Technics SL1210mk2 - Where to start

Hi all (iv'e introduced myself in the newbie section)

Just purchased a 2nd hand SL1210mk2 deck, with the Ortofon cart and stylus.

Now I don't have a massive budget or even a medium sized budget for upgrades, so am looking at something to assist with making the sound reproduction a little better.

Nothing like a tonearm upgrade or an overhall of the direct drive mech, just what tips could I apply at a resonable price initially?

Thank you very much in advance for all of your help!

It's been 12 years away from Vinyl :(

Hi Graeme,

Isonoe feet and an Achromat would be a good start methinks.

will firm up midrange and bass and improve image focus and timing.

Steve

Hi Graeme, Welcome to the place to be in my honest opinion. I've respectfully noted your comments re spend and basically wanting to look at simple ways to improve the sound. So... i found initially that starting with the basic fundamentals did made a good difference from the off ie: proper cartridge set up, ie: ensure you have stylus weight, anti scate and all those things that cost nothing done properly. Also vta. I found the paper protrators for the Techie that you can download for free to be excellent so that the arm tracks across the record properly. Just make sure you print it properly. These cost free preliminaries gave me much improvemnt from the off. Btw which cart do you have ? If you can eventually get hold of some Isonoe feet at around £80.00, they make a subtle difference to sound by absorbing external vibration better than the stock feet and they look a whole lot better too. Also, in time try and add the KAB fluid damper - It is a must imho if you intend on keeping the stock arm as it cuts down resonance from the very light and thin tubular stock arm. I found the sound became more natural and I could here more of the subtle nuances in the recording - around £100.00 ish - a great upgrade. These, coupled with proper set up and your deck should sound very nice indeed. Not bad when you think an upgrade platter and a Mike New bearing together will snatch over £1K no problem.
Have fun, the guys here are always happy to offer up advise and share experiences - Enjoy :)

thanks guys (RobbieGong & worrasf)

worrasf - the feet have been added to my eBay wish list.

RobbieGong - do you possibly have any links I could investigate to obtain the paper protrators?

I am new to the terminology but will learn in time :)

Thanks again.

Graeme

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gmanuk101

thanks guys (RobbieGong & worrasf)

worrasf - the feet have been added to my eBay wish list.

RobbieGong - do you possibly have any links I could investigate to obtain the paper protrators?

I am new to the terminology but will learn in time :)

Thanks again.

Graeme

---

Hi Graeme,

Link attached. You'll need to login / register but no fee etc just fill in your details and then select / download Technics Protractor. Carefully use a pin to make little holes around the spindle hole markings on the paper protractor then carefully push that bit out. Be nice and neat with the pin so that you have a nice neat and accurate hole so the protrator will go over your spindle perfectly without play.
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...tractors.shtml

Do make sure that when you print it you have printed it to the correct size. You'll be able to tell as there is a line across the top somewhere on the protrator that says it should measure so many millimetres if printed correctly so look out for that. I remember when I first printed one and bein a bit lazy took it to my local hi fi dealer with the Techie. No matter how we all tried we could not get the cartridge /arm /needle to follow arc - One hour later and with us all about to give up the will to live one of the guys sussed I'd printed it to the wrong scale :doh: :lol: :rolleyes: :)

sorry I should have mentioned the cartridge I have is the

Ortofon DJ S. The ebay seller put this on for me.

However I am not going to listen to much dance music, other than Detroit Techno. My tastes range a great deal, however the main driver will be music that is not electronic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobbieGong

Hi Graeme,

Link attached. You'll need to login / register but no fee etc just fill in your details and then select / download Technics Protractor. Carefully use a pin to make little holes around the spindle hole markings on the paper protractor then carefully push that bit out. Be nice and neat with the pin so that you have a nice neat and accurate hole so the protrator will go over your spindle perfectly without play.
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...tractors.shtml

Do make sure that when you print it you have printed it to the correct size. You'll be able to tell as there is a line across the top somewhere on the protrator that says it should measure so many millimetres if printed correctly so look out for that. I remember when I first printed one and bein a bit lazy took it to my local hi fi dealer with the Techie. No matter how we all tried we could not get the cartridge /arm /needle to follow arc - One hour later and with us all about to give up the will to live one of the guys sussed I'd printed it to the wrong scale :doh: :lol: :rolleyes: :)

---

fantastic! thank you very much for this, appreciate it greatly.

