I do believe a Lampizator Level 7 is arriving here in about 10 minutes:)
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I do believe a Lampizator Level 7 is arriving here in about 10 minutes:)
Must be there now?
Nice. How's it sound?
Too much socialising going on to know yet:)
Post 2 edited for a better pic showing the Lampizator level 7 DAC with Psvane 2A3s, some Sun Mook Mpingo disks, rjs from the Wam's new Yamamoto pre and Lampizator transport.
I've been off axis all afternoon, but the Lampizator level 7 has a personality not that far removed from the 4. I'm not going to say too much more about the sound until I have had a better listen. Suffice to say though it is definitely really nice, and far removed from the Audio Note sound. Certainly nothing like an Audio Note DAC 4.1 for instance. Watch this space for a more comprehensive assessment later.
The level 7 is on short term loan and I won't have it after Wednesday. I just really wanted to hear one and Greg from G-Point was kind enough to bring one around.
Well, you can't hear it - I can't turn it up loud enough. So you might as well have a better look at it.
So here's a couple of the backage of the DACage.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...ps61b3217d.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...psfea70fae.jpg
Two of the tubeage. I know if I owned this I'd be rolling those 2A3s. Or 45s. Or 300Bs. There seems to be a good supply of 45s left in NOS land at reasonable prices, so it might be a good option. NOS 300Bs are really going to cost, as are 2A3s.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...ps21851f70.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...pseb92512d.jpg
One of the topage.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...psf5094182.jpg
Really must sell the yacht, bad weather and all.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/...ps369e600d.jpg
OK so this DAC is mad. It costs a serious amount of money by most standards.
Am I a pimp selling Lampizator wares? No.
Is this willy waving? No, I don't own it.
Am I getting backhanders to promote it? No I am not.
"It must be a shill, surely. I don't believe a word of what Justin has just said."
More fool you.
Do I realise you can buy a very decent DAC for around £500? Yes I do.
So all BS that pollutes the hi-fi forum scene hopefully dealt with, maybe we can move on:D
This one has the DSD module fitted, so I'll be checking that out using JRiver's on-the-fly conversion later on. DSD mode is selected by pressing the button on the top unit in.
This is one of two level 7s available: Level 7, and the Big 7.
I'd rather have had the Big 7 as I really rate the EML rectifiers in my preamp, so hearing the EML 45 would have been a good thing. However, you can only listen to what is available at the time.
Early listening impressions definitely confirm a house sound not that far removed from the level 4. It sounds like a Lampizator to me. Listening yesterday with rjs (level 4 owner) we both felt the bass to be markedly tighter and less heavy than a 4. This is the most obvious aspect of the difference between the two DACs.
I'll write more as I have concluded more. I'm not really one for writing reviews per se, I just like to add thoughts as I go along.
Ok so far that sounds alright for me. I heard Robert's at Scalford and after a little thinking and raising funds etc I ended up with a Level 4 Gen5 with Duelund caps no pre amp but usb module fitted. A huge improvement on the level 2.8 to 3ish I had heard recently in my system. My understanding is the Level7 comes with Duelunds and that might explain the tautness in bass. Probably wishful thinking on my part but Level4 with Duelunds I think gets you a long way up the ladder in Lampyland.
Nice toy to have for a loan.
I've got the level 4 fired up at the same time as the 7, swapping between the two.
Is the level 7 just different? No, it is just better.
That said, the level 4 is still seriously good.
According to the website there are no caps in the output stage of the 7 two box variant. So in at least some sense, the cap makers can go take a hike.
What I really like about these DACs is they don't sound too coloured, but at the same time they sound thoroughly enjoyable. From what I've heard, and I really have had some extremely good ones here, they are the best to my ears.
DAC now gone:( Onto a chap called Simon whoever he may be via a Wammer. Will do a post proper tomoz. Some interesting things to say. Well, I think so anyway.
