I have noticed that none of the early Caiman owners have even posted on AoS in the last day or so... You think there could be a reason for that:scratch:?
STan
Printable View
I have noticed that none of the early Caiman owners have even posted on AoS in the last day or so... You think there could be a reason for that:scratch:?
STan
Hi Stan,
What are you suggesting that they might be doing that could possibly be more important than posting on AoS?? :lolsign:
Cheers,
Just curious if there is a connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC
Stan
Hi Stan,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
I was trying to be funny - hope I didn't fail too badly - I fully realise the connection you were trying to make ;) .
Cheers,
There is one word thats explains why they haven't posted-engrossed.
i can think of other words that might describe what they might be doing ... i have noticed some people on here take they hifi VERY seriously ...... il leave that comment to interpretation ;)
steady....
heh
i do of course have my name on a caiman ..... and im selling some bonds to buy one..... so i cant really talk!!
Well, my WM8716 chips turned up from Farnell this morning so I set about straight away modding my 7520.
Now I have a 7520 using a Wolfson WM8716 DAC chip 4562 op amps in both sockets and the MLC5/6 mod. So I guess pretty close to a Caiman.
I've had a few songs to get an initial impression and now I'm going to leave it run in for a while. I'm not going to spoil anyone's fun by listing what I think are the improvements so far, I'm just going to leave you with two words for now...
HOLY CRAP! (that's in a good way by the way)
My Caiman arrived on Friday before lunch (thx Stan). I had a quick listen to it (HD650 headphones) before burn-in or even warm up - I had to go out on Friday night. With the original tc7520, the sound gradually improves as the stan-cap (TM) fills up with charge but the Caiman sounded pretty good right from the off.
I then left it on burn-in (feeding it with random tracks from foobar) overnight and most of Saturday afternoon before listening again. The improvements in tonality and separation are not subtle.
I will reserve my full comments until I have spent some time with the Caiman. My initial reaction however is that the improved Wolfson DAC and stans other mods have made a very worthwhile improvement to an already excellent DAC.
Ade
I'd actually just saved up for a 7520, and then I read about the Caiman. I didn't have to think too hard about which to buy ;)
My Caiman turned up this morning - speedy dispatch too! Thanks Stan :)
I don't have a 7510 or 7520 to compare it to I'm afraid. Obviously it needs to be run in, but for what it's worth I plumbed it in and had a listen on my Denon AHD-5000s, and I already know that I won't be sending it back. I'm very impressed so far and I'm intrigued to hear what it will be like once it has run in.
It's now being fed a loop of reasonably diverse (well for me at least) music to run in properly;
Joanna Newsom - Sprout and the Bean
Max Richter - The Blue Notebooks
James Brown - The Payback
Gil Scott Heron - Pieces of a Man
Miles Davis - A Kind of Blue
Dave Brubeck - Time Further Out
The Headhunters - God Made Me Funky
Funkadelic - Maggot Brain
Jimi Hendrix - Crosstown Traffic
Carl Craig - More Songs About Food and Revolutionary Art
Basic Channel - E2E4 Basic Reshape
Kraftwerk - Autobahn
TVO - The Dark is Rising
Ulrich Schnauss - A Strangely Isolated Place
Arovane - Tides
Isan - Recently in the Sahara
Wendy Carlos - A Clockwork Orange
Erik Satie - Gnossienes (6) for piano; 1. Lent
Boards of Canada - In a Beautiful Place Out in the Country
If I play the music on fast forward - will the DAC burn in quicker? :eyebrows:
Simon
It seems that the fine folks at US Customs are taking the Caiman for a spin. Frustrating to know it is here in Chicago but in customs' hands not mine.
Anxiously awaiting the Caiman, and looking forward to comparing it to my non-oversampling Moodlab Concept DAC.
That's a massive downer. I arranged a special pick up by FEDEX to get it to you over the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by roscoeiii
Stan
How many Caimans are in the hands of buyers or reviewers?
Well I went down to one of the Naim Summer Roadshow events this afternoon at Robert Ritchies. Top bloke he is.
Anyway, I had a listen to the new Naim Ovator speakers (circa £6k) fired up with a NAP300 and a NAC252 (£more filthy lucre). The front ends were the new CD2XS with the SPDIF out, an HDX and the soon to be released Naim DAC (£no idea of the filthy lucre involved).