No comment regarding your printout size escapade :) :doh:

Hi Graeme, This is one of the concorde cartridges isn't it. My first ever cart on my MK2 was the Concorde pro S, which I bought cause I loved da concorde look and the black with the red dot looked great on my 1210 (fickle I know lol !!), sounded nice too, but not 'audiophile'. Since getting the MK5g I've had the Ortofon 2M Black and now the flagship 2M black - a stonkingly good cart but not cheap. FYI - The protrator will not work with the Concorde carts as they screw directly into the arm and do not require a headshell. Therefore you cant and dont need to slide or move the cart in the headshell to get it to follow arc properly. Print the Protractor anyway. I would strongly recoomend you get yourself a Ortofon 2M red. They dont cost a lot (Seen these go for as low as £77.00 new) and are very highly regarded for a budget cart, probably seen as more of a 'proper' cart over the dj concorde type (dont mean to sound snobbish - honest :). You will then be able to use a headshell with the 2M red fitted and use the protractor for proper set up. ;)

A free tip - try listening with the turntable lid removed. The sound from the speakers can get picked up as vibration by the lid which can then feed the vibration back into the turntable. Also try to keep the turntable away from the speakers if at all possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gmanuk101

It's been 12 years away from Vinyl :(

---

Hi Graeme

Your in the right place here, I'm a newbie to the Techie too (tho a little further up the upgrade path), but this place is a hive of info, some good people here with a total understanding of what can be achieved from this modest deck.

Hi Graeme

If you do decide to get a new cartridge then if you get a standard Technics headshell and assuming you keep the stock Technics arm (it's not at all bad and you can always get it rewired by J7 at Audio Origami while deciding whether to get a new arm) then this is all you need to setup your cartridge properly (see piccies) - They are quite hard to come by now but you're welcome to borrow mine.

Steve

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by worrasf

Hi Graeme

If you do decide to get a new cartridge then if you get a standard Technics headshell and assuming you keep the stock Technics arm (it's not at all bad and you can always get it rewired by J7 at Audio Origami while deciding whether to get a new arm) then this is all you need to setup your cartridge properly (see piccies) - They are quite hard to come by now but you're welcome to borrow mine.

Steve

---

Yes I got the jig thing with my MK5g and did initially use it however, I found my deck sings like a songbird when setting up carefully using the protractor. I do know that the jury is out on the net re: the jig :)

As funds are tight i'd just get the best cart you can afford.
Look out for low hour 2nd hand ones.

Get rid of the feet - they're truly awful - and use sorbethane isolators instead.

At least until you get some Isonoes.

You could go with the Sorbothane feet (Foculpods, they're called) rather than Isonoes and with the money you save get an Achromat. The stock rubber mat is terrible for sound. This will give you a step-up from the stock deck and start you on your way.

You could also look at the Vantage Audio feet which are only 25 quid - I preferred them to Isonoes in my rig tbh. YMMV of course but they do work very well, and are adjustable too. With the Achromat you've got a decent jump in performance for a smidge under a ton. :)

The 1210's a very talkative bit of kit, in that each mod you can make to it, it'll be obvious as to whether it works or not.

Most of all though - have fun! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MartinT

You could go with the Sorbothane feet (Foculpods, they're called) rather than Isonoes and with the money you save get an Achromat. The stock rubber mat is terrible for sound. This will give you a step-up from the stock deck and start you on your way.

---

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Sorbothane is $hite, sorry Martin, but this stuff is evil for 1210's it'll rob the life out of your music. Again this is another I played around with and decided that Sorbothane simply does not work with a 1210, IMHO you'd be better saving your money up for something else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by REXTON

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Sorbothane is $hite, sorry Martin, but this stuff is evil for 1210's it'll rob the life out of your music. Again this is another I played around with and decided that Sorbothane simply does not work with a 1210, IMHO you'd be better saving your money up for something else.

