Comparing Class T Amps

I've just bought my second Mini-T amp, this one a model SA-S3 from SMSL based on the Tripath TA-2021 chip. It accepts 14V DC and pushes out 13.5Wpc into 8 ohms.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_SS500_.jpg

The reason I bought it was to upgrade from my model SA-S1, based on the Tripath TA-2020 (they look identical) and performing desktop computer duties. Even driving the nearfield speakers by my PC monitor, I felt the lack of power far too readily and decided that a little more power wouldn't go amiss. Upgrading the voltage rail to 14V would give it a little more headroom, so I've ordered a 14V 5A SMPS (my original SA-S1 based on the TA-2020 can only accept 12V).

Now to my observation: even powered from the same 12V adapter, I think this TA-2021 based amp sounds better: a little fuller in the bass, slightly more focussed soundstage and even finer detail presentation. Have others compared these different Tripath chips and reached similar or even different conclusions? It seems that not all Mini-T amps are built equal.

Interesting Martin . Bearing in mind its limitations are you recommending this amp ? Had an Amptastic mini t and really did like it.

For nearfield use like I do here, running from my PC via a Caiman DAC into a pair of Fostex based speakers, the Mini-T is nigh-on perfect. Small, efficient, generates no heat and sounds far more transparent than it has any right to. For about £25 plus a PSU, I really can't see how it could be beaten.

Thanks Martin .

For nearfield computer use a Lepai 2020A does me. I got it because I wanted to try the 2020 chip and I must say it sounds good. For under £20 you cannot go wrong.

Temple Audio are the best I've heard. They use Analogue Devices chip though.

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Originally Posted by MartinT

For nearfield use like I do here, running from my PC via a Caiman DAC into a pair of Fostex based speakers, the Mini-T is nigh-on perfect. Small, efficient, generates no heat and sounds far more transparent than it has any right to. For about £25 plus a PSU, I really can't see how it could be beaten.

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What is the type of Fostex speakers Martin ?
Had been looking at the 126En as a possible kit build as a second system, but not sure whether a T would be enough.

Fostex FF125WK.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...400#post417400

Cheers Martin, I forgot, now recollect reading that, case from Moldova, very nice.... Some further research needed my end I think...

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Originally Posted by Covenant

For nearfield computer use a Lepai 2020A does me. I got it because I wanted to try the 2020 chip and I must say it sounds good. For under £20 you cannot go wrong.

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I've just bought one for a silly sub £12, albeit minus a PSU.

Any comments on TA-2020 versus 2021?

Also, any observations on whether a big linear PSU sounds better than, say, a 5A switched mode PSU?

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Originally Posted by icehockeyboy

I've just bought one for a silly sub £12, albeit minus a PSU.

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Wow, I thought I did well for £17! Don't bother with the tone controls, good job there is a defeat button.

Hi Martin,

A big linear PSU like the SR5 or the SR7 does work very well with class T amps like the DIY Paradise Charlise and Virtue Audio amps that use these chips, as the supply line rejection is not usually that good on these designs. I see no reason why your amp should not see a benefit also. If you have time for a DIY project I can send you a high power PR3iEHD-12/14 linear regulator for R&D purposes.

Regards,
Paul

Thanks, Paul. I know of old that your PSUs are excellent for low power duties and indeed have PH supplies for my Technics SL-1210, Logitech Touch and Beresford Bushmaster, all of which significantly enhance SQ over the original PSU.

I would be very interested in evaluating a PR3i 14V module and reporting back here on its performance. Shall we continue by PM?

A good linear supply made all the difference to the Golds Martin, well worth doing IMHO.

maplins linear psu made a noticeable improvement to my original bantum..... couldn't tell you which one though....

Ah, that's good to hear chaps. I'll start planning a brute 14.5V 5A linear PSU build, then (the max recommended operating conditions for the TA-2021).

I use a good linear power supply really makes a difference but so does using a really good pre too on the Bantam I am now at the point where it be hard to go back to anything else

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Originally Posted by MartinT

Ah, that's good to hear chaps. I'll start planning a brute 14.5V 5A linear PSU build, then (the max recommended operating conditions for the TA-2021).

