I thought i would ask the informed cognoscenti just how much better is the Denon DL103R mc cartridge than the standard DL103? I am intrigued as to whether it is worth the extra outlay:scratch:
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I thought i would ask the informed cognoscenti just how much better is the Denon DL103R mc cartridge than the standard DL103? I am intrigued as to whether it is worth the extra outlay:scratch:
The two 103 models are a bargain, but the 103R is well worth the extra money in my view, it competes well with some pretty serious MCs. There isn't really much around under £500 that can match it that I can think of. The 103R has a far better defined top end than the base model. Some find it a bit bright, but that was not a problem in my system.
I was using one alongside a Technics EPC-305MC (which just had the edge) for some time, until I bought a ZYX.
I'm one of those Denon fans who doesn't find the 103R superior, just a bit different. It has a bit more treble presence, but whether or not you prefer that is up to the listener; I just don't believe it's worth the extra money when the 103 is such a great buy. Most people who like the 103 sound tend to prefer the 103R, FWIW.
Thanks for that honest view. I am using the basic 103 in my 1210 and loved it so much i thought i would buy one for my Orbe. The Orbe being a little more elaborate i was wondering if i should splash out and get the R version. One down side to this would be having to send my phono stage back to NVA for recalibration as at the moment it is set for my 103 and the 103R is only 40 ohms. Your comments are very helpful Trey as if i was honest there is very little i dislike about the standard 103 and extra treble information would not bode well with my Tannoy Dual concentrics.Quote:
Originally Posted by thankyoumisterman
To be honest Steve. I'd say pay the extra and get the cheapest ZYX available in the UK. The R50 Bloom H. I went from the DL-103R to the R50 and the difference is staggering. It's in a different league for imaging and soundstaging. The sheer transparency and lack of colouration comes as quite a shock (well it did to me). The top end on the R50 is smooth, benign and unintrusive, so it suits Tannoys well. A good SUT is a must though with these.
I was that impressed, I've built up a small collection of ZYXs and now have four.
Hi Geoff, I've read good things about the ZYXS , which ones your personal favourite ?Quote:
Originally Posted by walpurgis
Hi Robbie. I have the R50 Bloom H, R100, R100 H2, R100 Yatra H. They each sound rather different. The R100 H2 has a speed, impact and revelation of detail rather in the manner of Decca cartridges. It's stunning really. The R50 Bloom H is somewhat more full bodied and reserved, just really nice. The Yatra sounds like an even more open and refined R50 Bloom H. The R100 falls somewhere between the Yatra and R100 H2.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieGong
I really don't have a favourite. They are all superb. A newcomer to the make would definitely not be disappointed with the R50. One point though. A good SUT is more or less essential.
How about strait into a FET/valve cascode stage, missing out the SUT requirement altogether. Have you ever tried it Geoff?Quote:
Originally Posted by walpurgis
:)
I have a Zyx R100 H2 and use a Croft headamp upgraded by Glenn with an external PSU as per the PSU on 25R - sounds stunning. I tried a couple of SUT's including a uber expensive Dynavector SUP200 but it just did not sing like it does with the Croft.Quote:
Originally Posted by walpurgis
My Denon 103 is being breathed on by Dom at NWA and will come back to me with new coil rewind, cantilever and FG stylus mounted in a Uwe malachite body.
Nope! It can vary, but I'm currently using a Graham Slee Reflex M and Fidelity Research FRT-3 SUT setup. Sounds lovely!Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebottle
(I have five SUT choices and change them about. May get another phono stage, but can't see anything at sensible money that will compete with the Reflex M)
Try an NVA phono 2. Totally excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by walpurgis
I too am not a believer that the 103r is an improvement over the original 103...but will admit they are different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyddroid
If you appreciate the Denon for all that it does then I struggle to believe that the Zyx carts will be up your alley either, but only you can decide that.
There are many companies performing retipping of carts, have you considered having a 103 retipped with an elliptical profile?
Rick.
im positive that this subject has been debated before on a much bigger thread on this very forum?
:rolleyes:Aye right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
Just out of interest can anyone shed any light on a couple of queries i have regarding DL103's? I told recently that numerous and unscrupulous companies are making fake 103's which has made me nervous about buying one via the bay of E. I am lead to believe Denon only ship to one European distributor so where is the best place to buy a kosher one? The other query is that if channel balance. I have also been informed that kosher 103's are properly checked for channel imbalance and come with a certificate to indicate this. Can anyone confirm this? There are some bargains to be had on s..t Bay from the U.S.A. Though i am now concerned they may be fakes.:scratch:
Just out of interest can anyone shed any light on a couple of queries i have regarding DL103's? I was told recently that numerous and unscrupulous companies are making fake 103's which has made me nervous about buying one via the bay of E. I am lead to believe Denon only ship to one European distributor so where is the best place to buy a kosher one? The other query is that if channel balance. I have also been informed that kosher 103's are properly checked for channel imbalance and come with a certificate to indicate this. Can anyone confirm this? There are some bargains to be had on s..t Bay from the U.S.A. Though i am now concerned they may be fakes.:scratch:
I would guess that the real issue is that there are a fair number of "gray market" sellers on Ebay, and other places. An online seller called "Comet Supply" used to sell Denon cartridges, and I'm certain they were gray marketers, though I never had an issue with them; they've since ceased distributing phono carts. I have also bought from innovee-tech on Ebay, and haven't had any difficulty with them. A genuine Denon does come with a spec sheet showing what the factory tested each channel's output at, and that is included with the information packet in the box, along with a small white brush for cleaning the stylus.