Is this good or bad? What's wrong with AN 4.1?Quote:
Originally Posted by User211
Nothing is wrong with an AN 4.1. It is a great DAC. It just sounds nothing like an AN 4.1. I really like the AN 4.1 with a pair of AN Es. I liked it with my speakers but for me it isn't such a good blend in that situation. I hear levels of colouration that are too high for me to accept long term. I didn't hear those colourations to anywhere near the same extent with AN Es. It may well be that the 4.1 has been voiced with AN Es.Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgrau
Anyway DSD - unfortunately, for whatever reason, didn't work. I could only get it to partially work with DSD in DoP. The 2xDSD modes would not work at all. DSD in DoP produced obvious timing errors/glitches. I was using a long USB cable, though, close to the USB 2 limit of 5m if I remember correctly.
Watching CPU usage during even the lowest DSD mode sees JRiver eating much more CPU than with conventional playback - around 30-40% usage on my laptop, whereas with Red Book it is generally less than 8%. The next mode up saw an approximate doubling of CPU usage. But that didn't work anyway. DSD Lampi users anywhere, have you had 2xDSD working?
I wonder whether a shorter, better quality cable like the Lampizator one I just sold would have solved it. I don't know.
Reverting back to conventional playback, it is the best I have heard, to my ears, in my opinion, in my system ever. And by not such a small margin.
Compared to the 4, which I thought didn't have much scope for betterment, it is quite clearly ahead. I volume matched using pink noise. Yet still somehow the 7 sounded louder. It is extraordinary - it just sounds like so much more signal is getting through to the ears.
Then after what'd rjs and I had concluded about the bass, constant neurotic swiching between DACs and material, which we didn't do during our sessions, led me to the conclusion that the 4 really wasn't that far behind it in the bass. The real leap in performance seems to be in the mid and especially the upper mid/treble region.
I became convinced that the frequency response was tailored as the 4 generally sounded quite a bit brighter. I got the Umik mic out and did a system FR of the 4 versus the 7. They were pretty much bang on each other's backs apart from higher in the HF region, 2 DB or so offset in the 7s favour for loudness. I hadn't pink noise volume matched, but it did show that higher up the 7 and 4 converged. That does mean the 7 is a tinsy bit rolled off. But nothing like what I thought I was hearing.
It simply seems that the nature of the 7s HF playback is just a LOT more refined, with the 4 sounding comparatively much more incisive.
That's the overall feeling you get from the 7. It is just so refined sounding, but in a really uncoloured and natural manner. I keep thinking about actually buying it, it is that good:)
You must know your courier very well! Or is it the postman?Quote:
Originally Posted by User211
Edit: oh.. I should have read further before posting that! Didn't realise it was just a listening session - thought you'd bought it.
Nope. Not bought it. I wonder what Emission Labs 2A3s would do to it. Never been a fan of Chinese valves but the 2A3s can't be bad at all. You don't hear sounds like that from sub-par valves.
The FR correlation is badly described above. The 7 was 2DB above the 4 until much higher up the FR, where the 2 DACs matched each other exactly. So therefore the 7 is very slightly rolled off WRT the 4.
Interesting answer as I think this will concur with anubisgrau's thoughts. I am thinking very much about how the higher level Lampizators compare to my Audial Model S DAC, along with what the new LFD DAC5 sounds like, so perhaps time to listen to some new DACs.Quote:
Originally Posted by User211
what's 2A3 tube doing there? a regulator or an output stage?
i have no experience with lampi current stuff so i'm trying to establish myself a sort of benchmark. i know AN4.1x so i can understand what you mean when you say lampi 7's less coloured.
audial S is a great DAC, certainly more neutral than AN. i'm actually thinking of getting one, especially if the price is right. my altmann's finally left my house after 6 years of absolute loyalty.
The 2A3 is part of the output stage.