On both the CD2XS and the HDX the DAC improved things no end. It really did sound very good indeed. The spiel mentioned that it has the same DAC chip that both the CDS3 and the CD555 have plus some fancy re-clocking/up-sampling/DSP'ing. I can't remember the exact chips/software involved. It also has the Apple identifier chip included so it will play the digital out from the bottom of your iPhone/iTouch/iPod much like the Wadia iPod dock does. All in all a good day out with some good tunes being played too.
To cut a long story short I was expecting to be disappointed when I got home and fired up my more modest set up. However, I wasn't. Streaming into the Wolfsoned 7520 wasn't a let down. I'm going to take it down to Roberts in September when he gets a demo DAC in for a comparison.
i was saying to stan in pm im going to compare mine (when i get it) to the linn ds kit with the guys who sold me all my kit (norman and ian of uhes - one of the other summer sounds hosts in painswick, glos) in the tests i have done the 7520 with 4562's that i have comes closer than antisipated to my majik ds so im really intrigued (also slightly scared) to know how good the caiman is!
If he gets a DAC for demo, maybe you should take a production version of the Caiman instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Stan
If anyone is interested in a MOD21'd, LM'd 7510 then I'm up for a Caiman ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
PS: Maplin PSU included.
Hi Hamish
How far are you from Painswick then, I bought a rather nice cheap tuner from them and live just down the road in Nailsworth. Good guys and a great place to listen to music.
I also have one of Stan's Caimans but have not had a chance too listen yet!!!!!!!
I'm in Worcester, I used to buy hifi from Norman when he was the assistant in audio excelence in town. In fact I got my very first hifi from him 12ish years ago! It's been interesting watching him and ian turn the dream of thier own shop into reality! Did you know them when they were up at the castle in rodborough, it's a great shame that place didn't work out for them, it was stunning!! Not that the new place is at all shoddy to be fair!!! It's always a joy going to visit them! they had a pair of adam tensor betas last time I was there, I understand they are not to everyones taste, but I loved em!
Anyway I have high jacked this thread a bit here sorry all!
Get that caiman out and running! Maybe if your closer you could take it to uhes too! You know how Normans into his linn ds stuff? I'm so intrigued to know what he would make of the caiman, especially at it's price point!
I might take my mini laptop down actually, I'd love to hear the difference between £450 worth of laptop and caiman compared to £10kish worth of linn klimax ds going straight into some massive active Adams! Almost complete oposite ends of the computer based audio Market in terms of price, and although this is based on expectation due to experience of the 7520 - not actually having heard the caiman yet, I would guess not such oposite ends in terms of performance!!!
It's just ocured to me I have never done a truely fair comparison between my 7520 and linn majik ds.... I really wish is wasn't 2:54 am and that I didn't live in a teraced house, I have a sudden urge to listen to some music at day-time-while-the-neighbours-are-at-work level!
Don't you ever bloody sleep ???? :lolsign:Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish_gill
my missis has been off work for a while and its slowly turning me nocturnal.. she was on the laptop in bed looking at alice in wonderland beads and charms to make a braclet out of... i fugured the best place for me was here :)
:lolsign: Sanctuary.Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish_gill
Well my Caiman just got delivered to me at work, I only ordered it yesterday, thanks Stan!!! I can't wait to get it hooked up tonight.
Sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere but I noticed the power adapter that came with my Caiman is different to the one that came with my standard 7520. The old one was a phone charger style design, the new one is an in-line design. Are they the same internally?
They both take AC and convert it to 12 Volts DC.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy
Stan
Thanks Stan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
I just thought I better double check as I'm planning on using the adapter that came with my 7520 as it's already well run in. It probably won't make much difference but it can't hurt I guess.
I quite prefer the style of PSU that shipped with the Caiman, since it it easier to plug into my power conditioner than a wall wart.
My only question so far is whether there is some way to keep the Caiman from changing its input automatically to USB after it is powered off. My power is super crappy, and I want to keep all audio equipment plugged into it to protect them, and I turn off the conditioner whenever the stereo is not in use. Whenever I turn the power conditioner back on, the input changes to USB, an input I will not be using.
Argh, TNT came to deliver my Caiman just when I was out. Murphy's still alive and kicking!
Tomorrow after 1PM I can pick it up at the post office. :steam:
Ordered yesterday. Arrived today! (Can't complain at that, Stan.)
Installed cold. First impressions compared to 7510 6/4?
