Allo Audio Piano DAC for Raspberry Pi

Andre (Audiohdwr) has very kindly sent me a Piano DAC and Kali reclocker board to evaluate with my Raspberry Pi. The package arrived yesterday and I've just plugged the DAC into my existing Raspberry Pi 3 setup running RoonBridge in Raspbian. No setup issues I'm pleased to announce, it was a straight swap out of the board so tonight I'm settling in for an evening of listening.

A full review will come in a few days once the dust has settled, but initial impressions:

MASSIVE sound stage that you could get utterly lost in. Solid, sturdy bottom end, not overblown, not boomy, not exaggerated, just tight, agile and confident. Oh and that timing - Incredible timing you can't help but tap your feet along with.

and this is just the DAC board. Intrigued to know what the addition of the Kali board will do, but that's for later.

I'll go out on a limb right now and say I have a new favourite Pi DAC.

Sounds good, Richard.

Any pics?

I shall be sure to take some on Sunday morning and post them.

For now I'm scouring Roon for tracks I've not played in ages and this is thoroughly addictive. It almost feels like I've been out and spent a lot of money on HiFi today, only I haven't ;-). I don't think returning this is going to be an option, one way or another!

does this work on the rpi2b as well?

Yes it'll work fine on a Pi2. Come to think of it, that's what I'm running it on. I used my spare Pi2 instead of my Pi3 (which is already set up with a DAC) just in case I ran into difficulties and had to go back to the working unit.

Which means I'll have to pop it on to the Pi3 for a try at some point, although I can't say I noticed a difference when I moved from a Pi2 to a Pi3 in the first instance.

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Originally Posted by lovejoy

Yes it'll work fine on a Pi2. Come to think of it, that's what I'm running it on. I used my spare Pi2 instead of my Pi3 (which is already set up with a DAC) just in case I ran into difficulties and had to go back to the working unit.

Which means I'll have to pop it on to the Pi3 for a try at some point, although I can't say I noticed a difference when I moved from a Pi2 to a Pi3 in the first instance.

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cheers... got a link to it or has it not been released yet

It's not fully released yet as far as I know. From what I've heard so far though, the DAC is most definitely ready for market, although what it lacks is a nice case at the moment. All the information I got was from this thread:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...Audio-Hardware

I see.. its Andre. I thought his stuff was just external dacs etc. would the board not fit in a pi box; i take it its a piggyback fir like the rest. maybe everything in wrong place.. anyway, it good you feel it a big improvement....

Yes that's right - It's a piggyback board, but there are 4 phono outputs, labelled for sub outputs, but I guess with a bit of software crossover tuning you could probably make a rather nice 2 way active system out of it. If I had another power amp I'd be trying that.

Just fitted the Kali reclocking board, which is another extra layer which is where a case starts to become something of a challenge beyond the simple top and bottom with spacers screwed between them.

On top of a thoroughly enjoyable (and late) evening of tunes last night, fitting the Kali this morning has brought some wide grins this morning. Another lengthy listening session will be in order this evening and a full report (with photos) tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by lovejoy

Yes that's right - It's a piggyback board, but there are 4 phono outputs, labelled for sub outputs, but I guess with a bit of software crossover tuning you could probably make a rather nice 2 way active system out of it. If I had another power amp I'd be trying that.

Just fitted the Kali reclocking board, which is another extra layer which is where a case starts to become something of a challenge beyond the simple top and bottom with spacers screwed between them.

On top of a thoroughly enjoyable (and late) evening of tunes last night, fitting the Kali this morning has brought some wide grins this morning. Another lengthy listening session will be in order this evening and a full report (with photos) tomorrow.

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Thought there would be a catch. 4 outputs is strange for a board. Guess you could blank 2 off. But if its not going to fit into normal boxes then it is going to be held back sales wise.

Erm... Amp? Speakers... are? Fairly essential elements in getting those wonderous sounds to one's ears :-)

Well, I've now had an evening with just the Piano DAC in situ and a second evening with DAC plus Kali board in place, so here's a first review, and a few pics.