Speaking of Ebay, there was a seller who was blowing out his stock of aluminum bodies, and I bought a couple. I've since put 2 of the 103s I bought from innovee-tech into them, and potted them with non-magnetic electronics epoxy. Anyway, I see he's changed his design and the current iteration looks more like the body version Zu sells now.
Thanks for the infoTrey. Indeed, it is Innovee trading Denon DL103R's for just over half the money it would cost me in the UK. I have nearly bought one twice but alarm bells keep ringing. Should i or shouldn't i?Quote:
Originally Posted by thankyoumisterman
Hi Steve,
how you doing?
I started a post with exactly the same question - you might want to take alook at some of the comments?:)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...ht=denon+DL103
cheers Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyddroid
2juki in HK is the address to buy kosher. i both 2 103 there (not for me though), both excellent (within limits of the design)...
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgrau
Bought several from him and they've been all good, original carts.
I have also used 2juki.
I would rather use a modified DL103, in a wood body or mounted to a plate 'nude' than use a stock DL103 or DL103R.
Yes i see where you are coming from, though i am a little nervous about performing such delicate procedures these days especially nude tee hee):). As for mounting one on a plate, How does one do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomanze
Looks like this: http://img.ukaudiomart.com/uploads/l...ting_plate.jpg
Adds a lot more focus and resolution.
There will be plates online for sale, I mounted mine using some Araldite epoxy resin.
FWIW, I've ordered from innovee without issues. Whether or not a trans-Atlantic transaction would be hassle-free, I don't know.
Removing the Denon from its plastic body and putting it into an aluminum or wood case isn't brain surgery. Taking your time and performing the swap under plenty of good lighting is the key. I'm sure you've seen the Youtube video showing how to cut the glued areas on the plastic housing and remove the guts.
The Soundsmith-modified Denon is actually a 103 or 103R housed in a wooden case and affixed to a brass or aluminum plate.
Hi Jim. Yer not too bad. How things wichu? Thanks for the link. Very helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
The 103R sounds a bit more polished and polite than the stock 103r and loses the sheer verve, bite and energy that attracts many to the 103 in the first place. Its not necessarily better although I personally preferred the 103r of the pair. When left stock they have a favourable price/performance ratio.
Just don't get sucked into all the internet hype and mod them with ali or wood bodies and ruby cantilevers and the like. Don't build your analogue front end around them with special SUTs and heavy tonearms. It costs alot of money to do all this and despite what the internet would have you believe, they are NOT Koetsu beaters. Lol. Been there, done all that!
Rather than get sucked into the 103 crowd, if you want a better sound than a 103, buy a better MC in the first place, the results are far superior (something like a Benz Glider, Lyra Delos or Shelter 501.2 in my experience) to any Denon 103 variation and you won't have to do anything special with the tonearm and phono stage you already have (probably :-) ).
My top steer, and I see the forum has been talking about these recently, is a Nagaoka MP500 which not only avoids the need for an MC stage or SUT, it's right up there with the £1Kish MC's.
The problem with absolutes is they often get smashed apart by others experiences ;). Whilst I agree going for a ruby cantilever on a 103 is very OTT rebodying them is very worth while. Why not build your vinyl front end around one? It is a very engaging cartridge and if you accept its limitations in areas like detail retrieval it will still reward you with a musical, emotional and encompassing presentation in spades.... :D you just have to put the effort in... ;)
I'm not doctrinaire about these things - I love the sonic-value-per-cost of the Denon line - but there are so many ways to arrive at the goal of enjoyable listening. I don't know what the cost in the UK is of the Cartridge Man line, but that's a nice way to enjoy a high-quality moving iron cartridge without the cost of a head amp or step-up transformer.
The Denon 103 line, like the EMT TSD, is just a simple, damned high quality generator design that can be exploited to make an even more high-performing transducer. Some people who value the 103's basic sonic signature don't like the farting around that adding new casings or upgraded cantilever/stylus assemblies, and I respect that viewpoint for sure.
I seen this little tinker (Denon DL103 with metal case) for £150 so i jumped on it. To my annoyance i have had mount it further back in the headshell to get the correct over hang so as you can see in the picture it just doesn't look right. Sounds pretty good though.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...ster/Denon.jpg