Printable View
Hello all:
I will soon be getting a Thorens TD160 with Sumiko MMT and DL103. I need to get a new phono stage for this set up and not entirely sure which way to go. I am currently thinking about the Gram Amp 3 Fanfare and hoping someone can provide some input. I have also considered the Phonomena II, and also wondering if I should get the K&K SUT right away? Trying not to spend more than about $500 for now. Thanks in advance for any input you can provide.
Hi Jim (I presume?)
Welcome to AOS :)
Nice set-up you've got there, especially the MMT, which will match very well with your DL-103. I have much experience with using this cartridge and optimising its performance, so would recommend the following:
1) An extra-heavy detachable headshell for your Sumiko. The stock one is good quality but unfortunately not quite high enough in mass to ideally suit the 103 - it's about 6g too light to be optimal, so you need one of these (make sure you go for an LH-18, which has a mass of 18g):
http://www.audiocubes2.com/brand/Aud...ead_Shell.html
I use one of those myself, along with a Fidelity Research S/5, and they're excellent. There is also no alignment required as the headshell is supplied with two sets of pre-drilled screws which the cartridge screws into from the underneath of the headshell, avoiding the need for tedious to use nuts on the top. Simply select the holes nearest the front of the headshell, screw some bolts in, and your cartridge will be perfectly aligned - you can check it with your usual protractor.
2) In my experience, the 103 works best with a MC step-up transformer in conjunction with a MM phono stage. With your budget, I would buy one of these from the same site:
http://www.audiocubes2.com/brand/Den...ng_Trance.html
They're great little things and are designed purposely with the 103 in mind.
You then have the option of buying whichever MM phono stage you fancy which fits in with the remainder of your budget. I would say that the Graham Slee entry-level ones are as good as any at that price, or those from Creek, Pro-ject, etc. Or you could try one of these which are also rather good:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audio-Technica-A...4.c0.m14.l1262
Or:
http://cgi.ebay.com/YAMAHA-HA-5-Phon...4.c0.m14.l1262
Hope this helps. If there's anything else you need to know just ask! :cool:
Marco.
Marco, that's great info thanks. I'll get the denon sut today. With regard to the two mm amps you suggest.....I currently have the NAD PP2. Would either of these be a step up?
Hi Jim,
No worries. Don't forget to buy the AT headshell, too - this is absolutely ESSENTIAL (I can't stress this enough), as the stock Sumiko headshell is too light for a 103 and the cartridge will sound bright and rather 'shouty' as a result, certainly compared with how I know the cartridge should sound when optimised.
The PP2 is a very good little budget MM stage, but if it were me I'd be tempted to try the Audio Technica. I've not used one personally, but given AT's reputation with phono accessories I suspect that it will be really good and a step up from the NAD. It looks rather like one of those little 'treasures' one usually only finds for sale on the Japanese market.
If you decide to go for it, do let us know how you get on :)
Best,
Marco.
The step ups Marco refers to are transformers, used to increase the low voltage output from the cartridge to a sufficient level to drive the phono stage, and also to match the impedances.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmieg
Hehe... I think he meant the two phono stages I linked to on Ebay being a "step up" (improvement) from his PP2... You're doing well these days, Kevin! :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
I should have been more clear. Yes I meant "step up" as "improvement." I am comparing these to the Hagerman Bugle which I have always heard about as a budget favorite. I called Hagerman and spoke to them today, and was told that if I purchased one assembled and not as a kit, they could set it up at high enough gain (60) to accomodate low output moving coils. I still want the Denon step up (as in signal boost). Should I order the Bugle as it were going to be used with mm cartridges or with mc? Thanks again, Jim
Hi Jim
If you want to use the Denon Step Up transformer then yes you will have to order the Hagerman Bugle as a MM. If you have the MC version you can't use a step up, you would overload the phono stage...way to much gain. I have read a lot about the Hagerman Bugle. Are you based in the USA ? Or if not where? Some folks might like to know about costs, shipping etc (including me). These all valve phono stages are made in Hawaii, and get a good write up.
