just wondering,
has any AOS members had the chance to compare stan's new beresford to the 7510+ yet?
or is the great man himself prepared to give us his own unbiased opinion :smoking:
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just wondering,
has any AOS members had the chance to compare stan's new beresford to the 7510+ yet?
or is the great man himself prepared to give us his own unbiased opinion :smoking:
Waiting on these myself....
Stans already said they are different dacs for different markets....but I'd be most interested in DIRECT comparison of them both as Dacs only.
They ARE aimed at different markets though, so I should learn be be happy with what Ive got, but I'm always that little bit curious!
yeah, me too - can't help but be curious. I've read stan's made a few improvements. I'd seriously consider a demo if there's quite an upgrade in performance.
popped down to richer sounds the other day and tried to bag a CA Dacmagic for home demo, but the manager was having none of it :confused:
he would only promise a credit note on return, and if you buy from their website you only get 7 days to return for a refund. Not that i'm considering replacing the beresford - just curious. i can't see the CA justifying the price difference. :eyebrows:
It would be unfair of me to do a review of the TC-7520. I shall however do a write up on the ideas and execution of those that have resulted in the TC-7520. But anyone thinking of spending money on a DAC should take into consideration that the TC-7510 scored very highly against some other DACs costing a lot more. The TC-7520 tramples all over the TC-7510, and by a very wide margin. Or your money back. I can't be fairer than that.
Stan
"It would be unfair of me to do a review of the TC-7520.......the TC-7520 tramples all over the TC-7510, and by a very wide margin"
LOL. careless talk costs money, stan - the word 'trampled' has got me hooked. When will they be available on your website?
Stan,
just realized - if the 7520 has USB, they'll be no need for my 'Trends' USB convertor between my Mac and my beresford. do you think they'll be much difference in performance in this respect - going straight from Mac to 7520?
Annoyingly I recently relented and bought the new DacMagic - a combination of impatience, and annoyance that my Rotel cdp was beating my SB's dac every time.
Well, the upcoming 7520 is one of the reasons I joined AoS - so would really love to hear more from Stan about the ideas behind his latest baby...
jake,
you don't happen to be living anywhere near the London, Surrey, berkshire area do you?
i'd be interested in setting up a Dacmagic v 7520/7510 face off
Which version of the tc-7510 is being trampled on? i ve read very good reviews about the tc-7510 6/4 compared to the 6/3. You make it sound like the difference is night and day between tc-7510 6/4 and the tc-7520. Yet the price difference is expected to only be 45 uk sterling? Well all I can say is that if the tc-7520 is that good lucky immenent buyers and bravo to you Stan for pulling it off at such a price;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
I have had one of the tc-7520s since Saturday. I can't do a comparison to the tc-7510 as this is my first external DAC purchase. I can say however that I am very very happy with its sound quality - it is stunning. The headphone amp is the thing thats gobsmacked me though... If you're looking for an excellent DAC with USB input that can properly drive HD650's without external amplification (see my original post on the headphone amp part of the dac in "you like?" forum) you don't need to look any further.
I will be comparing the DAC with my colleagues £1000 DAC in the next few months. I will write up our thoughts after that. I won't pre-empt the results but I'm sure that the 7520 won't sound out of place in the comparison.....
Ade
The 6/4 shares some of the improvements that are in the TC-7520. But compared to the 6/3 and before, there is no contest.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalozois100
I am in North London and can loan a TC-7520 out to anyone trustworthy and impartial who wishes to do a face off against any other DAC at any price below £2K.oNly the Chord64 and the Zanden scare me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spur07
Stan
Hi Stan, the new improved dac sounds very tempting... will you be offering a service where 'old' models can be sent to you and brought up to spec rather than buying the new model? Do you have a rough idea of cost? cheers, Fraser
"I will be comparing the DAC with my colleagues £1000 DAC in the next few months. I will write up our thoughts after that. I won't pre-empt the results but I'm sure that the 7520 won't sound out of place in the comparison....."
Now THATS what I'm talking about! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraser.
Stan, can you give me £1000 please? :)
I can bring older models up to MK6/4 spec to a certain extent. £25.Quote:
Originally Posted by fraser.
The TC-7520 is NOT a TC-7510 with USB. So the TC-7510 can never be brought up to the same spec at any cost.
