Dodgy SPU quality and a tale of woe with an Ortofon RS-212D...

From an earlier discussion here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/newre...reply&p=269058

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Originally Posted by MartinT

What's happened to it, Marco?

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You won't believe it, Martin - what a bloody nightmare....

What happened was that when my BRAND NEW SPU arrived the other day, I fitted it to the arm and immediately noticed that the cartridge was leaning badly to one side. Upon closer inspection, it turned out that this was because the fixed headshell's bayonet fitting was misaligned (and unfortunately there is no azimuth adjustment, to compensate, on the SPU's built-in headshell). So that of course meant that azimuth was completely out and that the cartridge was of bugger all use! :steam:

What seems to have happened was that, whoever at Ortofon had built the SPU, hadn't glued the bayonet fitting of the headshell on straight, when its position was being adjusted in the factory!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Anyway, there was a little grub screw underneath the detachable headshell section of my new Ortofon RS-212D tonearm, which Simon (the dealer I bought the tonearm from) and I presumed would be for azimuth adjustment, in that loosening it would allow the plastic housing, holding the inner contact pins, to turn slightly so that I could then gently twist the headshell until it sat straight inside the arm.

Seems sensible, right??

Problem was, that the grub screw did no such thing - what it did was proceed to loosen the inner contact pins on the tonearm, so that when I next fitted a headshell to it, the pressure applied by doing so, pushed the pins flat inside the plastic housing, resulting in the contact pins on the headshell bayonet fitting no longer making contact with the inner ones of the arm, thus resulting in a complete loss of sound!!! :steam: :steam:

There was no warning whatsoever in the supplied owner's manual that that grub screw shouldn't be touched (a printed sheet, however, had been supplied warning of other 'no go' areas of the tonearm), or indeed any indication as to its function. Therefore, what happened was hardly my fault!

So now, because neither Mark (who kindly offered to have a look at it for me), or Simon, whom I returned the arm to yesterday, could fix it, driving some 400+ miles there and back to both their addresses in the process, it had to go back to Ortofon, who will now either fix it or supply a new tonearm - and the same goes with the SPU.

All that crap because Ortofon couldn't manage to fix the headshell housing straight on a not exactly inexpensive cartridge... As you can imagine, I'm bloody livid!! But hopefully, I should have both back next week and everything will be ok :cool:

I must stress though, that Simon (from HifiSound) has been very supportive and helpful about the whole thing. He's stayed late for me on both occasions when I've been to his shop, and always, as they say, 'gone the extra mile', in terms of his customer service, so I must thank him very much him for that. It's at times like this that you *really* appreciate the help and support of a good dealer, and not having bought instead from the likes of eBay!!

But, as you can imagine, I'm less than happy with Ortofon and I'll be watching very closely how they handle this. Clearly, their standards of workmanship and quality control need some working on!!!

The net result of this of course is that my T/T is now without an arm and cartridge for the Dominic's T/T bake-off in Preston tomorrow, so I'm not sure if I will be going... :(

Marco.

Oh bad luck, Marco. That's the kind of thing that only happens very rarely but I can understand the gnashing of teeth. An £800 SPU should have been at the very least tested properly, not to mention final inspected. I can't understand how it could have shipped out with an azimuth error.

So there's no azimuth adjustment on either the headshell or arm? Strange!

Do you still have the Jelco as a backup?

Indeed. It's really rather shoddy, but we'll see if they manage to redeem themselves now by how they handle the situation.......

I've still got my old Jelco, so I'm going to see if that will still fit properly in the armboard, now that it's been drilled out to accomodate the Ortofon.

The other thing, before I do anything, as I've sold the Jelco to Bernie (Canetoad), and was due to ship the arm to him soon, I'll have to ask his permission to use the arm and if he doesn't mind waiting another couple of days now to get it...

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

The other thing, before I do anything, as I've sold the Jelco to Bernie (Canetoad), and was due to ship the arm to him soon, I'll have to ask his permission to use the arm and if he doesn't mind waiting another couple of days now to get it...

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No need now - David Brook's come to the rescue and is bringing a spare Jelco SA750 with him, together with armboard, so the show will go on!

Nice one, David!! :cool:

Marco.

You best give Dom some money for the extra electricity that will be used from your PSU, it looks like an 80's krell...:)

Hi Martin,

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Oh bad luck, Marco. That's the kind of thing that only happens very rarely but I can understand the gnashing of teeth.

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You bet! When it happened, the almighty AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!! I let out would've awoken the dead!!!!!

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An £800 SPU should have been at the very least tested properly, not to mention final inspected. I can't understand how it could have shipped out with an azimuth error.

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Indeed. It's pretty crapola, isn't it?

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So there's no azimuth adjustment on either the headshell or arm? Strange!

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Niento that I can see, amigo.

Marco.

I have to say, I think it's pretty shoddy too (unfortunately, I have heard of this issue before with SPU's).

I'm not surprised there is no azimuth adjustment though as there often isn't (there could be though if someone had bothered to design it in).
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Marco, I know it looks as though I'm all about the aesthetic but actually I consider the sound quality and design content to be paramount; but there's no reason why it shouldn't look cool too :).

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Originally Posted by YNWaN

I have to say, I think it's pretty shoddy too (unfortunately, I have heard of this issue before with SPU's).

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Really? Do tell more... Hopefully, now that this problem has been brought to their attention, and into the public domain here on AoS, they'll do something to rectify it in future!

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Marco, I know it looks as though I'm all about the aesthetic but actually I consider the sound quality and design content to be paramount; but there's no reason why it shouldn't look cool too

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Oh don't worry, mate, I got that message loud and clear ;)

But you're also a perfectionist and value quality, as I do - and I respect that :)

Marco.

P.S I will move all Ortofon-related posts to a separate thread of their own.

Bloody hell Marco, nightmare for you. What FG hard luck. :( But sure it will all work out okay for you.

John

I feel for you Marco, I thought I was the only one who gets this sort of aggravation from what should be a straightforward purchase. I would expect a £30 cartridge to be visually inspected before shipping let alone an £800 one. Amazing that even in these woeful economic times some companies are still taking their customers for granted.

Man thats frustrating
Anyway glad Dave could help

Yes indeed, as far as tomorrow's bake-off is concerned :)

Thanks guys, I'm sure that the situation will be resolved to my satisfaction. You'll certainly be reading all about it here... If Ortofon and/or Henley look after me properly and apologise, they'll get the recognition that they deserve.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Yes indeed, as far as tomorrow's bake-off is concerned :)

Thanks guys, I'm sure that the situation will be resolved to my satisfaction. You'll certainly be reading all about it here! If Ortofon and/or Henley look after me properly and apologise, they'll get the recognition that they deserve.

Marco.

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Marco, we feel for you mate. I think its not Ortofon or SPU but someone within that org not doing he/she is paid to do properly, either that or PP quality control. I've always maintained that it takes years to build up trust and a good reputation but minutes to eff up that reputation :( and sow doubt and uncertainty in the potential customers' mind?

Spent the arvo milling down the embosed lettering on my 1210 in readiness to fit MN's bearing base plate. I requested it to be taken into account but the plate just snags the right corner of the embosement.... its silly little things like this that cause customers problems but luckily I have the tools and the know how to do the job.....I'm bloody fussy and when it comes to TTs or anything else nothing but perfect will do :rolleyes:

Ron

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Originally Posted by JazzBones

Spent the arvo milling down the embosed lettering on my 1210 in readiness to fit MN's bearing base plate. I requested it to be taken into account but the plate just snags the right corner of the embosement.... its silly little things like this that cause customers problems but luckily I have the tools and the know how to do the job.....I'm bloody fussy and when it comes to TTs or anything else nothing but perfect will do :rolleyes:

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Been there, done that Ron. That little bit of raised lettering took me ages to file down because of its awkward positioning.

Good luck with the base plate!

Hi Ron,

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Marco, we feel for you mate. I think its not Ortofon or SPU but someone within that org not doing he/she is paid to do properly, either that or PP quality control. I've always maintained that it takes years to build up trust and a good reputation but minutes to eff up that reputation :( and sow doubt and uncertainty in the potential customers' mind?

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I completely agree, and through running my own business know from personal experience, from companies I've dealt with, just how much what you describe is true.

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Spent the arvo milling down the embosed lettering on my 1210 in readiness to fit MN's bearing base plate. I requested it to be taken into account but the plate just snags the right corner of the embosement.... its silly little things like this that cause customers problems but luckily I have the tools and the know how to do the job.....I'm bloody fussy and when it comes to TTs or anything else nothing but perfect will do :rolleyes:

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As Martin says, good luck with that one. You're going to have a big grin on your face when you hear the combination of that and your new MN platter! :cool:

Marco.

Oh and a word of warning to anyone using a tonearm with a detachable headshell, RS-212D or otherwise (the ones I've seen like that are all the same)....

DO NOT TOUCH THE LITTLE GRUB SCREW, JUST BEHIND THE DETACHABLE HEADSHELL FIXING, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. It NOT an azimuth adjuster !!!!!

Hopefully then the sorry situation I've experienced won't happen to you!

Marco.

Hi Marco and sorry to hear your misfortune. Fingers crossed this all ends you having a big smile on your face :).

I have to say that you are not the only one having had problems with SPU's. I bought some time ago a second hand Mono SPU. It was in mint condition and I am 100% certain that the previous owner hadn't mishandled it. When I got the cart I noticed immediately that the fixing between the cartridge wooden 'headshell' and the metal body was loose. I exhanded e-mails with the seller and we agreed that I will contact Ortofon regarding this. After a while I got a reply from Ortofon and I was told that the fixing between the wood headshellexchanged exchanged and metalbody must have become loose and this is not that uncommon. I was told to put small amounth of glue onto the joint :doh:. Well I was not prepared to do this, I bought the SPU it being in mint condition and fully working so I contacted the seller. We agreed that I will return the cart to the seller and I will get full refund.

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Originally Posted by MartinT

Been there, done that Ron. That little bit of raised lettering took me ages to file down because of its awkward positioning.

Good luck with the base plate!

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Martin, I well remember the prob you had thats why I ordered a base plate with a routed indentation to avoid this problem but mine still came with a indentation to accommodate the embossed/raised lettering but it still fowled the top of the lettering. I used a small metal grinder and then finished off with wet and dry emery paper... got a nice finished flat surface in the end. I have also drilled into the flange of the bearing itself to accommodate three upward screws thus coupling the bearing to the bearing base plate as per MN's instructions, he reckons I'm the first to do this, but thats another story for another post later :)

Ron

Marco, would it not be feasible to make a claim for all expenses experienced and compensation for breach of contract inasmuch as you bought in good faith and a supposed product expectation and that said product has failed its purpose, in other words NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE!??? I'm no lawyer but it does look as if you have a valid case :steam:

Hi Ron,

You're probably right, mate, but hopefully I'll not have to go there! :)

Marco.

Hi Juha,

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Hi Marco and sorry to hear your misfortune. Fingers crossed this all ends you having a big smile on your face :).

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Thanks, mate. Trust me, that's the *only* result I'll settle for! ;)

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I have to say that you are not the only one having had problems with SPU's.

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So it appears..... I'd be interested to hear of Mark's experiences in this area too, which he alluded to earlier, but neglected to expand on :cool:

Right, must rush - I've got a bake-off in Preston to attend. Laters!

Marco.

Well, there's nothing much to expand on, I'm just passing on second hand information. I haven't personally ever had anything to do with the Ortofon cartridges in question (they aren't my thing), but I have been told in the past about misaligned ones in the manner you have described.
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Originally Posted by JazzBones

would it not be feasible to make a claim for all expenses experienced and compensation for breach of contract

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No, it definitely would not.

No worries, Mark. I just wondered if you'd heard of anything specific :)

What this has highlighted though, is that there is obviously an inherent quality control problem, which badly needs addressed, so hopefully Ortofon will take note now that it's been brought to their attention.

Regarding the SPU, if you can get hold of (borrow from someone?) some Naim MM boards for your preamp (if that's how your system works for phono), I can let you hear the SPU in your system, via my A23 MC step-up transformer, when I bring my T/T round again.

That is once my new armboard is ready and I get my tonearm and cartridge fixed. As far as the SPU is concerned, you may be surprised at the results ;)

Marco.

I've got 322 MM boards (just got to find them - they are probably in my bits box) - I could fit them to either my pre-amp (which has two phono inputs) or my stand-alone phono-stage.
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I've done the basic armboard CAD. Unfortunately, the best potential solutions (that currently occur to me) aren't likely to be very cost effective - I will consider it some more.
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Actually, looking at it now, a cunning plan does occur to me - and it doesn't require the deck to be disassembled to fit it :).

Ha - I always enjoy cunning plans! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Wow! That's bad luck Marco!

I've not heard of an SPU headshell & mounting bayonet coming loose fault before. Hope it gets sorted quickly. I think I would be wanting a brand new SPU TBH.

Unlucky with the tonearm too mate, see you should of bought an FR ;)

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Originally Posted by alfie2902

I've not heard of an SPU headshell & mounting bayonet coming loose fault before.

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It hasn't come loose - the bayonet fitting is glued at the wrong angle.

Indeed... That was exactly it.

Instead of the connecting link on the bayonet fitting pointing, smack on, at the 12 o'clock position (as one was looking at it face-on), it had been fixed at '11.57', so consequently when the cartridge was fitted to the arm or sitting on a record, it was 'drooping' down to the left at an angle, resulting in azimuth being out by a good millimetre and a half!

I should hopefully be hearing today when I'm likely to get both back :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

I should hopefully be hearing today when I'm likely to get both back :)

Marco.

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Hope it's not too long Marco, I know what it's like to be without ones music.

Thanks, Mark. Hopefully I'll have good news soon! :)

Marco.

That totally sucks Marco, I hope Ortofon get you back on track asap.

I'm absolutely stunned the SPU was allowed to leave the factory in that condition. It's disturbing enough that sufficient care wasn't taken during the manufacturing process, however I find it totally unacceptable that the fault wasn't picked up during the QC procedure. It's such an obvious and easily identifiable fault that it raises the question as to whether this particular unit went through QC at all... :stalks:

Here's hoping Ortofon review their manufacturing and QC procedures accordingly as a matter of urgency. I'd expect a written apology at the very least if this had happened to me. :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by Marco

I should hopefully be hearing today when I'm likely to get both back :)

Marco.

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So, have you heard anything Marco?

Sounds a bit of a nightmare Marco. It's a long time since I used a turntable and I probably wouldn't know quality one if it fell out of the sky and hit me on the heid ! What I do remember from the days when the big black round disc was my music medium of choice was when I got it right , my god was it right! I hope your efforts and patience are rewarded by that rarest of events when the hairs on the back of your neck stand up and your bottom jaw hits your knees. Never had it with digital playback , maybe one day .
Brian.

Hi Mark,

Not yet, mate. As soon as I know anything, I'll report it here.

Brian, I totally agree regarding the joys of vinyl, and thanks for your kind remarks. I'll get there in the end :)

Marco.

No worries, I was just hoping you had heard some good news.

It's all a bit crap this isn't it? I'm grinding my teeth for you Marco.
You mentioned that you thought the engineering quality equalled SME's, but I don't reckon something like that would happen too often with an SME arm released out into the wild. To be fair, maybe it doesn't happen too often with Ortofon either but I need an excuse to tell a little anecdote about tonearm quality control:
Back in the 80's there were several occasions when I would take a minor detour on the way home from the Chequer Inn on Steyning High Street and, fuelled by a lively evening spent imbibing flat, warm Sussex bitter, I'd stick my arm under the locked & chained down lid of the skip which stood outside the SME factory to see if I could fish anything 'useful' out. You didn't need to speak to too many people Steyning before you came across at least one who had a tale of AR-A's meticulous expectation of perfection & I knew several people who worked at the factory who assured me that some good stuff with only minor flaws got in there. Sadly, it didn't take too long to discover that it wasn't exactly spilling over with Series V's!

Hi Chris,

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It's all a bit crap this isn't it? I'm grinding my teeth for you Marco.
You mentioned that you thought the engineering quality equalled SME's, but I don't reckon something like that would happen too often with an SME arm released out into the wild. To be fair, maybe it doesn't happen too often with Ortofon either...

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Indeed it is a bit crap, but it's simply a matter now of waiting until the necessary bits get to Denmark, and then back, fixed. The shipping process in itself is the main part of the delay.

As far as the arm was concerned, there was bugger all wrong with it, until I mistakenly (although one could argue logically) thought that a screw near to the bayonet entry for the headshell was for adjusting azimuth, in order to try and fix the wonky cartridge I had been supplied with, which of course it wasn't.

Up until then, mate, the arm was performing sublimely, and its combination with Martin's Shelter 5000 cartridge, on my T/T in his system, was unquestionably the finest I've heard from vinyl replay in the 29 years I've been into high-end audio - it was truly sensational!! :eek:

So of course I'm desperate to recreate that standard of sonic reproduction, which my new SPU (when I get my original back or replaced) will hopefully allow. It was the misaligned SPU, which should never have been allowed to leave Ortofon's factory, that was the catalyst for the nightmare I've experienced, not the RS-212D, which remains as one of the finest tonearms I've ever used or heard.

Marco.

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Originally Posted by YNWaN

It hasn't come loose - the bayonet fitting is glued at the wrong angle.

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Whoops.... that will teach me to speed read the thread at silly o'clock in the morning!

I would of expected the assembly, automated or not, to be in a jig with a good inerference fit or press fit. This SPU does seem to of missed a QC check, perhaps a friday afternoon cartridge. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds & lets hope Ortofons customer service/care is better than there QC in this instance.

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I would of expected the assembly, automated or not, to be in a jig with a good inerference fit or press fit. This SPU does seem to of missed a QC check, perhaps a friday afternoon cartridge. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds & lets hope Ortofons customer service/care is better than there QC in this instance.