They do Lampizator coke in Germany...:D
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/17/vynygydy.jpg
Just don't listen to one of these. It will lead to quite serious dissatisfaction.
With what you have that is (wink). The memory of this thing is truly haunting me.
HifiPig review up...
http://hifipig.com/lampizator-level-7-dac/
Surprised actually. That review is alarmingly accurate and in accordance with my own impressions of this exact same unit.
I'll look out for Dan's reviews in the future.
Actually a bit more thoughts now I have read Dan's review at home.
L7 versus L4 on Etherwood's drum'n'bass album named Etherwood. L7 pulverised the L4. The whole album just sounds much more beautiful and engaging via the L7. So having the advantage of both DACs in the house at the same time, the L7 wins on this genre or more specifically this particular recording.
On electronica - Rufus's Atlas album. L7 pulverises L4 again. The level of emotion portrayed by the L7 just transcends the L4 quite significantly.
On The Idiots are winning by Holden - mad, bizarre electronica - L7 distance against L4 narrows a lot. This highlights maybe Dan's point about speed. The L4 just sounds quicker, albeit brighter and more incisive, but what this album blows your mind with is its massive speed - if you have speakers that can render that in the first place that is. The L7 somehow dulls the speed aspect, but it is still great in other areas.
In other words, if you like electronic music I really wouldn't write this DAC off in any way, shape or form. I take the point about loss of speed but it still renders electronic music extremely well IMHO.
It ain't too bad on rock either. I listen to rock/reggae and electronica and I still rate it up there.
Also, recently I heard an AN DAC 4.1 that sounded quite different to another 4.1. One was a kit however, the other was originally a prototype. They were quite different I think, one sounding far less coloured than the other. This shows just how impossible it is to be certain what you've heard is the same thing as someone else has.
In this case, however, Dan's L7 was the exact same one I had. The lack of customisation available on L7s means reviews should really be talking about pretty much the same machines. Not so with lower level Lampizators i.e. 4 and 5s.
All that said, I'll say it again, the L4 is still a great DAC. The L7 it just really seriously good. And so it should be:)
I had to have a serious word with Dan. He had this DAC and didn't tell me! I only live 5 minutes away. Grrr.
value for money 8.5/10 for a 8k DAC FFS??!!!
It passed through my house after Justin, en route to the mythical 'Simon', so I could have a listen.(Wam Taxi Depot)
Pretty fine.
(I use a MHDT Havana, much upgraded)
It -the 7 - had more definition and separation than the Havana and a nice way of letting you picture the musicians in their own space, where apt.
But at 16X price.....I'll stick!
Thinking of Zero 1 to simplify set-up......but I need to research Streaming -How to-, as I'm still a bit Luddite/ignorant on that score.
But we have a Tablet in the house, streaming away, so....how hard can it be?
Here is a Lampi Big7 review/feedback from the USA:
AS i have had my B7 for about 4 or 5 days now going 12 hours at 6 and 6 at a time . The pcm is as good or better than my MSB Platinum stack (with Galaxy 2 clock upgrade) . As it plays i am in amazement . The presentation is awesome its like hearing your music collection all over again. My home cpu stinks, and the dsd was good but not giving the wow that the pcm has. So i fired up my iMac and audirvana plus . I put on Elvis 57 (a dsd download) . Its a dsd64 transfer from analog . Track 3 has a simple clapping in the left channel . Now clapping is a simple sound but so is a piano and most dacs stink at it, but this dac is giving me the texture of the hands as they clap. The only time i have heard this is with my MSB stack . This may seem simple but its a milestone . This dac has given me my wow moment. I can hear into the recording so deep that it gives me chills of realism . I now have my WOW moment.
thanks lukas for this device and at this price its an even better wow for me.
Big 7 heading this way... will let you know what I think.
Will say though that it takes a while to recover from an L7 - a few weeks, in fact. Then a Lampi level 4 seems very nice indeed thank you.