Stan
LOL gaz, i know i know...
Ok thanks for clearing that up, i'll start saving my pennies :)
I would like to read a thorough review (blind test) between the new DACmagic, TC-7510 MK6/4 and the new TC-7520 to be compared only as a pure DAC with a few (3->) different high grade systems in some well made acoustical environment. The hq HP amp is for my use only a bonus in the TC-7520, but that would not be heavily valued when making the decision (so little HP use these days here).
Is there any chance of a 7510 with a USB - is there a DIY mod or a return to Stan option to get a USB fitted ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
I could happily sacrifice a co-ax for a USB to make my 7510 even better?
Or is this just not worth the money and I just need to keep saving ...
I am working on that:).Quote:
Originally Posted by brainz2000
If I left that out, the DAC would be cheaper, and people would say that it can't be any good because it is cheaper. So it is best to put in a HP amp that is as good or better than some stand alone £200 HP amps. That way I can encourage HP amp buyers to buy my HP amp, and get a DAC and digital switching box thrown in for free ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by Osku
Stan
The economics and quality of headphone amps is the topic here
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...s/qa0807_3.htm
It is as Stan says: ~£200 (or lot more) for a headphone amp or ~£200 for a headphone amp , DAC and digital pre-amp.
A no brainer?
It is when the DAC itself is a bargain at £200. Never mind the HA.
I never really considered myself a headphone man but I have a 7520 on the way and my NAP250 is off to the Sound Org to be recapped later this week so I guess for a week or two I will be.
I have some Bose QC2s and QC3s which I bought for use on trains and planes and up in the loft I have some Beyer something or others which I haven't used for about 18 years. I wonder if they still work.
Nearly forgot. I also have some Ultimate Ears Super.Fi earbuds which are surprisingly musical with an ipod. They take a lot less room in your bag than the QCs and they don't make you look such a knob on the train. The downside is if you try to have a beer and some crisps while wearing them you hear everything as they go down!
I agree perfectly with the reasons why it is there, but as for a review I am not so interested comparing HP amp against not HP amp, so it is not apples to apples but would be more like apples to oranges. In real life I might be willing to pay extra for the HP amp, but that is not a necessity. And since I have a ES-series Sony amp in both places I might use HP it is not that important for me anyway. (I might change that opinion once I have tested TC-7520 with my MDR-SA5000 and compared with my STR-DA3300ES´s HP output).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimilia
Do I remember correctly that the TC-7520 has different chips (and now in a socket) than TC-7510? I could not find the thread that I remember reading earlier.
EDIT:
Stan: is the jitter correction you have stated to re-clock the data (already) in 7510 something that the competition does not have? Or is there difference in the behavior/quality of that correction? I am somewhat new to separate DACs and since have not seen that many statements of re-clocking capability elsewhere, am wondering if the competition is having something similar or laking it completely.
Perhaps the VALAB 2009 DAC might be also worth of testing against the TC-7520?
Fair enough, the headphone amplifier is a very important aspect of a DAC to me and therefore when I receive my 7520 I will be testing it against my existing DAC both via headphones and loudspeakers. :)
That's fair enough. Potential customers who wish to economize on the headphone may wish to consider the MF V-DAC or the CA DacMagic. If it is not a feature required then there is no need to purchase the TC-7520, not matter how much better it may or may not be than other DACs. At the end of the day perfect audio reproduction should not be THE deciding factor. Maybe the TC-7520 has too many input facilities, or an expensive USB socket that is not required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osku
STan
Its hard pleasing everyone unfortunately Stan
I get the impression people are hoping for a cheaper version of the 7520 minus the Headphone amp and USB input but offer the same sound quality on the fixed analogue outputs.
