Microfibre cloths and washing up liquid are the business!

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12-03-2009, 23:10
shahsy

Microfibre cloths and washing up liquid are the business!

I have often thought of buying a record cleaning machine but what has always put me off is time and space and the thought of spending 4 or 5 hundred quid on a rotating vacuum cleaner with a small hose!:doh:

I've been buying vinyl now for going on 25 years and in the past I have on occasion cleaned records with some meths and a velvet record cleaning brush.

Anyway, to get to the point!

Many record dealers I have known over the years have always prescribed lukewarm tap water, Fairy washing up liquid and a lint-free cloth.

I recently bought a few different microfibre cloths and some allergy-free washing up liquid (non-perfumed etc) and have been cleaning some old 7" singles. with astounding results (to me anyway!)

The way I have been doing this is -

1 - Have a quick listen to both sides of the record.
2 - Choose 10 records to clean.
3 - Clear all dishes from dish rack.
4 - Run the taps so that water is lukewarm.
5 - Add non-allergy washing up liquid to a new dish washing sponge and apply to both sides of the record.
6 - Using a small square of microfibre cloth, make a pad and run it clockwise around the record 4 or 5 times.
7 - Repeat on side b of the record.
8 - Place in dish rack.
9 - Repeat for 9 more records.
10 - Grab record 1 and rinse small square of microfibre cloth and run it around the record 4/5 times on both sides, rinsing the cloth between sides.
11 - Rinse the record on both sides under the running lukewarm tap and shake off excess water.
12 - Ball up microfibre cloth No.1 and wipe in a clockwise direct on each side to remove the majority of the water.
13 -Ball up microfibre cloth No.2 and repeat to remove any remaining moisture.
14 - Place back in dish rack.
15 - Repeat for remaing 9 records. This all takes about 15 minutes.
16 - Take all the records to the record deck.
17 - Place record 1 on deck and spin at 78rpm whilst holding microfibre cloth No.3 against it.
18 - Play record at 45rpm and smile to yourself at how much better it sounds!
19 - All of the above (except the listening) should take no more than 15 minutes.

I don't have any plans now for buying any exotic alcohol/distilled water/snake oil combinations and vacuum cleaners.

This works fine for me and is very quick. There does not seem to be any apparent residue that can be heard and I'm just a little sad that I've only just discovered this.

Any used records that I buy now are subject to cleaning I've described above and it's great hearing the before and after results. There is NO static build up issue with the cloths I've been using.

Be sure NOT to buy cheap microfibre cloths. Good ones will have a mix of polyester AND polyamide which a have finer denier/fibres.

Any UK guys can PM for details on washing up liquid used and cloths tried and rejected.

Give it a try, what is there to lose?

I am certainly NOT looking to buy a record cleaner gizmo or any kind of snake oil cleaning fluid after using this method. It works!

Happy cleaning :)

s
13-03-2009, 01:43
Spectral Morn

Interesting...

Hi shahsy

Welcome to SOG. I hope you don't mind but I removed your first sentence...about Mods and moving the post...hope that was okay.

Interesting process you have gone through...I am sure many will find your info helpful and worth trying.

Regards D S D L---Neil :)
13-03-2009, 10:52
symon

This is great stuff.
One immediate question I have - how do you keep the centre of the records dry? I wouldn't want to damage the paper centre disc by doing this.
13-03-2009, 14:33
Covenant

If I tried that the wife would say "while your in a cleaning mood you can do the oven".
13-03-2009, 14:56
symon

...and the cupboards, behind the computer, the floor, the windows... :lol:
13-03-2009, 17:10
Spectral Morn

Shocked...

What ? You don't keep them clean already :uhho: :lolsign:

Regards D S D L---Neil :)
13-03-2009, 19:01
Primalsea

I use a microfibre cloth too but use HMV record cleaner instead of warm tap water. I live in a hard water area and have concerns with mineral deposits being left on the record. However the microfibre cloths really do work well as they seem to get right into the grooves unlike my disco antistat cleaner which is actually rather hopeless.
13-03-2009, 22:52
Marco

Guys,

Whilst I salute Shahsy's micro-fibre cloth and washing-up liquid method as a cost-effective cleaning solution, I'm afraid there's nothing like cleaning your records on a professional record cleaner.

The main difference is that, although manual methods get the grunge off of dirty records pretty effectively, what they don't do is properly dispose of the grunge released, where most of it still sits inside the record grooves, unseen by the eye, but unfortunately seen all too easily by the stylus tracking the grooves and then heard by the listener, not always in terms of noise, but often more insidiously by degrading sound quality unconsciously.

With a vacuum-pump equipped professional cleaner, the grooves are sucked clean of any grunge - all the dirt and debris sitting inside the groove walls is effectively disposed of and the results, sonically, when listening to music afterwards is all too obvious. The VPI record cleaner I obtained recently therefore remains to date as one of the most vital components in my vinyl replay chain.

Marco.
13-03-2009, 23:16
symon

Ah yes, but as a quick fix, better than nothing approach, microfibre cloth and a cleaning thing seems a good way to go.
This has been one of my recent learning points. Until now I would never even thought about cleaning a record. I'll be off to get some microfibre cloths tomorrow.
13-03-2009, 23:17
Spectral Morn

Confession time....I don't, and never have cleaned any of my records. I do use a Decca Brush and I also have a Hunt EDA brush...and thats it. And I don't feel the need to go out and get a record cleaner. My records are for the most part fairly silent, bar clicks from visible scratches. Now maybe they could be better cleaned either via a wet manual method or a machine. I dare say there would be benefits but I just don't feel the need to subject my valuable vinyl to any of these methods. I think it may in part have to do with one of my duties 20 years ago as a Saturday boy in an audio shop I worked in. I was the record cleaner and I hated doing it. The noise the possibility of destroying a valuable record, which did happen once....I just don't like record cleaning machines.

Not everyone can afford to buy a machine to clean records, so Shahsy's method would possibly help those in that camp. However Marco is right removing residue from the grooves is where a machine does win over manual methods.

You pays your money and makes your choice. Or not like me....;)

Regards D S D L----Neil :)
13-03-2009, 23:26
symon

Thanks for the confession!;)
I was feeling a little guilty at never having thought of doing it. To be honest, I'm fairly lazy and untidy, so cleaning records sounds like a lot of effort. Wiping with a microfibre cloth will probably be as far as I get for now. Besides, I doubt I have a stylus at the moment which is clever enough to notice cleaner vinyl.
But, you know, for someone learning the ropes, the diy approach is good to know. Record cleaning machines are fairly expensive. I could buy better bits of actual music playing stuff for the same price. Maybe one day in the future I'll get one.

For now, though, I shall rest easier thanks to your confession Neil! :)

Peter
13-03-2009, 23:26
Marco

Quote:

Until now I would never even thought about cleaning a record...

LOL! Symon, what did you do before then - just play manky records? :lol:

The beauty of cleaning records on a professional machine is that, once done, one simply slips the records into anti-static bags and never has to worry about 'messing' with them again, providing care is used when handling the records. There's no faffing about with brushes, 'Zerostat' pistols, etc, to remove static, dust and crap before playing, as all the shit has been sucked from the record playing surface.

However, I fully realise that quality professional record cleaners require a significant financial investment.

Marco.
13-03-2009, 23:32
symon

Ha, yeah, I guess so. I have a Metrosound dust cleaner thingy which I run over a record before I play. Takes off some dust, I suppose.
But, then, as I said, I haven't had a reasonable player to notice the cleanliness of the vinyl. I have now (well, I have a project now :lol ) so I suppose I shall have to mend my sloppy ways.
13-03-2009, 23:36
Marco

Quote:

Confession time....I don't, and never have cleaned any of my records. I do use a Decca Brush and I also have a Hunt EDA brush...and thats it. And I don't feel the need to go out and get a record cleaner. My records are for the most part fairly silent, bar clicks from visible scratches. Now maybe they could be better cleaned either via a wet manual method or a machine. I dare say there would be benefits but I just don't feel the need to subject my valuable vinyl to any of these methods. I think it may in part have to do with one of my duties 20 years ago as a Saturday boy in an audio shop I worked in. I was the record cleaner and I hated doing it. The noise the possibility of destroying a valuable record, which did happen once....I just don't like record cleaning machines.

Not everyone can afford to buy a machine to clean records, so Shahsy's method would possibly help those in that camp. However Marco is right removing residue from the grooves is where a machine does win over manual methods.

You pays your money and makes your choice. Or not like me....

Neil, all that you're written there is valid. However, when you hear the sonic difference a professional record cleaner makes there's no going back ;)

I would go as far to say is that I would rather own a cheaper turntable and have a professional record cleaner to use with it, than a more expensive deck and no record cleaner... Trust me, the difference is *THAT* significant.

Of course, the most important thing is to have plenty of records to play in the first place! :)

Marco.
13-03-2009, 23:36
Spectral Morn

I should point out symon and Marco, that all my records are in the same condition I bought them in....mint. I handle records with great care and I don't lend them to anyone...my wife says I am a bit miserable about this. However record cleaned or not dust from the air will fall on these albums so brush cleaning is vital. You must have a very clean room Marco ? I always handle by the edges and all my album sleeves are lined with anti static inners.

So while I don't wet or machine clean I do treat my vinyl with great care and attention, and I don't contribute to them needing any cleaning. I know about mold release agents but I have heard it said that these can protect the vinyl from groove damage and wear...discuss, true or not ?

Marco....Well over a thousand....I don't know how the floor upstairs does not collapse under the weight. I store them in a room where the temp is fairly constant, and the moisture content is fairly stable too.

Regards D S D L---Neil :)
13-03-2009, 23:38
Marco

Quote:

Ha, yeah, I guess so. I have a Metrosound dust cleaner thingy which I run over a record before I play. Takes off some dust, I suppose.
But, then, as I said, I haven't had a reasonable player to notice the cleanliness of the vinyl. I have now (well, I have a project now :lol ) so I suppose I shall have to mend my sloppy ways.

LOL. No worries - one step at a time. I know how it is; it took me 24 years before I realised that I needed one :eyebrows:

Btw, is it Symon or Peter? :scratch:

Marco.
13-03-2009, 23:53
symon

It's Peter. I've been a bit slow in updating my sig to show my name and system. Symon is my internet name wherever possible. In fact, it is odd not to be called Symon on the internet!
13-03-2009, 23:59
Marco

No worries - would you like me to change your username to Peter? :)

Neil,

Quote:

I know about mold release agents but I have heard it said that these can protect the vinyl from groove damage and wear...discuss, true or not ?

Unsure. What I do know is that MRA degrades sound quality, big time. It never ceases to amaze me how much better brand new records sound once cleaned on the VPI! ;)

Marco.
14-03-2009, 00:10
symon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco

No worries - would you like me to change your username to Peter? :)

No, it's fine as it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco

It never ceases to amaze me how much better brand new records sound once cleaned on the VPI! ;)

Marco.

And it still surprises me that new vinyl is not necessarily in the best condition that it will ever be in, that a clean will make it better!:scratch:
14-03-2009, 00:23
Marco

It's to do with the removal of the mould release agent that's applied during the manufacturing process :)

Marco.
14-03-2009, 01:11
symon

Has anyone tried using PVA wood glue to clean records?
See here: http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=320.0
14-03-2009, 10:17
Spectral Morn

Brave.....Very Brave !!!!

Hi Symon

Thanks for the link....boy if I had some reservations about using record cleaning machines and cleaning fluids then using PVA glue would give me a heart attack. However in saying that if it works....ummm, it would be something you could use for very badly dirty S/H albums. I think the cost would be to prohibitive for cleaning anything but the worst. This method is both time consuming and, well if you get it wrong....you have a wrecked lp, or at the least one you have to clean several times. Its a pity in the last few posts about the self peeling PVA that they don't name that one. However is it available in the UK ?

Anyway thanks for the very interesting link. Approach this one with extreme caution..

Regards D S D L----Neil :)
14-03-2009, 10:30
Beechwoods

Folks over on AudioKarma seem to think it works. The main thing is ensuring the glue stays away from the label. I've never tried it, but it's supposed to work :)
14-03-2009, 10:40
Spectral Morn

I am a member of Audio Karma...I could ask some questions.

Nick post a link.

Regards D S D L---Neil
14-03-2009, 10:47
jandl100

Being solidly back in the 'enjoy my vinyl' camp and with all of my LPs being used and usually picked up at charity shops :) some method of cleaning is essential. Probably 60% require wet cleaning, a carbon fibre brush simply will not do!

I have a simpler method than shahsy though. Here's my edited version of his activity list ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shahsy

3 - Clear all dishes from dish rack.
4 - Run the taps so that water is lukewarm.
Rinse record on both sides to remove loose particles
5 - Add washing up liquid to a new dish washing sponge and apply to both sides of the record.
Clean fairly vigorously with a spiral motion going around the LP several time - Repeat on side b of the record. Don't worry about getting the label wet, it doesn't matter.
Rinse well
8 - Place in dish rack and allow to drain and dry naturally.
15 - Repeat for remaing 9 records. This all takes about 5-6 minutes.

Works well for me - hang on while I get my flak jacket and tin hat and prepare to repel boarders! ;)

Back in the day when LPs were my main music source I had a 'proper' Moth cleaning machine - I reckon I get 80% of the way there with my easy and cheap method - many LPs have been rescued from oblivion and are now very listenable. But yes, as Marco says, there are real benefits from going the whole hog but space considerations rule it out for me.
14-03-2009, 11:28
Beechwoods

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

I am a member of Audio Karma...I could ask some questions.

Nick post a link.

It's a sticky :) http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99837

Enjoy!
14-03-2009, 12:27
The Grand Wazoo

As the owner of a Moth RCM, I've got to agree with Marco. You should really have a machine on your shopping list if you listen to a good amount of vinyl. I've never met anyone who owns one & regrets buying it. Ask yourself how often do you see them on the used market?

The other advantage is that you can get away with buying some really grotty looking car boot & charity shop samples, that you wouldn't dream of otherwise handing over cash for - you can usually beat the price down a bit too if you can show that they look knackered!

Problems: as Neil says, the noise is pretty horrendous
....and it's fairly time consuming - every new disc I buy gets the treatment & I'm slowly working my way through from A-Z.

I use a 25:75% mixture of isoprop' alcohol:distilled water.

As for putting gloopy stuff onto my records - not a chance. I tried that years ago with some proprietary jollop - it makes them look superficially clean, but deep down in the groove, they're just full of most of the same old crap. I proved this to myself after I got my machine by cleaning the jolloped discs with it. They were transformed.

If you can buy one, you should.

Here's an idea - Maybe some of the folks on here who live nearish to each other could get together & have shares in one? Or maybe, owners of them could lend or hire theirs out to others who are thinking of making the plunge. I'd consider this.
14-03-2009, 12:39
Marco

Quote:

Here's an idea - Maybe some of the folks on here who live nearish to each other could get together & have shares in one? Or maybe, owners of them could lend or hire theirs out to others who are thinking of making the plunge. I'd consider this.

Great idea, Chris! I'd willingly clean anyone's records on the VPI for a small charge (plus P&P), and I'd include an anti-static sleeve for each record in the price. Just send them to me and I'll clean them and return them shining inside a nice new sleeve :)

If anyone's interested in this, please PM me. I may actually start a separate thread about it. Those of us with professional cleaners could get together and offer a local record cleaning service in various areas of the UK.

Marco.
14-03-2009, 19:32
Spectral Morn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beechwoods

It's a sticky :) http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99837

Enjoy!

Thanks Nick

Audiokarma is like going for a row on the Atlantic, when you are used to rowing on lake Windamere. Its so BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG !

The record cleaning idea is a good one Marco....well done that man.

Regards D S D L---Neil :)