---

Strangely, I used it under an Audiotech board (a blob in each corner) with the standard feet still on the deck, and it worked fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by REXTON

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Sorbothane is $hite, sorry Martin, but this stuff is evil for 1210's it'll rob the life out of your music. Again this is another I played around with and decided that Sorbothane simply does not work with a 1210, IMHO you'd be better saving your money up for something else.

---

I second that ! bought sorbothane feet, hated the things. Didnt sound or look good. Isonoes are great most definately - good soundin and effective eye candy basically :eyebrows:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by REXTON

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Sorbothane is $hite, sorry Martin, but this stuff is evil for 1210's it'll rob the life out of your music. Again this is another I played around with and decided that Sorbothane simply does not work with a 1210, IMHO you'd be better saving your money up for something else.

---

A slight overreaction, methinks ;)
Context is everything.
Sorbethane works great in my application - the deck is on a Target wall frame with a slate shelf.
I'm also using a cork mat, and the arm is not stock (it's a modified RB250).

What's that?
The RB250 doesn't work well on the Techie?
Utter bollocks!!!! :eyebrows:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by worrasf

Hi Graeme

If you do decide to get a new cartridge then if you get a standard Technics headshell and assuming you keep the stock Technics arm (it's not at all bad and you can always get it rewired by J7 at Audio Origami while deciding whether to get a new arm) then this is all you need to setup your cartridge properly (see piccies) - They are quite hard to come by now but you're welcome to borrow mine.

Steve

---

You can easily get the overhang tool from Kevin at KAB: http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

In reference to the stock arm, they really can be modded to sound good. Jim Howard of Applied Fidelity uses silver wire that uses a solid core teflon coated silver electrode wiring used for medical instrumentation. Its double ground, annealed, teflon coated and takes some serious skill to solder because that 32 awg conductor likes to melt right into the solder. I heard some CD's of his set up that he sent me and it sounded great. I am picking up another SL 1200 MK II tomorrow for a decent price of $225 US and I am going to mod the stock arm on this one and see how it compares to my current set up. FWIW, I like Audio Origami's prices; I wish they had a branch here in the US.

Agree re: The stock arm. The MK5g has the better wire running through the arm as standard so I can imagine that a good re-wire on the other Techies would reap great results. I've added the KAB fluid damper plus a damn good cart (2M black) I am amazed / thrilled at the delivery with the stock arm. The fact the superb fly on the wheel vta is also part of that means I've never felt the need to chop the stock arm out. I've added the Mike New bearing and Isonoes and the Techie sounds wonderful, the realism and sense of what each recording is about brings a big smile to my face. I think an upgrade platter over anything else right now would be amazing :)

You could also look at the Vantage Audio feet which are only 25 quid - I preferred them to Isonoes in my rig tbh. YMMV of course but they do work very well, and are adjustable too. With the Achromat you've got a decent jump in performance for a smidge under a ton. :)

The 1210's a very talkative bit of kit, in that each mod you can make to it, it'll be obvious as to whether it works or not.

Most of all though - have fun! :)

Any one got a link/piccies of the Vantage Audio feet?:)

Confused.

Surely a better cart will give a much bigger difference than some feet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarzan

Any one got a link/piccies of the Vantage Audio feet?:)

---

Here you go...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_7166.jpg

Very simple little things which just screw into the existing threads. They're made of natural rubber apparently, quite soft and whilst the deck can be moved side to side slightly they don't have much up and down movement. Wondering if they strike a good compromise between coupling/de-coupling. I can thump the shelf fairly hard and very little noise gets through to the speakers anyway.

a big thanks to all who replied on this post, I will surely check out all the advice given here.

Have a great holiday season!

