you also require to have your name posted in the box provided..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chronicals
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you also require to have your name posted in the box provided..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chronicals
after looking at the base of the spring holder i need help with a small but significant cheap upgrade,, i need to know the inner size of that ,, where the suspension adjuster goes through,, the one i have is 17.96 ,, to 17,97 ,, in diameter ,,
the base of the spring holder hole only ,,
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The design uses the existing Michell Suspension pylons with a quick but cheap way to help stop wow,
pete
and you will only need 2 cost with post off eBay will be about £25 ,., so you could say these are pete's suspension supports to go with the rest of the cheap upgrades,, they will be made to order and shipped when ready ,, no o-rings attached just the small delrin bush ,, which any one can make,,
pete
The threads on a Michell deck are as follows,, the m6 for the stub adjuster , the half inch bsf for the feet ,, the bug bear is the adjuster is a M10 but which one??? there are 3 ,, M10 x1 M10 x 1,25 M10x.5 ,lucky i phoned Michell to find out M10 x 1
The threads on the bearing , to stop you damaging the thread on the top spindle it is a 3/8 BSF,,you would need 2 half nuts to remove the spindle,, please do not use a pair of mole grips,, The top thread on the Orb is a multi start thread M6 ,, ( this may be incorrect as it is very hard to check with out the correct tools) ,
the thread that holds the arm board is M5 ,,
there is one more on the old suspension it is 3/8 bscy,,
how the castle nut came about ,, on here ,,, no were else,, or the base,, they were done after trying to avoid the hooks,, holes, etc ,, i was asked could i not make the pylons( a design principle word ) accepted for use by every one, in the world,,
after several hours i sat down with a friend and we went through how to avoid the holes,, etc and the suggestion of the slots were born after some large ciders and dodging my mates tractor ,,
the problem was the cost ,, how to do the slots,, i asked several companies, to do them but the price scared the skin off my wallet,, so i bought a bench drill and a cheap compound Chinese table,, now how would you do the slots that you needed .buy an expensive dividing head ,, or do a quick and cost effective way of doing the slots, which i did ,, using a tooling Pin the blank was loaded and a printed version was used as the template ,,
Follow the template and use a end mill to do the slots all were done like this until i could not longer do them ,, the rest have been done by the engineering company and audio company that i trust to do a very good job,,
The pete's performance pylon kit was born, with bearings off eBay ( 4,50 each ) sorbothane used on some parts that is expensive ,, the bearing bush that is about £2 ,,
all made the kit ,, which is only available through Truepointaudio,, or Truepoint precision engineers,, the design has again changed today with the addition of a flange off one of the members who i asked to look at this , with clear eyes and head, to be able to produce the kit with a std size, after the last set went to the UAE ,, the smallest ever ,, there was a concern that the base would pull threw the hole if they get smaller ,,,Michell has the wright to change there design on the deck and have done,,
i have had to do the same to the bases,, due to Michell design changes,,
There is another design being used by 2 members and my self ,, on test ,, for the future ,, the super base and nut are not quite there ,, and will not be sold for months to come,,
in the meantime there is a STD version no measurement needed will give about 85% of the custom ones, price is set by true point on them, which will NOT have the bearings ,, extra o-rings,,etc ,, a quality product , the main difference will be the fit will be a little bit looser than the custom ones which will have all the parts needed ,, that all the reviews have been raving about ,,and will not reduce the wow as much ,,
i don't own the name it was given to them by the users,, i did not set the price it is Truepoint and he is happy at the margin ,, being machine shop and retailer ,, with help from the forum users this product has changed for the better, i thank the, first testers of the red o-rings,, and testers of the first slotted version , alot of other helpers all have benefited on the price and the hope they continue to help ,, with ways to improve them ,,
i thank the designer and RR engineer for the latest fag packet drawing ,that is being built ,, as the std version,, the help all from AOS forum users,, ,, and even when it was not thought of as help From THE Chornicles who asked if i had the IP ,, well at the time i did not but after him having a go i paid the £60 and got the certificate so no one can copy the slots,, or the design unless they have helped on this forum so i thank him for that ,,,, Ynxx helped in one way ,, asking about the nut which forced me to look at redesigning the nut ,, once that was done , it was full steam a head,, so i thank him for that ,,
the above small spring stop you can get made,, on eBay should be no more than the £25 ,, the diameter should be machined to the same hole diameter it goes into the hole being 10mm , the flange 2 mm thick , the length of the inner bush needs to cover 2 coils in the spring ,,