Firmer bass. Cleaner mid-band. Too early to say any more.
Played:
Bach's Goldberg Variations - an extremely clear recording by Dinnerstein - 16/44.1 FLAC
and
Palestrina's Missa Papae Marcelli - The Tallis Scholars - a Gimimell Studio Master download at 24/96 FLAC - Squeezecentre down samples to 24/48 before streaming to Squeezebox.
(In my opinion these Studio Master Gimmel downloads are extremely good, but I have ripped CDs that are as good.)
HiBit Internet Radio sounds good too.
RCA Phono link between Squeezebox and DAC. Variable out into Quad 405 Power Amp.
OOO
Playing now:
AVRO Klassiek Beste Netherlands MP3 256KB/s
Hector Berlioz - Berliner Philharmoniker, James Levine - Symphonie fantastique op.14 (DG 431624-2)
URL: http://opml.radiotime.com/Tune.ashx?...e&PartnerId=16
I have a very wide open window onto this music.
Impressive sound stage.
Very good string tone.
And this is a 256 MP3.
Amazing piano tone:
Title: WFMT Chicago 128 AAC+
URL: http://wttw.ic.llnwd.net/stream/wttw_wfmt_livebroadcast
Piano and Tenor - Britten's Folk songs I think.
Well done Stan!
Unfortunately I only had enough time to plug in my Caiman and play a bit of TV through it. So I can't really comment on the sound other than that the news sounded good. :lol: Nice clear vocals. :)
I'll hopefully be able to run some music through it over the weekend to give me a better idea.
24 Hours in.
Just listening to
Sibelius, Violin Concerto Op.47, Symphony Nr.5 Op.82 (1988)
Nigel Kennedy, Simon Rattle
Very nice. Very nice indeed , Stan.
Great strings. Even pizzicato. (Must listen to some guitar and lute.)
And it's silly things, like when during a quiet section the tympani sound from the back of the orchestra. Very convincing. I expect that is down to clarity and good, controlled bass. You do get quite a thump with (even) a softly played tymp, but the drumskin is probably producing some very complex sounds.
As I said yesterday the piano sound is excellent.
I plugged in my very ordinary Sennheiser Headphones HD435 (ten or more years old). They seem to sound better with the Caiman over the 7510.
Still exploring.
(There is a downside, of course, when you can hear a pianist shuffling on the stool.)
MMM
Didn't listen to the lute.
Got sidetracked:
D:\FLAC\Jeno Jando\Beethoven Piano Sonatas, Vol. 4\06 - Sonata No.32 In C Minor, Op. 111 - Maestoso - Allegro.flac
D:\FLAC\Jeno Jando\Beethoven Piano Sonatas, Vol. 4\07 - Sonata No.32 In C Minor, Op. 111 - Arietta, Adagio Molto.flac
I am very impressed with the the range of articulation. The high register metallic sound is there, and the full bodied bass of a concert grand piano.
Sitting on the edge of my seat I was.
Of course I have large articulate speakers and the refurbished Quad 405-2 is nearly as good as a 909 - well over 100w per channel of sophisticated grunt; but the finesse has to be there in the early replay chain - and it was.
Well, I must shut up (for now) and let others have their say.
Thanks Brian,
Here's my 2p worth as a comparison between the Caiman and the 4562 equipped 7520, which makes it a pretty level playing field.
The first thing that hits you is the bass, quite literally. The 7520 with the 4562 was accused of having slightly monotonic bass, and even though the MLC5/6 cap mods went some way to addressing this, this is in a different league. Not only has the tunefulness been returned, it goes lower, deeper, hits harder, is tighter, more focussed and more controlled. It's thunderous in fact, but it never loses it's grip. What is odd is that even though there is *more* bass, it has addressed much of the boomyness in my listening room. I guess that is a testament to just how tight and controlled it is.
As a result, timing has improved massively. I've been doing a lot of air drumming lately ;-). It draws you right into the recording and doesn't let go. It's sense of rhythm and groove is quite spectacular. I'd get up and dance if I was so inclined.
Soundstage has grown in all directions, especially front to back. There's a real holographic projection of the image, both between, behind and to the sides of the speakers. Close your eyes and listen. It feels like being in a much bigger room. Listening to classical music is as if I can not only tell the left to right position of any musician, I can pick out which row they're in. I think Brian said that there is a much bigger window into the recording and I couldn't agree more. There are the most minute details coming through now that were blurred previously, but yes, the downside is that the guy in the audience with a bit of a sniff has now become irritating ;).