But once heard....:lol:
Yeah J,
My pal has the NYC Big7 and I am living vicariously thru him. He is sooo excited by the SQ!!!!
He is a DSD lover but the Big7 PCM has him spellbound!
If I was going to try DSD again I'd pre-convert it - in other words I wouldn't use JRiver's on the fly conversion. On my laptop that might stand a chance of working at higher bit rates.
I'm fine with the PCM, though. That works well enough for me.
Well, the soon to arrive Big7 will have DSD, so just play it back at native rate...you will be pleased.
No it won't be fitted to the B7 unit I get. I should have the L7 this thread was raised for at the same time.
Nice. I am drooling with envy....
Justin, I'd be fascinated to bring my slightly 'upped' vintage Techie SL-P1200 cdp round just to see how it compares with what could perhaps be claimed to be the current state of the art.
... and also to see how the Lampi 7 does with a range of classical music. :)
I think he is getting the Big 7, not the L7.
Ah right - I've rather lost the plot with model names. :)
I can send you a CII to try, but only if you promise not to use your graphic equalizer in line with the signal path.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandl100
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by StanleyB
OK - that's a deal, Stan. :thumbsup:
No I should have been getting both L7 and B7 at the same time. However, they seem a long time coming, LOL.
Jerry - sure no problem. Be amusing if I discovered what I really needed was a Techie. Last minute sanity check would be most welcome:)
Just e-mailed Greg to find out what is going on.
Did an L7 versus B7 comparison today. Ran both with the same Psvane 211-T 2A3 valves plus the same rectifiers. They are very close - so close for it to be almost if not a non-issue.
However the B7 can run both 45 or 2A3s. This puts it at an advantage. Will say more tomorrow.
I actually wrote the below a few days ago. So here it is:)
The B7 seems to have turned up. I've had it a few days now with Shuguang & Electro Harmonix 2A3s, plus
Emission Labs 45s. This is possible as the unit now has a switch that allows both tube types to be used.
This provides a degree of flexibility the L7 doesn't have - better for tube rolling freaks in other words.
Results with all valve types are really very good. The Emission Labs 45s (note: not the mesh plate version,
which may be better still) are the smoothest sounding of the lot, with the biggest soundstage. The real
surprise is the Electro Harmonix 2A3, which is absurdly cheap compared to the EMLs. It retains a degree of
bite should you feel the need for it, but has excellent characteristics elsewhere too. The Shuguang 2A3-Z
makes the unit sound a lot more like the L7 as I remember it, which had a higher grade Shuguang 2A3-T in
it.
The DAC is remarkably even handed across the frequency range. Detail retrieval, separation and imaging
appears to be absolutely first rate. Transients appear un-hyped and natural.
Referring to Martin Colloms Duetta Signature review from 1988:
"As is the wont with good speakers, this design did not impose itself on first hearing; rather it sounded smooth, unexaggerated and apparently unassuming. If you are looking for superficial excitement, head-banging dynamics, or an exaggerated clarity and attack, the Duetta may well disappoint. It has inner qualities whose strengths can only be realized with the help of the finest sources. It would be easy to misjudge the Signatures, ascribing fault where the blame really lies with the cable, power amplifier, or earlier source components. Despite some minor flaws, this speaker's behaviour shows most clearly that the major aspects of its performance are relatively unbounded, given the present state of the art. By this I mean that the music-making and the information-retrieving aspects of the Duetta Signature are superior to the best of present-day sources and electronics, and thus barely impose any limit upon them. There is clearly scope to accommodate future improvements, while an existing system will perform to its practical limit with the Signature."
Hearing how these speakers behave with this DAC really re-enforces this view, even in 2014. It just becomes
more and more obvious as time goes on that the speakers just reveal anything naff in a source or partnering
amps. Any faults you hear are almost exclusively due to something upstream not being up to par.