This is the Pi (2) with both Kali board and Piano DAC in place:

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t..._152550347.jpg

The Kali plugs directly on top of the Pi via the GPIO connector and then the Kali in turn has an identical set of connectors onto which you then connect the Piano DAC. This is what the Kali looks like on its own:

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t..._152628016.jpg

On the left side, that connection block is a 5V input, so when you power the Kali, there's no need to separately power the Pi as that 5V input filters down into the Pi and up into the DAC. You need a 3A 5V PSU for everything to work.

The Kali has LED indicators to show the incoming sample rate and will work happily with everything between 44.1 and 192KHz 16 and 24-bit. These LEDs become rather pointless once you've fitted a DAC on top of it though as you can't see them. What the Kali does is to take the incoming audio data from the Pi, buffer it, then re-clock it using a super low-jitter clock, so the DAC gets fed with a signal with far less jitter. This board should in theory work with any existing DAC board, but I didn't have much success in getting any audio out when I initially plugged it into my IQAudio DAC.

You can of course just use the Piano DAC without any Kali reclocker in place. This is what the underside of the Piano DAC looks like with what seems to be an op-amp for the output:

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/t..._152708613.jpg

Those four phono outputs are 2 for left and right, and 2 extra labelled subwoofer outputs. The sub outs I have not used but I can imagine this could work rather well for anyone with an active setup where you can tune the exact crossover frequency between your sub and sats or even into standard speakers sans crossover giving you a tuneable active system for 2 way speakers. As you can see there are two DAC chips on the board. These are TI 5142 chips. Oone for left and right, and one for sub/LF outputs.

As you'll notice there's no case at the moment. The kit was supplied with a perspex top and bottom and a bunch of spacers to separate and secure the boards. All very basic but functional. I've just got mine sat on a rubber pad at the back of my rack at the moment while I decide whether I build the entire thing plus power supply into one good looking case. That's for another thread entirely though.

Setup was very simple. Plugging the board in to my Pi and loading my existing Raspbian installation which has RoonBridge installed picked it up immediately and running alsamixer showed me the familiar volume controls and filter selections identical to what you get with the IQAudio DAC (to all intents, the DAC chips in both units are pretty much the same).

The one slight issue I did get at first was that the max volume was a little high for my pre-amp input, so I minimised the 6dB boost setting in alsamixer and all was well.

Now for some listening. First of all I can see why it's been called the Piano DAC - Pianos have a tonality and realism that I very rarely hear with digital and for the first time in years (since I built my little DDDAC kit with the stacked 1543 chips in fact) I heard how the keys were being played, the weight, the pedals, the wood, all of the feeling conveyed by the player. In fact all instruments have this wonderfully full tone to them and are projected into the room with real depth and solidity. Solidity is another key facet of the sound here. Bass is full, but tight. It's definitely one for fans of PRAT: Pace, rhythm and timing are all spot on and where I often get tempted to flick through tracks at random, this sound persuades you to start at track one and listen all the way through an album which is something I've found myself doing for much of the listening. Vocals, along with instruments are projected right out into the room, there is so much depth both front to back and side to side. It's the biggest sound stage I've heard in a long time, you really can get lost allowing it to completely envelope you.

All this was just the DAC. Fitting the Kali brings about further noticeable improvements. I would say you get an extra 10% on top, so it's not night and day but it's wringing the last ounces of performance out of the system. What the Kali brings is layering. When I first fitted the board, I thought it had become a little analytical, pulling recordings apart, but as things warmed up that turned into extra air around each instrument, more insight into the recording and the ability to follow each and every player in a performance. Even when things get busy, everything is held together with vice like grip. With the extra air, space and layering where that 3D soundstage really comes into its own, comes extra detail - again not in a clinical way, but the recording just seems to be laid utterly bare and you're right in the middle of it. I listened to Beck's Mutations (24/192). This is one of my favourite albums of the last 25 years and there were LOTS of details I had never heard before, little bits of percussion here, an extra bassline there buried under the other guitars. It was mesmerising from start to finish, so although I say it was an extra 10% in the performance, having heard it, I wouldn't want to be without it now!

Is it perfect? Not quite. There's a slight pop when switching between tracks with different sample rates but I guess that will get fixed in time, and the way that it lays recordings entirely bare, means you get the warts and all, so it will be ruthlessly revealing of bad recordings to the point of making them unlistenable so if it's the musical equivalent of lithium you're after, this setup will not be for you. Give it a decent recording though, and it will reward you with a sound that is thoroughly engaging and totally addictive.