How about a review for Strokes of Genius when you get it and you are all settled in with it + some nice photos.
Welcome to the forum by the way :) You should pop into the welcome section of the forum, and say hello and tell us a bit about yourself, your kit, the music you like etc. You might also like to place some photos of your kit in the gallery...folks here love to see nice photos.
Regards D S D L----Neil :)
Hello Neil:
I will go over to the "welcome section" after I post this and give a proper introduction. I had some system pics on audiogon awhile back but took them down because I was upgrading. In a couple of weeks I will have my new turntable and I will post some photos then.
I am in the USA, Dallas, TX. Hagerman is in Hawaii and the price for a pre-assembled Bugle is $149USD. I have not yet ordered it but I think shipping is about $21 for me. He said he was just back from vacation and it would be at least 2 weeks before he would get to it. Marco suggested the AT-PEQ20 and I have never heard of it but would like to get some info on it before ordering the Bugle.
Jim
Hi Jim
Thanks ....bare in mind once you order the MM version you will always have to use the Step up transformer for MC cartridges except high out put ones which usually have the gain of a MM cartridge.
Regards D S D L---Neil:)
Hi Jim,
I have replied regarding this on your thread in the welcome area :)Quote:
Marco suggested the AT-PEQ20 and I have never heard of it but would like to get some info on it before ordering the Bugle.
Marco.
Hello all-
Lot's of great advice on the site for getting the best from the DL-103. I just bought a DL-103SA, have an EAR834P enroute and am leaning toward the Bob's Devices Cinemag SUT. I'm really looking forward to it.
So, I understand the "more mass is better" concept for the DL-103, and the AT headshells look like a great option. But I would assume that at some point, depending on the tonearm, you could overweight the arm and start moving in the wrong direction.
With that in mind, what would be an optimum total headshell weight to shoot for (headshell/cartridge/spacer/screws, etc) when using the DL-103SA on a TT like the Technics SL-1100A with stock EPA-110 tonearm? I haven't been able to find exact specs on this arm, but others here have advised that it's a medium to high mass arm.
Thanks for any advice you can offer-
I should still add that even though over-massing the arm can be good if the cantilever assembly is well damped, the basic compliance of the 103's isn't that low, which makes me wonder if there's something else in play. Using an 18 gramme shell is going to take the arm-cart resonance down to warp frequencies (and a springy sub-chassis ought to be avoided I feel).
Anyway, good luck to all prospective and actual 103 owners.
P.S. WHY does this stuff have to be so expensive? The prices seem to have increased by at least 50% in the last ten years or so, yet relative wages haven't IMO. The Dynavector 10XV was £225 IIRC when introduced and now it's £300. The 20 series has gone from £300 to nearly £500 and the 17D's (which I always liked a lot although the OC9 is probably easily as good) are now several hundred quid. The currency situation can't account for all of this, can it?
Rant over :lol:
If the Hagerman Piccolo is anything to go by, I´d go for the Bugle for MCs and its own power supply instead of batteries. I use one with my Piccolo fixed at max gain (26dB) and it is totally silent. Of course I use a Troika and not a 103.
P.S. Experiment with the load impedance resistors - when I fitted Schinkohs, things got a lot better.
Hello Marco,
I've seen your suggestion about the Denon DL-103 pickup.
I am also planning to buy a Denon DL-103 but the "R" version and I am looking for a suitable headshell for it. I am using an SME 3009 II (non improved) tonearm and would like to ask you opinion which headshell should I but for this combination?
Also which bias and rider weights should I use with this?
Regarding the SUT for the Denon first I was planning to buy a vintage Siemens T41 transformer but after reading some posts here I decided and ordered the Haufe transformers.
I would really appreciate your kind help,
László
From a high of 250 Yen to the pound in mid 2007 its now trading at about half that ie 128 Yen to the pound, so no surprise that the costs of Japanese goods have doubled recentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by DSJR