Shuggie's SL-1210 Blog Revived

This is where Linn should have had the edge, only they decided to stick with a "blue-printed" TD150 for getting on for forty years..

In the absolute sense, it's how close the turntable system gets to the master source (assuming it's been done with no messing, as some are) and in Linn's case. the Blue Nile 1/2" 30IPS masters they have/had with no Dolby as I remember, sounded absolutely devastatingly good..

What I'm trying to say is that with the SL1210, one kind of arm will get the "system" closer to the source quality and so will a particular power supply designed to work with this motor arrangement, minimising the compromises. If a Rega arm sounds one way and a Jelco/SME sounds a different way, which is closer to what it ought to be? If you don't really know and rely purely on guesswork and opinion, the subjective disasters which are our ears with shedloads of "error correction" introduced by our minds' preferences will rule the day and we'll be no further forward in actually making the deck "better" i.e. as close to the source/cutting session as the vinyl disc will let us get..

It is interesting though, how careful engineering (in the case of a record player) and good knowledge of what's going on seems to get a good subjective quality as well.

If the bake-off is going to be in Farnborough (which is close to me), I'd love to come. Who is running it and what is the policy re guests?

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Originally Posted by Dave Cawley

Hi Shuggie

It's perhaps a bit naive to think that any component "should and can work well in any application" if this were true none of us would be here now! An open mind is what is needed. Technology is different and there isn't necessarily a "best" one for all things.

I would not criticise Paul's PSU here, but I could so easily if I wanted to. So the veiled criticism of mine for using a 3 terminal regulator isn't really on. Technical fights will do this forum no good at all!

So lets live and let live? Listen to the music............

Regards

Dave

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I'm sorry if my posts came across as criticising your PSU, which is clearly a significant upgrade option for the Technics - it's just that to my ears, Paul Hynes's is better and I shall probably be looking for a new home for the Time Step shortly. Similarly, remarks about 3 terminal regulators are not in any way intended as a snide reference to your product, just a general reflection on the limitations of many such devices, eg bandwidth limitation, RF rejection, transient response. As you say, let's listen to the music.

And yes, you would be welcome to the bake-off in whatever guise you choose.

On the subject of the bake-off, I have to get permission because it's within a military establishment in the Farnborough area. For that reason, it cannot be an open house affair - I would need to limit numbers (eg no more than 12) and also know exactly who is coming in advance. Those criteria aside, anyone can ask to come.

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Originally Posted by Marco

How many different T/Ts will be there - oh, and where's Farnborough?

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I have received indications that a brace of PL-71s may be coming, also my two decks and hopefully a couple of really good belt drives to balance the overall outlook. I know someone who has an Audio Note TT3, which would be a good one to throw into the ring if he was willing to haul it over. Clearly, some might be offended by my digital amplification, so I hope to have some alternatives on hand as well. Farnborough is a long, long way from North Wales, being situated deep in the heart of the Sarf of England, where everything costs a fortune:(

Shuggie

Saying "eg bandwidth limitation, RF rejection, transient response." is criticism and simply not warranted or even true. Now if this continues I'll spill the beans on the "other" PSU, do we want a war? no of course not, but you won't let it go..................

Dave

Hi Dave

I love what the timestep has done for my 1210 , so i can i just BIG up mr Dave cawley well done old chap .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Cawley

Shuggie

Saying "eg bandwidth limitation, RF rejection, transient response." is criticism and simply not warranted or even true. Now if this continues I'll spill the beans on the "other" PSU, do we want a war? no of course not, but you won't let it go..................

Dave

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No, of course I do not want a 'war'. Perhaps naively I thought that a general discussion on the merits of two particular products was possible on this forum; however I seem to have touched a nerve, without intending any offence. It would be wholly wrong and unfair to start throwing allegations either way, so I shall retire now from this discussion.

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Perhaps naively I thought that a general discussion on the merits of two particular products was possible on this forum...

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Guys,

I'd like to think that this was very much possible here.

Shuggs, you and I have had quite seriously different experiences with the Techy, with both of us arguing robustly to defend our point of view, but it's never turned into a 'war'. As far as I'm concerned, both of us have shown respect for the other's valid experiences. That is precisely what this forum is about and attempts to facilitate.

All this is subjective.

However, the reason why Dave's a bit pissed off is because you're attempting to use objective data to bolster your subjective viewpoint by suggesting that, technically, the design of the Hynes PSU is somehow 'superior' to that of the Time Step - that, Shuggs, is a whole different ball game. You are putting Dave in a very difficult position.

In effect, you've taken your argument out of the subjective arena, where we're all qualified to comment, and where no-one is 'right' or 'wrong', into an arena that is based largely around fact supported by measurements. Therefore it's only natural that Dave will forcefully defend his design to the death, as I'm sure Paul would equally, were he here. The only genuine fact in terms of this argument is that both designs will work superbly well in different applications.

If you want to offer the view that in your opinion, and in your system, the Hynes PSU is superior to the Time Step (which is absolutely fine), then unless you're qualified to do otherwise, your argument must be based solely from a subjective viewpoint. Leave debates on technicalities to others who are better qualified.

Do you see what I'm saying? :)

Marco.

:popcorn:

Amazes me reading this:scratch:

In what way, Leo? :)

Marco.