In conclusion, this is a DAC that shakes my long held preference for vinyl. Of course it won't replace it, but the decision between a digital or an analogue purchase has seen a major shift towards digital, and that is something I never expected.

Excellent write up, Richard.

Have you done an A/B comparison with the IQAudio DAC+ ? Or is that on the cards?

Will this work with Moode, Volumio etc too?

Thanks Josie. Yes, I did make the comparison, but I thought my clear preference for the new DAC made me a little too biased for an objective view.

That said, they are two very different sounding boards, which is incredible when you consider that the actual DAC chip in terms of specs is identical. Even taking out the Kali and comparing like for like, I think most people would be able to tell which DAC they were listening to within a few tracks.

The IQ is a much smoother presentation, which will translate into an easier listen for a lot of people. Much more forgiving of poor sources or bad recordings and I think is generally fuller sounding. The Piano is faster, snappier, more strident and dynamic and projects sound further out into the room, where the IQ creates more of a wall of sound.

Of course everything is going to come down to system matching. My Dynavector amps seem to work much better with sources that are a bit more up front, but if your amps are a bit bright or forward, the IQ is probably going to be a better match.

There should be no problems running this with Moode, Volumio etc. The Kali is transparent to the system anyway so no drivers etc. required. Because this is such a new DAC there's going to be no 'Piano DAC" entry in any of these distros but given that the DAC chip is the same as the IQAudio, you can set it up as an IQDAC and that will work fine - That's how I've done it on my setup.

Ah, thanks, Richard.

I wouldn't mind doing an eval on that too!

Looks and sounds very interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lovejoy

Is it perfect? Not quite. There's a slight pop when switching between tracks with different sample rates but I guess that will get fixed in time, and the way that it lays recordings entirely bare, means you get the warts and all, so it will be ruthlessly revealing of bad recordings to the point of making them unlistenable so if it's the musical equivalent of lithium you're after, this setup will not be for you. Give it a decent recording though, and it will reward you with a sound that is thoroughly engaging and totally addictive.

In conclusion, this is a DAC that shakes my long held preference for vinyl. Of course it won't replace it, but the decision between a digital or an analogue purchase has seen a major shift towards digital, and that is something I never expected.

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hi there Rich and thanks for the rich and honest write up. Impressive.
On the above, i am glad to let you know that the "pop" issue was fixed in the latest KALI firmware.

We can discuss in private how to get it to you.

Thanks
Andre

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Black Adder

Ah, thanks, Richard.

I wouldn't mind doing an eval on that too!

Looks and sounds very interesting.

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Hi Black Adder, I PMed you...
thanks
Andre

Interesting name for a DAC, in fact, piano is one of the most difficult instruments to get right in digital, maybe this DAC is one of the few that cracks it?

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Originally Posted by Yomanze

Interesting name for a DAC, in fact, piano is one of the most difficult instruments to get right in digital, maybe this DAC is one of the few that cracks it?

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#LoveJoy... how does the piano instrument sound on the pinao DAC ? :)

Indeed he reckoned it sounded more like a piano than a well, piano lol. Awaiting the price though. Would like to try it myself actually

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Originally Posted by struth

Indeed he reckoned it sounded more like a piano than a well, piano lol. Awaiting the price though. Would like to try it myself actually

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Hi Grant,

what would you be interested in trying ? the Piano DAC alone or the PINAO + KALI reclocker ?
PM me so we can disucss.

about pricing, i had shared it in one of my early posts here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...highlight=vana

talk soon

A couple of days ago I received a Kali and a Piano Dac which I ordered from Allo.com. Delivery from India was less than 4 days.
I thoroughly agree with Richards excellent review of these. Using the Moode player, I'm getting the best sound that I've yet heard from the RPi.
Previously, I was using the RPi USB into a Meridian Director Dac. This is a fine Dac and it sounds great, but the RPi is probably not up to getting the best out of it. I also tried the Meridian via a HifiBerry Digi+ into the SPDIF input, but USB was better.
Kali + Piano gives better instrumental separation, and improved micro- and macro-dynamics. Plus all that Richard said!
The one slight oddity is that when I engage the pause on Moode, the last second or so of music is repeated about three times before the player pauses. There's at present no setting on Moode for the Piano Dac, so I'm using the setting for another Dac that uses the same chip. Perhaps, if and when Moode gets a setting for the Piano this will be fixed.
I've also tried the RPi + Kali into a Mamboberry LS Dac. That's good too, but I prefer the Piano.