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:popcorn:

Would be interested in your findings Martin, for what it is worth, l have three T-amps and the PSU is so important and they do make a difference- big time, my battery powered Virtue Audio Sensation M451 sounds quite awesome frankly...:)

I'm running the Mini-T on a 12V SMPS right now. I have a 14V one arriving tomorrow. Soon I'll start building a 14.5V linear PSU. I'll be able to compare and report on them in due course.

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Originally Posted by MartinT

I'm running the Mini-T on a 12V SMPS right now. I have a 14V one arriving tomorrow. Soon I'll start building a 14.5V linear PSU. I'll be able to compare and report on them in due course.

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Cool, would be interested in your findings Martin:)

I run my 2020 amp off a power supply from Thunderpole (CB radio site)

forgot to mention....the original bantum sounds great in conjunction with the battery pack that was recommended for the bush master dac-in conjunction with an active pre. hooked it up last night with the maplins psu vn 10l with a red m in the right hand corner lovely presentation with spendors!!!!

just plumbed in the battery pack that was powering the bantum in the garage with the aid of a fiio head amp.....lovely!!!!

dont know how long it will last in the main set up but it is very pleasant indeed!

Bloody hell!
I was awaiting the delivery of the PSU so that I could try the sub £12 Lepai LP 2020A+' and my neighbour just brought it over.

I am absolutely zonked that for less than £18 I have an amazing sounding amp, which will be more than adequate for its duties in the conservatory!

Having tried many devices at Currys and PCW that were around £100 minimum, this amp has to be the steal of the century! :eek:

I think I might invest in a Belkin Bluetooth device now to save wiring the iPad to it, totalling around £41 for a Bluetooth enabled amp. Amazing!!!!!!!

I have an application for one in the work gaff, and can either bring a decent one in or get a Lepai here (place is swarming with chinese everything including cars - ever seen genuine stainless steel rust?).
PSUs are not a problem, but figuring which speaker I can DIY here that would suit it is, as would have to bring the parts in.
Anybody got any experience on that as don't fancy humungous Sachikos or similar... I know Martin's fostex impressed him, but any others have recommendations they might share ?

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Originally Posted by icehockeyboy

Bloody hell!
I was awaiting the delivery of the PSU so that I could try the sub £12 Lepai LP 2020A+' and my neighbour just brought it over.

I am absolutely zonked that for less than £18 I have an amazing sounding amp, which will be more than adequate for its duties in the conservatory!

Having tried many devices at Currys and PCW that were around £100 minimum, this amp has to be the steal of the century! :eek:

I think I might invest in a Belkin Bluetooth device now to save wiring the iPad to it, totalling around £41 for a Bluetooth enabled amp. Amazing!!!!!!!

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Fancy making it even better? :)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class...od-thread.html

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Originally Posted by icehockeyboy

Bloody hell!
I was awaiting the delivery of the PSU so that I could try the sub £12 Lepai LP 2020A+' and my neighbour just brought it over.

I am absolutely zonked that for less than £18 I have an amazing sounding amp, which will be more than adequate for its duties in the conservatory!

Having tried many devices at Currys and PCW that were around £100 minimum, this amp has to be the steal of the century! :eek:

I think I might invest in a Belkin Bluetooth device now to save wiring the iPad to it, totalling around £41 for a Bluetooth enabled amp. Amazing!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Covenant

Fancy making it even better? :)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class...od-thread.html

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Nah! But thanks anyway, it is more than good for its role as background din dins music in the conservatory, which is used as our dining room.

Now, why on earth the trouble suggested a music system for in there when the Ushers are just a few feet away I will never fathom, but there we are, and it is almost invisible where I've placed it too, so double bonus! :lol:

Hmmm a hifi in the dining room......:hmm:

Perfect for the dining room (where I use mine - and used to be hidden behind a plate, with a 3.5mm to RCA lead - just plug in ipod or laptop/DAC as needed - simples! :) )

I bought a cheap 14V 5A switched mode power supply in order to test my assumption that the TA-2021 will sound better when run at 14V compared with the TA-2020 Mini-T amp that runs at 12V. One of these from eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1806883876...84.m1497.l2649

Moving from the 12V to 14V adapter, there is a definite improvement in focus and clarity and a reduction in congestion when the wick is turned up and things get busy. Bass definition is also improved and there is just a little more kick. This when used with my small Fostex-based PC system. I would say that where the TA-2020 running at 12V was pushing against the limits of comfortable running in nearfield listening, the TA-2021 running at 14V has sufficient headroom for anything I want to play.