Graeme

KAB tells why the SL1200 is the top:

http://www.kabusa.com/1200agon.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gromit

Here you go...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_7166.jpg

Very simple little things which just screw into the existing threads. They're made of natural rubber apparently, quite soft and whilst the deck can be moved side to side slightly they don't have much up and down movement. Wondering if they strike a good compromise between coupling/de-coupling. I can thump the shelf fairly hard and very little noise gets through to the speakers anyway.

---

Hi Richard

They look identical to the feet being sold by Origin Live http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/replacement-feet.htm However as the photo does not show the feel in detail, are they the same?

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/_...ampingfeet.png


Regards D S D L

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

Hi Richard

They look identical to the feet being sold by Origin Live http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/replacement-feet.htm However as the photo does not show the feel in detail, are they the same?

http://www.hi-fi-accessories-1.com/_...ampingfeet.png


Regards D S D L

---

Aah - them's the same ones Neil. Richard doesn't sell his with those little 'discs' (I presume they're designed to go under the feet?) just the feet on their own. They do work damn well though - took me a bit by surprise tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chelsea

Surely a better cart will give a much bigger difference than some feet.

---

Not really. Getting the basic turntable optimised is worth much more in sound quality.

Hi Richard,

Glad that things are progressing nicely with your Techy :)

I was just wondering in what way you are preferring what it's doing compared to the PL-71? :cool:

Marco.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MartinT

Not really. Getting the basic turntable optimised is worth much more in sound quality.

---

Surely if your on a tight budget the cart has to give more soundwise than feet.

Not really, Stuart. If the deck and arm don't form a rigid and immovable platform for the cartridge to transduce the groove into a signal, a better cartridge is only going to better reproduce the problems with feedback, lack of rigidity, rattles, standing waves etc.

Taking it to extremes: an expensive cartridge in a poor deck will sound lousy. A cheap cartridge in a truly sorted deck will give glimpses of greatness.

Sort the deck out first, then the arm and finally the cartridge.

Here you go...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_7166.jpg

Very simple little things which just screw into the existing threads. They're made of natural rubber apparently, quite soft and whilst the deck can be moved side to side slightly they don't have much up and down movement. Wondering if they strike a good compromise between coupling/de-coupling. I can thump the shelf fairly hard and very little noise gets through to the speakers anyway.


Thanks Richard, they look nice on your Techie, better than the Isonoes you say............

Are the original feet on a 1210 really that bad.
Would squash balls not sufice?

The original feet are very bad, although they look like they should work. Sorbothane feet like Foculpods are much better. Isonoes are the best. For me, at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chelsea

Are the original feet on a 1210 really that bad.
Would squash balls not sufice?

---

Those Herbie Lab's Iso Cups might work under the original feet. Have not tested it though.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/suprbl2.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jostber

Those Herbie Lab's Iso Cups might work under the original feet. Have not tested it though.

http://herbiesaudiolab.net/suprbl2.jpg

---

I doubt it - the original feet are unbelievably bad.
The Iso Cups under the deck might be good after removing the original feet and throwing them away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarzan

Thanks Richard, they look nice on your Techie, better than the Isonoes you say............

---

They certainly are in my set-up Andy, which wasn't expected. Reading this thread made me briefly re-fit the Isonoes this afternoon, just to check, and yup the VA feet are definitely better - they just seem to give the deck more life, less musical intertia.

Gives me a lot of faith in what Richard at Vantage Audio knows about what makes the Tecchy tick.

Of course I've no doubt that others will prefer what the Iso's do in their respective rigs but it's nice to there is other really good (cheaper!) stuff out there...especially for poor underpaid muso's like me. :D

Hi Marco - this 1210's really singing nicely now, and unlike before where I was always impressed at the fireworks the Tecchy could set off, it's now joining the musical dots up in a way that my previous ones never quite managed. Compared to the 71? Hard to say in many ways - I'm not 100% sure the Jico'd Shure was a good match for the Pioneer arm. It was far happier with big, chunky cartridges like 103's and SPU's and of course my beloved Decca SG. The 71 is softer (unless you fit the Decca then it gets real teeth!) more lyrical perhaps and makes more challanging music, free jazz especially, make more sense, more easily.