John

thanks for the comments John.
>> The one slight oddity is that when I engage the pause on Moode, the last second or so of music is repeated about three times before the player pauses.

we are looking into this.
thanks,
Andre

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Audiohdwr

thanks for the comments John.
>> The one slight oddity is that when I engage the pause on Moode, the last second or so of music is repeated about three times before the player pauses.

we are looking into this.
thanks,
Andre

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we were able to replicate this in our lab and our team is working on a fix.
will let you know soon enough.
thanks and let me know if there are any other comments.

Cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Audiohdwr

we were able to replicate this in our lab and our team is working on a fix.
will let you know soon enough.
thanks and let me know if there are any other comments.

Cheers.

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Cool.Thanks for letting us know.

John

John,
we are offering exchange units for the people who have the last second pause loop.
please contact fabiola@allo.com with your order # and you can get a new unit.

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Originally Posted by Audiohdwr

John,
we are offering exchange units for the people who have the last second pause loop.
please contact fabiola@allo.com with your order # and you can get a new unit.

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I've already done that thanks Andre, and I've received the replacement which is absolutely fine.

John

Hi everybody.
I just read all of the thread and I got intrigued.... since I've been playing with Raspberry, IQaudIO, HiFiBerry Digi+ for a few years now.

I have two questions:

1) Power - 3A
I read the Kali needs 5v/3A... which means I cannot use the Ifi iPower that I just ordered since it is rated for 2.5A, correct?
I guess I know the answer but just wanted to check....

2) 2.1 vs 2.0 configuration
I read on allo.co web site re piano 2.1 that "The [Piano 2.1] board will come pre-programmed as a 2.1 output" but also tha "Piano can work as a 2.0 (all frequencies are passed to LR)"
Does this mean there is a lo-pass filter configured to make use of the subwoofer output?
Since I'm not planning to use a subwoofer anytime soon, what am I to do to make it works as 2.0?

Many thanks from a soon to be new customer (how long will it take to ship to New York?)

franz

Think its the Kali reclocker that needs 3a, although not sure. I believe they did a piano 2.0 as well so might still. Andre at Allo is a nice guy so send him a pm. sure he can help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by struth

Think its the Kali reclocker that needs 3a, although not sure. I believe they did a piano 2.0 as well so might still. Andre at Allo is a nice guy so send him a pm. sure he can help.

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I see on Allo website the "Piano Dac" with only two RCA L/R output, but it has a different DAC system (one PCM5122 Dac vs two PCM5142 Dac in the 2.1)

I know the 2.1 dac works as any dac would with an rpi and uses same current, but has 4 rcas. It is supposed to be a big increase in sq on other dacs, although cannot confirm that.
Audiohdwr is the owner or rep of allo, and a member, so pm him. sure he can help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by franz159

Hi everybody.
I just read all of the thread and I got intrigued.... since I've been playing with Raspberry, IQaudIO, HiFiBerry Digi+ for a few years now.

I have two questions:

1) Power - 3A
I read the Kali needs 5v/3A... which means I cannot use the Ifi iPower that I just ordered since it is rated for 2.5A, correct?
I guess I know the answer but just wanted to check....


franz

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I've been running the RPi+Kali+Piano2.0 off a 1amp regulated supply (TPS7A4700). The Piano 2.1 will require a bit more current, but I'm pretty sure that the Ifi iPower would be more than adequate.
Edit: I just checked the diyAudio thread, where Allo stated the current draw of Kali to be about 100mA, and Piano 2.1 about 320mA. So I've no idea why they recommend as much as 3A.
John

I tried my Kali Reclocker/Piano 2.1 with my HD-Plex PSU rated at 5v 2a and it ran hot, so I now just use the supplied wallwart until I replace the HDPlex. I haven't tried it without the Reclocker by I might just to see if the DAC runs ok at 2a.

The HD-Plex runs stone cold with just the Pi and IQAUDIO DAC as that only requires 2a max.