The problem is once people see a post that states the anolgue output of the 7520 is miles better than the 7510 this tends to put people off the inferior but cheaper model IMHO, if the cheaper model cannot be modded or updated to be on par with the new model might also put people off
This is no stab towards you Stan, its just the impression I'm getting reading some posts on this forum, if I am totally wrong then just ignore my prattling on:lol:
Its a shame the dac didn't have internal sockets to allow the addition of say a USB input module and headphone amp module etc which can be added as a later upgrade if you know what I mean
BTW, I personally would not touch the Dacmagic with a big stick! but thats just my opinion, I've never tried the V-dac so no idea regarding that
I'm sure Stan will know exactly what you mean, as would a few electronics bods, but remember Leo that you are in a distinct minority of audiophiles and hi-fi enthusiasts. I would class myself as a complete digital head with a basic working knowledge of electronics, but I still wouldn't dream of opening a DAC to make alterations to the circuitry. I'd say that most customers of Stan's would be the type who want excellent quality from a box that has plenty of connectivity and works well. Four inputs is plenty for most folk, heck most DACs only have one or two, and those who want USB can choose the 7520, those who don't may opt for the 7510 - either was they're on to a winner. If the desire to get the best one is there then they will choose the 7520.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
A burning question for a lot of us folks I guess, is the Dac itself of the 7520.
A lot of us would upgrade (id bet) from our Mk6/4 if it was SIGNIFICANTLY better - the "Giant Slayer" you speak of Stan.
I'd certainly upgrade if it was - I guess over time the comparisons and reviews will come out and people will form a bigger picture impression.
I TOTALLY get the different market sectors you are aiming for Stan, id be itchy to upgrade though if I knew there was a better Beresford out there - even if only for the Dac.
Heres me, watching and waiting :)
Your probably right, I was thinking similar lines to the old Naim pre amps, remove four screws, slide out sleeve and slot in cards.
As mentioned though, its hard to please everyone:)
Reviews are certainly needed !
I will be submitting my review soon, just going to let the DAC get a week's worth of running in to loosen it up a touch. ;)
Let me quote StanQuote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
"What I can say is that if you got an outstanding preamp or intend to drive a power amp directly from the DAC, then the new one would be the ideal candidate. If you need USB performance, or a headphone amp that can match an equivalent £200 headphone amp in its own right, then again the new unit would be up your street. But if none of the above applies to you, then the TC-7510 is more than adequate.
The biggest problem I found was that many preamps are inferior sounding as a preamp when compared to the new DAC. So running the DAC through a half decent preamp is not going to offer you much improvements. It is hard to explain properly, without physically trying out what I just described. It's one of those things that makes people say it is impossible, until you hear it for yourself."
From
http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=1741c
Post #10
And there is another quote I am looking for.
I've had mine running for 4 days now and it's just improving as you'd expect it to. Compared to the 7510: more refinement & more detail. The big difference I have found is the extra clarity of vocals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filterlab
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labarum
Yeah Brian your right...
But for me, if theres a BETTER StanDac out there....I'd probably upgrade, even though I dont use Headphones.
The reviews will let me know to start saving the pennies or not :)
PS LOVING my 6/4. Listening to "Duffy-Stepping Stone" earlier and it was liquid. Emotion, passion, all the musical stuff was right there.
But if it can be bettered......wow.
I've a big thing about maximising the quality of my sueezebox setup: linear PSU's, Stans Latest Dac with Maplins PSU, Belden HDTV Spec DigiCoax...that kind of thing. All things that have inproved sound quality.
Im happy with my current setup - but can it be bettered?
The other quote I had in my mind, and cannot now find was to the effect that apart from the improved headphone circuit, the improvement in general musical competence was incremental, now Stan seems to be saying more than that. Yet if the headphone amp is upgraded we must suppose the analogue section behind it has been, and that better volume pot has been used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
When I move to Cyprus I will probably need a second DAC to service a second listening station. The Squeezebox's DAC just doesn't do it for me. At that point I can justify the £200.
At the moment I have one Squeezebox in the lounge driving the Quad 405-2 without a preamp in the middle, but relying on the variable output of the Standac 6/4
If I drive the Quad power amp from the fixed output of the Standac and use the Digital Volume Control in the Squeezebox with 10 or 20% attenuation I think it is clearer, but by a very small margin. I may be right up against the resolving qualities of the Quad 405 (rebuilt) and the Quart speakers linked in my Signature.
It doesn't stop me enjoying the music!
But like you I wait for other opinions.
I've never heard any of the previous Beresford DACs so I have no point of reference from that point of view, I will be comparing it to my Apogee (which is a very established DAC that's often rated better than the Benchmark DAC 1) and also to my memories of my MF Tri-Vista DAC 21.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
"A lot of us would upgrade (id bet) from our Mk6/4 if it was SIGNIFICANTLY better"
Yeah, that was my thinking behind starting this post - plus the fact that I currently use a USB convertor between my computer and the MK 6/4, (which incidentally cost as much as the MK 6/4). The 7520 would enable me to do away with the convertor, but initially I'd be interested in comparing the performance between the two - a USB face off, as it were.