My 1210 isn't doing too bad a job - the bearing has helped here without a doubt. It's a much tidier-sounding deck, sounding so much larger and more expansive than it did a fortnight ago and I'm more than happy to give it house room. It's making listening to records at least as enjoyable as the Pioneer and for me, that is a small but important milestone achieved. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gromit

Aah - them's the same ones Neil. Richard doesn't sell his with those little 'discs' (I presume they're designed to go under the feet?) just the feet on their own. They do work damn well though - took me a bit by surprise tbh.

---

They do look interesting I have a set of these for playing around with but not really got round to it yet.

Yes the cork discs go under the feet.


Regards D S D L

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L

They do look interesting I have a set of these for playing around with but not really got round to it yet.

Yes the cork discs go under the feet.


Regards D S D L

---

Would be interesting to hear what the cork discs bring to the party. No doubt Richard (of VA) knows about them, would be keen to get his slant on the subject.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gromit

They certainly are in my set-up Andy, which wasn't expected. Reading this thread made me briefly re-fit the Isonoes this afternoon, just to check, and yup the VA feet are definitely better - they just seem to give the deck more life, less musical intertia.

Gives me a lot of faith in what Richard at Vantage Audio knows about what makes the Tecchy tick.

Of course I've no doubt that others will prefer what the Iso's do in their respective rigs but it's nice to there is other really good (cheaper!) stuff out there...especially for poor underpaid muso's like me. :D

Hi Marco - this 1210's really singing nicely now, and unlike before where I was always impressed at the fireworks the Tecchy could set off, it's now joining the musical dots up in a way that my previous ones never quite managed. Compared to the 71? Hard to say in many ways - I'm not 100% sure the Jico'd Shure was a good match for the Pioneer arm. It was far happier with big, chunky cartridges like 103's and SPU's and of course my beloved Decca SG. The 71 is softer (unless you fit the Decca then it gets real teeth!) more lyrical perhaps and makes more challanging music, free jazz especially, make more sense, more easily.

My 1210 isn't doing too bad a job - the bearing has helped here without a doubt. It's a much tidier-sounding deck, sounding so much larger and more expansive than it did a fortnight ago and I'm more than happy to give it house room. It's making listening to records at least as enjoyable as the Pioneer and for me, that is a small but important milestone achieved. :)

---

I had a look on the VA website and could not see the feet, how much are they

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lee Henley

I had a look on the VA website and could not see the feet, how much are they

---

If you go to the 'Technics' bit then click on 'price info' it'll open up another window with the full price list of pretty much everything they do.

They're £25 btw. :)

hi all

For a budget of around £300 MAX, what amp would people recommend I check out?

thanks

Graeme

The one in this thread - it's a bleedin' bargain!

Good grief, yes. Buy it quick!

Ditto :)

If I could get down to Tom's place I'd bite his hand off for this! :eek:

If you go to the 'Technics' bit then click on 'price info' it'll open up another window with the full price list of pretty much everything they do.

They're £25 btw. :)


£25 and better AND more musical than the Isonoes you say Richard.....:eyebrows:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarzan

£25 and better AND more musical than the Isonoes you say Richard.....:eyebrows:

---

That's a matter of discussion and I urge you to try both if you can. Certainly for me the Isonoes were a step up from Foculpods, another design of sorbothane foot for the Techie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tarzan

£25 and better AND more musical than the Isonoes you say Richard.....:eyebrows:

---

Indeed - and it wasn't what I expected either. Had a friend round with his DacMagic+ this afternoon (he's an Oboist though so clearly has no instrumental taste ;) ) and whlst he was here we both sat down and did a quick A/B with the VA feet and the Isonoes as I was after a 2nd opinion. I hadn't mentioned a word about my views on either sets of feet but we both came to the exact same conclusions - that's to say the Iso's seemed to stem musical flow compared to the VA feet, making the sound smaller and somewhat congested. Almost as though the music had a pair of hands arounds its throat. Sonically neat and tidy - yes, but ultimately rather wayward in my rig.