I think the biggest difference to my ears has been the tonality and decay in notes from any instrument. This is a MASSIVE improvement and is the thing that is currently getting me going through loads of different music, discovering sounds for the first time. Notes hang in the air in front of you and decay away so realistically, you can't help but give your full undivided attention. From the wood in an acoustic guitar to the skin of a drum, it's all very tangible and thoroughly addictive to listen to.
Vocals have taken on more presence and richness and are projected right out into the room. It's like you've moved your chair a few rows closer to the stage.
Then there's the treble: Much sweeter and more natural. I think digital systems have always had a problem with cymbals, always splashy and harsh. Here we have something that sounds more like a good turntable.
In summary, I'd say that the move from the original 7510/7520 DAC chip to the Wolfson is a bigger step than upgrading your op-amps from the stock ones to something like a 4562 or THS4032, but with the Caiman you get both upgrades from the off. If you really want to bring big improvements to your 7510/20 and you can de-solder and re-solder a surface mount DAC chip (or know someone who can) then DO IT! Seriously, just DO IT! You will not be disappointed. Otherwise, just order a Caiman ;).
I remember someone on various fora (who shall remain nameless but has been now mostly banned) banging on about modern DAC chips all sounding the same and it's the implementation of the rest of the circuit that will make a difference.. Well, I think that theory has been well and truly debunked.
Music to my ears there Rich.
My 7520 is currently getting the Wolfson dac upgrade so your comments on the bass is exactly what I was hoping for. Mine is fitted with the THS4032 so when I get it back I can decide whether or not to install the 4562 and do the MCL5/6 mod.
Thanks Brian and Rich for your excellent descriptions. I now can't wait to have a propper listen to my Caiman over the weekend. I had to go out last night so I left the Caiman sweating over a complex playlist of music and burn-in tracks. Hopefully that will have run it in a reasonable amount.
If I can hear the same improvements over the standard 7520 as you I'll be a very happy chap as they are the areas I feel my system needs to be improved in.
I'm giddy with excitement. :lolsign:
This was the first improvement I noticed. It is a firm and very controlled bass. Clearly the amp and speakers need to be capable.Quote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
I spoke of "a very wide open window onto this music." The words in my mind were "a deeper window", but I changed that because I thought it might imply "tunnel vision". Far from it, what I had in mind falling into a deep hole to be engulfed by the music. Oh dear: I am always very wary of such subjective use of language.Quote:
Soundstage has grown in all directions, especially front to back.
I certainly agreed about the depth of the sound stage. In the Piano Concerto the piano was very far forward and the tympani (at the back of the orchestra) was in my neighbours garden! The width of the sound stage I thought a little better, but was impressive on my speakers before. Is it phase integrity that makes for a good soundstage?
This is improved over the 7510, but was very good before. I had previously commented to Stan that it was one of my first observations on hearing the 7510. At the end of some piano pieces the pianist holds the dampers off and lets the vibration of the strings decay to nothing before closing the dampers. You get some sympathetic vibration from the other strings where the mathematics is right, so it is a complex effect. Listening to such dying sounds as they sink through the noise floor can be very impressive. It was with the 7510 - I must do some more listening with the Caiman.Quote:
I think the biggest difference to my ears has been the tonality and decay in notes from any instrument.
Not listened to too much choral music - just a bit of Palestrina and Purcell - tracks I know to be very clear. Better? Maybe, but not such a striking improvement as the bass and the depth of the sound stage.Quote:
Vocals have taken on more presence and richness and are projected right out into the room. It's like you've moved your chair a few rows closer to the stage.
I heard a few minutes of Britten's Folk songs - tenor and piano. Sounded very good. Must listen to some higher voices - both soprano and treble. If a Counter Tenor sets my teeth on edge I will mark the DAC down!
Agreed. As witnessed by the quality of bowed strings and the right hand in the piano. If a Counter Tenor sets my teeth on edge I will mark the DAC down!Quote:
Then there's the treble: Much sweeter and more natural.
Strengths so far:
1. Impressive sound stage.
2. Clear mid band.
3. Sweet treble.
4. Deep, firm, rich and controlled bass.
Rich (Lovejoy):
What are you listening to? What kind of music?
What are you listening on? What amplification and speakers?
The bass and decay in notes is the first thing I noticed after fitting the WM8716, LM4562HA (with removal of ceramic caps) goes well and I never felt the need to change it
LM4562 probably does match better with the 8716 than 1716
High frequencies are a lot more polished , shame the Caiman couldn't have gone for review with the 7520
Nice write ups though guys:smoking:
I'm listening to all sorts, last night for example was a bit of a 'rock out' night with some Rage Against the Machine, Ministry, Sepultura, which later moved into the more folksy moods of Richard Thompson and Frederick Stanley Star. Some Neil Young along the way and a bit of Electronica - Goldfrapp, Tunng, Massive Attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Today has been Radiohead, Fiona Apple, Joanna Newsom and lots of Radio Paradise whilst I'm working just to get the Caiman running in nicely.
What am I listening through? Well, my Macbook Pro is connected to the Caiman, and then normally that would be going through my Musical Fidelity A3.2 pre-power combo and into a pair of Mark I Shahinian Arcs, but today I am warming up an Aiwa 8700 amp which is crackling a little in one channel at the moment but other than that is sounding quite lovely.
I haven't a clue about any of that stuff, and would probably run a mile rather than listen to it!Quote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
But it is fascinating to note we have made almost identical observations while listening to very different music.
A bit of contact spray like THIS.Quote:
Originally Posted by lovejoy
Nice amp by the way:smoking:. An overlooked gem from the Ol' Skool. I rate it above the TRIO KA-9100, Pioneer SA-9800, and Yamaha CA-1010, which are all from the same era of collectible Japanese vintage integrated amps.
Stan
Are you prepared to tell us how many Caimans are out there, Stan?
Just a few. It's a one-off show piece, outside the price range I feel comfy in. I don't expect a rush for the Caiman, since not everyone needs the majority of its features. I reckon it will mainly attract those who have a very revealing system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Stan
Lack of two optical inputs might be an issue for me, and I have yet to explore that USB input. Want to try it with Foobar in WASAPI mode.
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/130557.aspx
If that's as good as S/PDIF it might change the way I listen, but I do like my Squeezebox.
Step at a time.
Mine on the way as I type!
Post impressions later.
It's a home brew job, 4562 m5/6 mod, with wolsen dac and maplin psu/meaty power lead at 12v.
Will listen to varied range of stuff.
Mine on the way as I type!
Post impressions later.
It's a home brew job, 4562 m5/6 mod, with wolsen dac and maplin psu/meaty power lead at 12v.
Will listen to varied range of stuff.
damn,
everyone jumping onboard and I'm so tempted!!
Keep the review coming lads
Recieved mine hand delivered Friday night from Tirna Elelctronics (the guys who modded the 4032 Op Amp?)
They are less than an hour from where I live, so wanted to make sure the upgrades went ok and get my opinion of the sound.
*Talk about great service!*
We sat for an hour or so comparing the Squeezebox Dac to the Wolfsen'd 7520, talking about the improvements over the stock 7520, squeezebox's and audio in general.
Good guys, good people. Very happy to help, but what struck me most was the genuine feeling of wanting to do a good job and make sure I was happy with their work.
Highly recommended for the other solder-phobics like myself wanting to upgrade their 7520's.
Anyways, the improvements over the stock 7520.
I've not done any serious listening as I'm busy with Project stuff and I'm running it in over the weekend, but even from cold its very apparent this is something else entirely from the stock 7520.
It just sounds...."more". Clearer, deeper bass, more realism, its all there.
It makes the Squeezebox Dac sound flat and like a toy, the Caiman sounds more high end, with more of everything you could think of.
What struck me in particular was the bass depth and timing. Music just hung together and "boogied" better than before. I had felt the 4562 with the stock Dac chip was perhaps a wee bit less full in the bass than I would have liked, but the timing and sense of "being there" made up for it.
The bass is back big time, its deeper and much tighter. It helps the music motor along and its easier to get the "point" of whatever music your listening to.
Thats my initial findings from sitting with the Tirna guys, and an hour or so last night.
More to follow after a few days of burning in.
*EDIT*
Bloody Sods law!
I get my Dac upgraded and my Amp decide's to throw a hissy fit!
The right channel is cutting out every now and again and I have to turn the volume up for it to kick in again.
Sounds like a classic dry joint, but the timing of it is pure pish!*
*(Pure Pish = Quite annoying: Another one of those Scottish phrases I use from time to time..... like bawbag)