however in real life terms it's almost impossible to achieve. As Jim said, any room with unique measurements per dimension, non-parallel walls are ideal (My lounge has four non-parallel walls) and carpet rather than hard floors, several surfaces, plenty of soft furnishings and somewhere to sit. :)
I'm surprised at Jim's recommendations for speaker placement. There cannot be a general rule as there are too many different types.
Back-to-the-wall Briks, SBLs & Saras
Rear ported well away from rear wall.
Front ported less fussy
Corner horns !!!!!!
Each manufacturer of each type has their own recommendation; then there's size to take into account; etcetera, ad nauseum.
I read once that the ideal listening room doesn't have any parallel sides; not something found (or even redesigned to be) in your average dwelling.
This philosophy holds water when you condider the adverse effects of standing waves.
Ceilings? My 10 foot high Victorian ones a few years ago were excellent with Briks, SBLs. Epos, Rogers and ProAc.
Anything less that your customary 8' 1'' starts to get tricky with anything but bookshelf type speakers, I feel
It wasn't evident that I was refering to front firing box speakers. My bad. But the rule, and it didn't originate with me, DOES generally apply other than for corner speakers and room nodes and wall and boundary reinforcement is the reason. Some older speakers are designed to be placed with their backs on the wall. I wouldn't be talking about those either.
Guitar shaped tables, guitar shaped plug block... I think a guitar shaped room is the next logical creation for Music Works. :D
This sounds like a room that could have been created by Anton Gaudí.
http://www.red2000.com/spain/barcelon/phgau.html
Guitar-shaped room, eh? Saw one of these in a vile inn once (terrible place!)
Not too difficult to acquire if you pull a few strings! AND get a bridging loan!
Oh very droll Mike. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Reed
From The Grave
Get speakers that are designed to work with the room and not fight it.
All speaker designed anechoically will fight with a live acoustic.
Not that I've had my system in that many different rooms to compare, but I have landed on two things that I definitely prefer when setting up a room:
- In any given rectangular space, fire across the room if you can (i.e. across the short side). This avoids side reflections, which destroy clarity.
- Use room treatment, including your own furnishings. Get to the point where a finger snap in the middle of the quiet room won't create flutter echo (you'll know it when you hear it). A near-dead room is a much better starting point for setting up a system.
Oh, and who said in an earlier post "a room that I can have to myself"? Spot-on, mate!
Non parallel walls ?
Yup, I agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
I've moved home a few times over the years. I've always found in a rectangular room that it sounds best to me when the speakers are against the long wall, firing across the narrower width.
Yes, you do tend to end up in a 'near-field' type of listening, but as Martin says, that's no bad thing as it significantly reduces room reflection effects, ime.
Mmmm ... depends on the speakers. When I got my omni MBLs I had to take down some absorbing panels behind them as they were definitely spoiling the sound. I still have an absorbent panel behind the listening chair, as this helps a lot with the chair quite close to the rear wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Yep, I've got me one of those. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
My listening is approximately 16' x 9' and has no less than 2 huge windows, a large glass door plus a full height side panel of glass, an "internal" patio door which divides my listening room from the lounge, so there is very little actual wall surface. To add to my woes I have a bouncy suspended wooden floor immediately above a huge void below, which has been converted into a shed which acts like an additional bass enhancement chamber :eek:
No wonder it has taken many changes of speakers to find a pair that don't clash with that lot :eyebrows:
Nasty, Frank. Have you tried decoupling your speakers from the floor (e.g. sorbothane) rather than coupling (such as spikes)?
Spikes just makes matters worse Martin, so at one time I had the standard granite slabs under the spikes which eased matters somewhat, then after Pete (Zanash) visited I popped some insulation pipe slices under the granite which was a marked improvement. I had to part with the granite chopping boards to sweeten the deal when a chap bought my Revel Performas, so I put large scrap 20mm thick MDF sheets under the speakers mainly because I couldn't be fussed to go and buy some more granite chopping boards and the bigger footprint has made the speakers more stable. I think this arrangement works better than the spikes/granite/pipe slices arrangement did.
Ive found over the last few years and house moves that I also prefer to listen nearfield, as the room interferes less. It isn't great sitting too close to the back wall so a little compromise is needed. I am lucky that my Royds were designed for near field and have worked in each new room they've been in so far. I hope they will also work after the next house move!