Very pleasing, and has confirmed that building a proper linear PSU is well worth the effort. I shall be building a 14.5V PSU based on Paul Hynes' PR3iEHD module when it arrives. More when I have all the parts.

Can you please provide a link to the amp you are using with this power supply Martin . Ta .

It's this exact one, Brian:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1608670183...84.m1497.l2649

Ignore the listing spec that says DC 9-12V. The amp actually has 14V printed on the back and the TA-2021 chip is spec'd for 14.5V normal operation.

Thanks Martin .

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Originally Posted by MartinT

It's this exact one, Brian:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1608670183...84.m1497.l2649

Ignore the listing spec that says DC 9-12V. The amp actually has 14V printed on the back and the TA-2021 chip is spec'd for 14.5V normal operation.

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Hi Martin,

I bought the TA-2020 from the same seller and that is good as well. Use it for my tele into a pair of Gale Gold Monitors.

Regards

You're a b*gger you are MartinT. I've saved the ebay pages and have plans :mad:.... The Thunderpole linear? power suplies look good too - the 5-7A one?

:)

Yes, the Thunderpoles do look the business, no idea how they would sound but they seem promising.

The 14.5V linear power supply is built! Project photos here.

You could have bought a proper amp for all that outlay :lol:

Nah - that wasn't the object of the exercise! In any case, having heard it now, I'm not so sure. Nearfield listening like that exposes an awful lot and demands very high quality at low-ish power, not something most budget amps deliver.

Just teasing :) Well done for your efforts :respect:

A properly implemented digital switching amplifier can sound exceptionally good, those with on board output devices seem to work best (especially with switch times around the 25n/s mark) but are some what limited in terms of power around 70Wrms before the THD goes south.

Ultra clean and stiff regulated power supplies are the key here along with the separate dedicated 5Vdc rail to the control unit.

They are a couple of design about that regularly show a Dartzeel the way home.

A few years ago I built a unit capable of swinging very high current(in excess of 90 amps) again around the 24n/s region, yet to find an amplifier I would change it for that doesn't cost the price of small garage in London!

Yes that the magic of D Class done well

There are still lot's of people who don't like them, I wonder if it's because they have an expensive amp and can't accept something so cheap can be almost as good?
Is the new Amptastic out yet?

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Originally Posted by Covenant

There are still lot's of people who don't like them, I wonder if it's because they have an expensive amp and can't accept something so cheap can be almost as good?

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In my experience Jerry, it is the match with the speakers that is important - not sure whether it is impedence or sensitivity that makes the difference, but whilst I loved the (original) Amptastic Mini-T with my Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo 3 floorstanders, it falls flat on its face (IMHO) with both pairs of Wharfedale Diamonds I have, as they seem to like a lot more juice up 'em. For me, then, I think they are great - if matched correctly, and nothing to do with "snobbery" over the cost.

Yeah the speaker match is critical.

I used a Trends TA10.1 (I think) into some little Mission M30i speakers and the result was amazing....

However other combinations have been 'meh'.

I once tried another t-amp with some speakers I had at the time (can't remember) and it was also a total fail...

I've been toying with the idea of a Topping TP60 as it has two inputs, plenty of power and decent power supply.

Rob.

Yup, there is l believe a snobbery regarding the cheap T-amps, people should be scared.


Also Rob the Topping TP60 does look interesting and powerful:)

The T60 is nice (has a good bit of clout) but it lacks transparency of something like the Amptastic or Bantam

I'm someone who's had a bit of a love and not in love relationship with T-amps. I wouldn't go as far as love/hate though. T-amps to me seem picky about speakers, hardly surprising for the low powered ones....also as suggested Martin et al, the power supply is very important. Get things a little wrong I find you end up with either a very "easy" sound or an edgy one. In-between those two extremes is where we all want to be. I'm currently using an Arjen TA2020 amp and comparing it to my Bantam Gold. Both are performing excellently. They are powered from an Ordo linear supply running at 14V.

What pre are you using Clive

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Originally Posted by John

What pre are you using Clive

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It's the AVC-1 which I'm writing the review for currently. It's a fully remote controlled version of the Salge AVCs you use John. The AVCs attenuate a little more than yours, the steps are from -54db to +7db in 1db steps so there is very fine control. The sound is almost identical to yours.