I might contact stan regarding a loan.
Its a shame there wasn't a Beta unit to be passed around say the 200+ post members, after a week you post it recorded onto the next person in line, everybody who tried it does a small write up
I'm finding it hard to fathom the change in tempo here.
A couple of weeks ago everyone was "gung ho" for the latest StanDAC. Now it's out(ish) there's a real sense of "maybe if"?
I hadn't sensed that myself to be honest, I think the 'if' questions simply encompass the specifications rather than the ability. The proof of the pudding in any hi-fi component is in the listening of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
No, I hadn't picked up on that either...
The 7520 was never an option for me till now(ish) as I started hearing it was better as a Dac than the 7510 I'm currently using.
If it is significantly better, I'll be upgrading.
I can say the 7510 Mk6/4 I'm currently using is an amazing piece of kit, which along with my squeezebox is the best hifi purchase I have made in 20 odd years of this hobby. It is SO much better than my Cambridge 640V2 CD player (which hasn't even been PLUGGED IN for Months) its not funny.
Its a double edged sword for Stan, make a better product FOR NOT MUCH MORE MONEY and the original may fall out of favour a bit.
Still, its better to have a choice at two different price points - different markets for different pockets - not a bad thing in my book. :)
A tad impractical methinks - approx 4 years Beta testing = Stan going bust and all efforts getting the unit to market become an expensive waste of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
That said, I'd love to hear what a 7520 DAC brings to the party.
Chris:)
Indeed impractical. But I am doing at least my best to be different than the other manufacturers. One of them is that all my beta testers are getting the chance of a free upgrade to the new power supply when it comes out, as long as they pay P&P and return the old one:).
I can understand that some may not quite appreciate the 50% price difference between the TC-7510 and TC-7520. But if you break it down, the TC-7520 too cheap in real terms.
1. £20 gives you a USB input that has a very low jitter, its own re-clocking circuit, and is the best sounding USB input on a DAC I have heard. I haven't had a chance to heard the DAC1 USB, so I can't comment on that one.
2. For an extra £10 you also get a headphone amp that will soon set the benchmark in terms of headphone amp output on any DAC. It is a cut down version of a headamp I hope to sell later this year at under £100. Right now that £20 HPA can hold its own against HPAs costing 10X or more.
3. £10 gives you a far more advanced output stage with opamps that can be replaced to taste if need be.
4. And for the remaining £10 in price difference you'll get a dedicated power supply that is not a wallwart.
So all in all, I have only added extra features that can compete with anything equivalent on any other DAC at a far higher price point. And I would challenge any other DAC manufacturer to add equivalent circuits at those low prices, let alone circuits that are oustanding in nature.
They say that the cost of diminishing returns were clearly demonstrated to be true when I introduced the TC-7510. Well, the TC-7520 was designed with the objective in mind that performance of each part could hold its own in terms of diminishing returns, and then add them all together in one box. That's the only way I could make sure I didn't break the rule of diminishing return:eyebrows:.
The TC-7520 is high-end in performance, not high-end in price.
Stan
Thanks for the clarification, Stan.
The analogue output stage can affect the sound considerably, so great to have that upgraded in the 7520.
Is the basic core DAC the same in both the 7510 and 7520? Have any better quality components been used in the core DAC of the 7520?
Of course this is all just a matter of detail - how it sounds is what counts.
My first impression of the 7520 after about an hours use compared to my fully run-in 7510 Mk6/4 is:
- resolves the bass better but doesn't (yet?) sound as full as my 7510
- more life-like vocals
- overall sounds more accomplished (but I am struggling to find the words to explain why)
- seems to really like AC/DC, whenever they came up on shuffle there was a serious boogie factor apparent!
I still notice that some recordings sound a lot better than others. My CDS2 seems to be able to drag a good sound from almost everything. But thats a £6k device.
One minor criticism: the blue leds are very bright. I'd quite like to turn them down.
Looking forward to more listening.
Cheers,
Martin
Well, if that's your only criticism then the DAC is boding well. I have to agree with your thoughts so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin J
I like the blue LEDs. :)