So little can genuinely be criticized with this DAC. It doesn't seem to emphasize anything in particular. However,
it's replay characteristics can be fined tuned by changing the valves, just as it can with ny other tube
DAC. Though the extent to which the sound can be altered is of course limited. This means that it is not
absolutely correct. No source component ever will be I suspect.
There is probably some degree of euphony over absolute accuracy, but in this game you never know what absolute accuracy actually is. Sure there are more exciting sounding machines out there, but is this the result of some sort of hype in other machines or is the B7 relatively very slightly laid back in nature? I'd probably wager a bit of both. That doesn't mean to say it can't sound exciting with the right material. It most definitely can, especially with a liberal dose of volume and the right source material.
Every time I switch back to the level 4 for a reality check, I realise the B7 is superior playing the same music.
I could rant on but you've just got to listen to know. And let's face it anyone interested at this level is going to do precisely that.
Excessive bass seems to be far less of an issue with the B7 than the L4. The Duetta isn't perfectly flat in the bass despite the above statement from Martin, which to be fair he mentions later in the Duetta review. Someone who owns a much more expensive MSB DAC prefers the B7 to it. Which kind of begs the question where do you go from here? What is better? Dumb question. Anything you prefer, if you take the trouble to listen. I just think you're going to have to listen to a hell of a lot of expensive DACs to find something genuinely better, whatever better actually means to you.
For anyone interested in Duetta Signatures, the 1988 review can be found at http://www.apogeespeakers.com/. For me, this remains the finest practical domestic loudspeaker I have ever heard or owned. This DAC just further seals or rubber stamps that opinion.
Sorry about the odd formatting above it was a post from Notepad and I just can't be bothered to fix it. I really hate vBulletin's edit controls so we'll put it down to the fact it is just shite, both here and on other forums using it.
Got some 1920s Cunningham CX-345 (45) tubes on the way. I just have to hear how these 90 year old tubes actually sound. And some 6X5GT Raytheon rectifiers coming over the pond too.
A bit more on the tubes. The EML 45 really does have very smooth mid range and casts a huge soundstage. With a pair of large planars this soundstage can get so large it is crazy with some recordings. For me a bit too large sometimes but it is a real ear opener and huge fun to actually witness. It works very well with female vocals and acoustic music in general. Probably great with classical but I'm not into it.
The cheap as chips EH 2A3 - upper mid range bite. Tight bass. More restrained imaging (smaller soundstage) than the EML. In truth the imaging is excellent. Just as it is with the next tube.
Psvane 2A3-T. I think this is possibly the best all-rounder. Lacks the bite of the EH 2A3 but isn't as smooth as the EML 45. A great compromise between the two extremes. Excellent tight bass, nice sized soundstage. Excellent resolution. But all these tubes seem to display excellent resolution in this circuit.
I hope this helps any future L7/B7 owners in their valve purchasing decisions, which is the reason I have posted it, really. What an altruistic fellow:D
Timing is everything! Got my first listen to a Big 7 last night. Just to look the unit is really impressive. Perspex lid allows a glimpse of what lays beneath. It is bloody Big. Largest Dac I have ever seen. Barely any hours on it but as Justin reports above this is very special sounding. I have a L4.5 which sounds lovely to me but B7 is just a big leap ahead of it in terms of density of texture, harmonic richness and huge soundstage. Can't see where you could go after this. Tried it against a Meitner also and while the MA1 probably resolves detail to a 'greater' level the B7 is the one I would pick as a keeper. Would reckon Lukasz has a lot of customers with enough funds beating a door to upgrade to L7/B7 should mean some secondhand bargains for those interested in this flavour of dac. It wont be everybody's cup of tea. DCS lovers will more than likely run a mile but for beguiling and enthralling sound the B7 is the only one.
It's all relative. Compared to a Jolida Glass FXII DAC 8.5/10 VFM is a joke. Compared to similar priced DACs value for money maybe be 13/10, LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgrau