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You don't need a reference, you just need knowledge.
I agree there are bad direct drives, brilliant direct drives, bad belt drives and brilliant belt drives.
But please do not attribute imaginary characteristics to the SL-1200 or any deck come to that!
BTW, like your photography!! :kiss:
:bag:
Dave
I heard a KAM DDX4500 played against a Rock MkII. The Rock was fitted with my Alphason arm and an Ortofon cartridge and the KAM obliterated it. Now I am aware that this deck is only around 250 or so quid and is probably very mediocre compared to the hallowed SL1210 G5 but it was very good. In terms of looks the KAM obliterated the Rock as well. Just were does this leave things...??? I don't know. I just know that there has to be a good reason when we are constantly being told that 2k decks are worth 2k of our money. Are they...???
If a deck costs you the customer two thousand pounds then the dealer has paid around eight hundred pounds plus VAT. What true value does that put on to a 2k turntable...??? What are we actually getting for our money in real terms and are we then to believe that this deck is so truly wonderful...??? What makes a true Hi-Fi deck true Hi-Fi...??? If the sound of the Worlds supposed No1 turntable is so coloured and the engineering so limited, why is it so praised above say, a Technics SL1210 G5. I'd rather buy the Technics brand new than an LP12 secondhand and twenty years old. For me, it's a question of value. Secondly, it's a question of music.
But what does the SL-1200/1210 cost with all the modifications fitted? (I don't think my Denon is going to have cost much less when I've finished BTW).
And how do we measure 'value'? :scratch:
I would just like to state that Mike's Denon 'UFO' comes into the same category as the Techys with regards to speed stability.
Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Sony, Marantz, and a whole host of others, have all at some point made just as good (arguably even better) direct-drive T/Ts as Technics - it's just that the SL-1200/1210 is the only one currently available new in the UK, hence why it is discussed so much and also in terms of being modified.
National Panasonic (Technics) aren't the only company able to do direct-drive properly!
I just thank God that the DJs adoped it as their 'reference' T/T, otherwise in its original guise as a hi-end hi-fi turntable it would have gone the way of the Dodo years ago, just like the T/Ts of some of the manufacturers above... We slag it off for being a 'DJ deck' but forget that it was DJs who saved it (and vinyl itself)!
Marco.
I guess I'm asking; "even if the SL-1200 (or similar) comes in at £1500(ish), what else is on the market with similar or better performance for that price"?
How the hell do we put a 'value' on these sort of things? :scratch:
Mikey,
All-in-all, I reckon it's cost me around £2k to get my Techy where it is now - but so far I've not heard anything under £5k that significantly betters it in terms of the traits we've been discussing on this thread; i.e. getting 'closer to the music'.
A Brinkmann La Grange, Kuzma, SME or Platine Verdier would give it a run for its money in that area, but then one is also suitably paying for the privilege of ownership.
At the other end of things is a brand new 'fully pimped' LP12 with Keel, etc. At around £10k it is frankly obscene if sound-per-pound value is of primary importance, and unless you're a Lottery winner why shouldn't it be?
Marco.
Well, I can believe that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
But how do we put a 'value' on these things? :confused:
'One man's meat is another man's poison' and all that... I don't think there are any 'right or 'wrong' answers TBH! ;)
The Technics also benefits from being produced by a manufacturer capable of producing things in mass. The reason the Technics was so popular with djs was down to it's build and reliability - I have a few dj friends and none of them will look at anything else.
Its become more popular in the hifiworld because of forums like this proving that with some mods it's 'acceptable' to have a deck such as this. Something the printed media has refused to accept.
For £2k there are a lot of very good decks - Acoustic Solid, Roksan,Michell, NS, Clearaudio all make very good decks withing this price limit. All are primarily designed by a single person and built within a the skills avaiable. As someone mentioned the NA decks are very enjoyable to listen to but lack the build quality and finish of Michell - it's up to the person to decide on the sonic benefits and the reliability and build quality of a component.
The bare Technics decks are ok, they are nothing special, they need modifiying to fully realise their potential but then there are people doing the same to decks by Rega and Michell. Companies have being making mods to the LP12 for years and it's quite easy to purchase a 2nd hand LP12 and get third part mods which easily compete (or better) the full on brand new LP12.
The Technics has good speed stability, good reliability and thanks to the dj world, plenty of easy to get hold of 2nd hand decks. It's a good starting point to add £1k of mods and still come in around £1250 to £1500.
Personally at that price I'd still take a NAS or a Gyro which give a different presntation that I prefer over something like the Technics. As mentioned it's all down to the flavour.
There are too many variables involved to vinyl replay and too many different preferences to state a deck like the Technics has not had any involvement with condiments of some sort.
Persoanlly I like Michell decks because I can appreciate the design and build of a person and see the engineering quality, rather than owning something produced to fit a purpose and then having 3rd party mods to bring it up to an acceptable level. That's simply down to personal taste.
Hi Griffo,
Good post and nicely balanced. I completely agree :)
However, just one small thing, being such an annoying pedant :eyebrows::
How would you know unless you've tasted the 'flavour' of a fully modified one? Am I correct in assuming that you haven't yet had that privilege? ;)Quote:
Personally at that price I'd still take a NAS or a Gyro which give a different presntation that I prefer over something like the Technics. As mentioned it's all down to the flavour.
If your only basis from which to judge is a stock model then that's like saying you know what spaghetti tastes like because you've had Heinz! Sorry, I'm just lovin' these food analogies :lol:
Marco.