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Amen to that, muchacho! :)

Marco.

im shocked at the apparently very shoddy quality control at ortofon with this SPU. one would NEVER have this Q.C issue with decca catridges. :lolsign:

they picked the wrong person to send a dodgy one to didn't they! :)

things go wrong, one must learn to accept that. :)

close the thread now as it's becoming quite boring...:ner:

it is potentially putting people off buying one too

:lolsign:

David - this is a very real case of poor product QC and Ortofon's response to Marco will be of great interest to all of us. If people are questioning Ortofon's product quality then the thread will have served its purpose.

It took Ortofon 4 attempts to get a Kontrapunkt B to me that worked properly.....the 1st 3 had suspension problems.

The fact that it has to go to Denmark is not a good sign. Henley Designs should have exchanged the cartridge without question and I can't believe repairing the arm problem is that complicated. Henley being UK importer should be able to resolve problems. After all they are known to take a big slurp on top of Ortofon prices elsewhere.

Hi Paul,

The arm I'm unsure about, although it doesn't look an easy one to fix (so my guess is that I'll end up with a new one), but as far as the cartridge is concerned, the problem is that no-one carries stock of much these days, including Henley.

So it's that and the fact that SPUs are apparently made to order, which I can confirm. I had to wait about 4 weeks for the dodgy one to arrive, which of course wouldn't have been the case had Henley carried stock, so I can't really blame them for the situation.

The fault for the cartridge debacle is entirely with Ortofon.

I've been assured by my dealer that everything will be sorted out to my satisfaction, as soon as is humanly possible, so now I'm afraid it's simply a case of waiting and being patient :)

Marco.

If the SPU's are made to order this makes matters worse. How they can cock up QC on a bespoke item is beyond belief. Looks like you may have a lengthy wait (more than a few days anyway).

Yup, and I do agree with you. Let's see, however, how they handle the situation before we make any conclusive judgements :)

Marco.

Hi Marco,

Been off-line for while, so have only just read of your news. This is an inexcusable lapse in quality control of Ortofon's flagship design. And being made to order, is all the more unacceptable.

Provision of a new sample is the very least Ortofon can do - along with an apology. Reading of other tales of lapsed QC by Ortofon is worrying.

Had you used an SME Series 2 arm, azimuth adjustments can be made at the arm. This is done by inserting a (table) knife blade into the two headshell pin-alignment slots, using the knife as a lever to rotate the bayonet socket. This can be done without touching the grub screw on the underside of the arm, however it is very stiff. Loosening, but not removing the grub screw greatly helps. The grub screw is then tightened after azimuth adjustment.

Regards

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Originally Posted by Audioman

If the SPU's are made to order this makes matters worse. How they can cock up QC on a bespoke item is beyond belief. Looks like you may have a lengthy wait (more than a few days anyway).

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As I mentioned in my previous post Paul, they shouldn't have. I have serious doubts that this unit went through QC at all because had it done so the fault would have been picked up. Considering SPU's are a quality product and made to order, those who are chosen to manufacture them should do so with a certain amount of pride. Likewise, the QC procedure allotted to this product should be absolutely stringent. I concur with what Martin has written in his post and I await Ortofon's next move with interest. Any company can make a mistake, it is the manner in which they deal with the situation subsequently that defines their reputation, and it goes without saying that they should learn from it.

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Originally Posted by Clive

It took Ortofon 4 attempts to get a Kontrapunkt B to me that worked properly.....the 1st 3 had suspension problems.

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I'm sorry to hear of your Kontrapunkt woes Clive, I'm glad it was rectified in the end. I realise four incidents of poor workmanship isn't in itself indicative of a trend, but it doesn't look good, does it?.

Sorry to read of your woes Marco. A poor excuse, but I think I saw a pic of Ortofon testing cartridges in a 3009/3012 SME, and since these use a friction azimuth adjustment, the socket may have been slightly on the pee when the SPU was set-up?

Like I said, a poor excuse but possible?????

I beggared up a micro-switch on the Micro Seiki CD player last weekend. There are six of them around the loading mechanism, some in pairs, and this switch was still being used in the classic CD-7 model in the late 90's. It's no longer available and I'm having to improvise a replacement in the hope it fits and will work the same... A tragedy that such a substantial and superb machine may have to be scrapped once the laser fails, as I don't think anyone makes replacements for the CD-M1 mech now.....

I bought a brand new 2M Blue, sounded very fuzzy indeed, obviously something amiss, sent it back got a replacement, no problem.