Joe ackroyd specifies my speakers ought to be away from the back wall, and ideally twice as far apart as the distance to the listener. They should toe in just behind the listener. I haven't come across many speakers with such unusual setup instructions.
A mate of mine now uses 2 gel filled wrist rests under granite slabs to decouple his Celestion A3's. His listening room has a suspended floor directly over the cellar and the bass was a bit boomy but with the pads has definitely gained more clarity now. They can be picked up quite cheap, even Belkin do them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Effem
I now have two dense standard concrete building blocks that are 440mm x 100m x 215mm and are available from any builders merchant and some DIY stores for about £1 each under each speaker, they have certainly tightened up the wooly bass caused by my suspended floor, a £4 mod and the wife hasn't noticed them yet
Your wife hasn't noticed two 440mm x 100m x 215mm builders blocks in the lounge yet :stalks: you're a lucky fella for sure ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy
I know, my variac is hiding one side and the base of the arm chair hides the other and she (the Wife ) can't move either because of thier weight, sorted :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGig
I find there are pros and cons to granite slabs under speakers.
Yes, the bass can tighten up. But in my experience of using them with several speakers, a kind of hollow colouration is often (usually, always?) imparted to the midrange .. a kind of slightly 'hollow' effect making the sound less substantial. I always end up taking the slabs away for this reason.
But I've never had issues with a large resonant space under the floor, so maybe the balance of virtues shifts in that case.
I've found the same thing Jerry. Granite under TT's and other components? Yes, sometimes it works well, but never under speakers for me. Like you, I think, I've often tried it and always ended up going back.
I'm new to the forum, but thought I'd just put in my 2 penneth! I really do think that rooms can make or break the sound, but not sure how the dimensions stuff works.
I recently went to audition some speakers locally, his listening room was a converted garage (modern house, so a very long thin room, about 22ft x 9ft, with ceilings about 8ft high, as I recall). The room was carpeted and had very little furniture in, having been used as an AV room. His system was quite simple, Dynavector pre, Denson power, Cairn fog CD. The sound was 3 dimensional with a great soundstage....very very different to my own sound.
The speakers fired down the long length of the room and they sounded awesome! They sounded so impressive I bought them straight away, leaving a deposit, to collect the next day.
When I returned, he'd set up a replacement set of speakers. He played a few tracks through those, smaller speakers, again awesome.
I got my NEW speakers home.....that sound had vanished, virtually no 3D effect and very flat.....I think that can only be down to my room, which has no carpet is about 15' x14' x 7.5' and very open plan! I'm thinking of moving into the garage now
I'm finding myself in agreement with this. It's been enlightening for me how some speakers have been problematic in my room and yet others have just worked. So while in an ideal world it would be nice to have the bespoke room, for normal domestic situations buying the speaker to "fit" the room seems sensible to me. YMMV etc;Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Bunsen Honeydew
Interesting comments, Stuart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducatiist
... And you must have been seriously disappointed! :doh:
You (or at least, I) wouldn't have expected a long thin room like that to work at all well when it comes to soundstage - but you heard just the opposite. :scratch::
Hmmm ... I have a long thin one (listening room that is ;)) and I've only ever tried my omni-directional speakers firing across the narrow/width dimension ... Hmmm :hmm:
I have slightly wooly bass. Maybe I should explore decoupling from a suspended floor rather than coupling...:scratch:
My speakers are currently spiked and sit in cross head screws which are screwed into the floor.
Hi Jerry, yep it was a bit of a disappointment, but life can be like that;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jandl100
I was honestly surprised in the way the room sounded, I've got a feeling there may have been some acoustic damping going on...I think I'm going to have to go back and have a chat with him about his room, it really was a pretty special sound! I initially thought it was just an attribute of the spaekers (Shahinian super elfs).
As it was a dedicated room, the speakers were in a lot of free space about 3-4ft from the rear wall and 2ft from side walls. The settee was also well away from the back wall. I could never do this at my house, as my listening room is also my living room.
regards, Stu
I recall these speakers getting a rough ride when reviewed in HFW - years back now...the design is very unusual IIRCQuote:
Originally Posted by Ducatiist