Loudspeaker sensitivity

OK let’s get to the point…!

I have an Icon Audio Stereo 200PP which for those who don’t know is an EL84 powered amplifier of 15 Watts per channel. At the moment I use a cheap pair of Celestion F28 loudspeakers of 89 db/W/m at Im distance of course. I am toying with the idea of upgrading as soon as funds allow to a pair of Stirling Broadcast Monitors of 83 db/W/m. How in practice is this going to change things given that it is a change of 6db which should be a quartering of loudness.

Also, does anyone know if the Stirlings address the LS3/5a problem of unbelievable tizzyness in the treble…? I used to love my early Rogers LS3/5a’s and definitely regret getting rid of them. If this situation is really hopeless I may stick with my original plan of a pair of Audio Note AZ-2’s but these are floorstanders and my room is only about fourteen feet by twelve with a high ceiling. I listen at a distance of around eight feet.

I'd go for the audio notes with that amp.

I have a good selection of speakers, you are welcome to bring your amp around to mine to try a few higher efficiency speakers out with your amp including some lowther accoustas , there are a few pairs including vintage leaks, kefs and sansui speakers I could dig out. I'm just over the bridge..

I used the 80dB Kolts with the 2wpc Decware Zen, perfect for my smaller room but did notice it just about run out of puff at the very high end of my listening loudness. The 10wpc A10 I have/had is more than enough needed with the Kolts.
At the end of the day, minimonitors like the Kolts and LS3/5A are not going to take more than that before they start distorting and giving up.

I also used the 80dB ATC SCM10's with a T-Amp in a small room which was more than enough volume wise.

I'd say that in general terms sensitivity of 83Db/W/1m is too low for a 15wpc amp, but it depends on what volume levels and room size you use. You may get quite a bit of dynamic compression and/or distortion on peaks, but some quite like the effect :).

If possible demo with your amp before committing, but I'd be looking at speakers with greater sensitivity myself.

Cheers,
Alex

In their day I believe that LS3's were not run with high power amps so I reckon you should be alright.

In general the old BBC designs are not sensitive but do not have difficult loads either. Their impedance curves are pretty easy and at least for smaller rooms and not so loud listening levels 15-20W could be well enough.

There are speakers that rate more than 90db/W/m and still require awfully lot more from the amplifier than these BBC heritage ones because of difficult impedance load with phases etc.

So I think you should just try it! ;)

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Originally Posted by Mika K

In general the old BBC designs are not sensitive but do not have difficult loads either. Their impedance curves are pretty easy and at least for smaller rooms and not so loud listening levels 15-20W could be well enough.

There are speakers that rate more than 90db/W/m and still require awfully lot more from the amplifier than these BBC heritage ones because of difficult impedance load with phases etc.

So I think you should just try it! ;)

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Good post. :)

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Originally Posted by Haselsh1

OK let’s get to the point…!

I have an Icon Audio Stereo 200PP which for those who don’t know is an EL84 powered amplifier of 15 Watts per channel. At the moment I use a cheap pair of Celestion F28 loudspeakers of 89 db/W/m at Im distance of course. I am toying with the idea of upgrading as soon as funds allow to a pair of Stirling Broadcast Monitors of 83 db/W/m. How in practice is this going to change things given that it is a change of 6db which should be a quartering of loudness.

Also, does anyone know if the Stirlings address the LS3/5a problem of unbelievable tizzyness in the treble…? I used to love my early Rogers LS3/5a’s and definitely regret getting rid of them. If this situation is really hopeless I may stick with my original plan of a pair of Audio Note AZ-2’s but these are floorstanders and my room is only about fourteen feet by twelve with a high ceiling. I listen at a distance of around eight feet.

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Shaun,
just a note: I own a pair of AZ-Threes (yes, 3) and use them in a 12x15 feet room, almost as yours, with a 8 feet high ceiling w/o ANY problem :) also, IMHO they're the best sounding speakers under 3K, and a pretty easy load, as well - I drive them w/ a 12W/ch valve integrated (and a 60W/ch ss one in summer). if you take my word, just buy the AZ-Twos, they lag behind only by -2dBs ;)

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Originally Posted by trane

Shaun,
just a note: I own a pair of AZ-Threes (yes, 3) and use them in a 12x15 feet room, almost as yours, with a 8 feet high ceiling w/o ANY problem :) also, IMHO they're the best sounding speakers under 3K, and a pretty easy load, as well - I drive them w/ a 12W/ch valve integrated (and a 60W/ch ss one in summer). if you take my word, just buy the AZ-Twos, they lag behind only by -2dBs ;)

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Cheers for that as the AZ-2's are one of the finest sounding loudspeakers I have ever heard when driven by low powered valve amplifiers. I think that is the route I shall eventually take.

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Originally Posted by Mika K

In general the old BBC designs are not sensitive but do not have difficult loads either. Their impedance curves are pretty easy and at least for smaller rooms and not so loud listening levels 15-20W could be well enough.

There are speakers that rate more than 90db/W/m and still require awfully lot more from the amplifier than these BBC heritage ones because of difficult impedance load with phases etc.

So I think you should just try it! ;)

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+1 :)

Go for it, Shaun. I think you'll love it! :exactly:

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Haselsh1

Cheers for that as the AZ-2's are one of the finest sounding loudspeakers I have ever heard when driven by low powered valve amplifiers. I think that is the route I shall eventually take.

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there is only one thing you should be pretty cautious when having purchased the AZ-Twos (or any AN AZ speakers), Shaun, that is placement. I played a whole day until I could find their best location sonics-wise as they are EXTREMELY sensitive to that. first, do NOT install the spikes, experiment w/o, otherwise your floor would look as if a mad driller has just left the house ;) then choose a well-known but simple instrumented track - e.g. I used J. Coltrane's 'Summertime' from his My Favorite Things album, mainly with the double bass solo part - and start placing the speakers as advised by AN, placed right in the corners. move them just forward by the cm (NO kidding) until you realise that may be the best bass you can get out of them w/o being thin or overblown (the latter is pretty hard to achieve w/ the AZ series but in relation to the room acoustics can still be experienced). when the bass thing is done move the speakers sideways starting from ~10cms from the side wall by the cm, too - but heed that do not step over the best-bass-line forward. you can use the same sound track, or something with a piano and/or voice (though strings and harpsichord can also help), and move the speakers center-wise until the best mids/highs are achieved. when you feel you've finished for checking you can move the speakers any way back-forth-sideways, but do MARK the 'best sound' location before - though, I reckon, THAT will remain the spot. and now you can fit the spikes - and start experimenting w/ the tilt ;) . to help, for me the best balance is achieved with the speakers tilted back just a bit than level - though can't tell you the degree. good luck, mate :)

ooops, just forget to add that
1., experiment with one (1) speaker at a time only - much easier to determine the best placement (just turn the balance fully to one channel - to the one you're actually listening to ;) ), or use a mono-recorded music (from e.g. D. Brubeck's Time Out album)
2., if you don't want to ruin your AZ's bottom put something under them on which they can be moved (rather, towed/pushed) easily (e.g. a small rug on a wooden floor)
hope it helps :)

I prefer a speaker that is still smooth but can Rock with less than 10 watts.
I have the Lore and with a cap upgrade It will simply out preform the the AX-3 in a lot of ways.
Even the ANE is to picky about placement to get the right bass balance with low power.
The Lores just give you a hell of a ride for a $1,000 speaker.

http://www.tektondesign.com/products.html



http://www.tektondesign.com/lore.html

Or you could go Pendragons if you want to get really crazy.

I guess you meant the AZ-Three, right?
anyway, the AZ-Three with a cap ugrade (just as above, as well ;) ) is a different animal, to say the least... :)

Just watch out for foam rot on the AN AZ 2's if you are buying second hand as i have just had to have mine redone, lucky my mate works for AN so they were done right ;)

Excellent speakers by the way

not a big issue, I honestly reckon - it can be done even by you with a firm hand and mind fixed on the task :) , though a professional may do it easier for sure