this forces the spring to be straight up and not lean to one side,, the only draw back is you have to move the motor ,,
atb pete
Pete’s Lattice Truss Suspension upgrade for a JA Mitchell turntable.( mikes new name for these,,) but mine is pete's performance pylons, which use a lattice truss design system
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Michell power supply internal pictures one NC never connected and one the standard with all the smoothing capacitors ,, please don't ask me how they work i do not know,, these are off my Orca Nc,, and the Delphini dual mono 4box,, phono stage,, they were sold as the large power supplies, with the michell /trichord kit ,, Trichord Research who i am grateful too for upgrading the 2 power supplies to NC for use on the Phono stage ,,
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orca pre amp internals ,
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delphini phono pre amp ,, internal dual mono 4 box
spoken to jonathan nye they went back to the steel ball,, as it is their design and can do what they want,, i respect that ,, every part of the deck is there design ,, each part is assembled with care and then shipped , the support has been great ,, the help has been the same,, i hope it will continue,,
The use of the J A Michell name and their names for the decks are prohibited,, they own the Names For their decks,, it must be made clear that the Pete's Performance Pylons are made BY Truepoint Engineering and audio as an after market upgrade intended for use on J A MICHELL Suspended Turntables,, J A MICHELL DO NOT MAKE THEM have had no input to complete the design just to confirm the thread was a M10 x1
atb
pete
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ATB
pete
pete's performance pylons use a Lattice Truss Suspension System is now available made By True point engineering and audio,, as an after market upgrade for JA Mitchell ORB And Giro turntables. A truss is a structure that takes advantage of the inherent stability and weight distribution of a triangle. In my LTSS, o-rings are employed to create just such a suspension, giving the system substantially lateral as well as vertical stability, while allowing for perfect balance alignment. Ever since the first truss structures were employed in Ancient Egypt and across the entire Roman Empire, this structure has become integral to modern architecture. We have proudly copied a proven structure design to improve the performance of the JA Michell ORB and Giro ,turntable's as an aftermarket modification by Truepoint Engineering and Audio
atb
peter
please note these are shipped with NBR o-rings, you can upgrade them if you want to ,, O-rings come in different compounds different strengths,, the size is 28.5 x 2mm for the gyro,se odyssey ,, 70 duro ,,,
the orb i put thicker o rings on 29.5 x 2.5 or 30x 2.5,, to allow for the weight ,, they are shipped with the std version to help keep the cost down ,, o rings do perish over time and will need to be changed,, when needed,, if you need more just PM me they will only be the NBR ones your receive for the actual cost ,, no more added the springs on the gyro and orb need to be changed when a service is done,,
atb
pete
Great stuff Peter...a wonderful design which works so so well....the o-rings you sent me are perfect and no problem if they do need to be changed at some point...but I envisage good longevity...and the cost to replace them should that time come will only be coppers anyway...atb Peter...Al..
Pete’s performance Pylons with Lattice Truss Suspension System a quality product available at Truepoint audio ,Truepoint precision engineers,, price starts from £130 to £200 custom,,full kits,, with all the parts you need to bring the best out of your J A Michell ORB and GIRO Turntable the custom kit below,, with all the part needed, the std version will not have the extra parts, just the suspension parts and o-rings,,
cost of the custom kit £200 ,, cost of Standard £130,, no bearings or pads or extra o-rings in the std set ,,
made by a quality engineering precision company ,,, In the UK ,,
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Orbe SE-R ,, spot the upgrade,,
The use of the J A Michell name and their names for the decks are prohibited,, they own the Names For their decks,, it must be made clear that the Pete's Performance Pylons are made BY Truepoint Engineering and audio as an after market upgrade intended for use on J A MICHELL Suspended Turntables,, J A MICHELL DO NOT MAKE THEM have had no input to complete the design just to confirm the thread was a M10 x1
the reason for the above was i did not want to upset J A MICHELL , who asked that i made it clear they have nothing to do with the aftermarket suspension ,, which i have done after asking for their guidance,, the name's of the turntable they own ,, and are very protective on how they are used,, as i will need to buy products off them in the future,,,
https://3mjj4q.db.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
Gyro Fitted with Pete's suspension , a fine Peter Riggle woody arm , From Oregon USA,
https://32jj4q.db.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
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pete
The price , the standard version is £130 with out extra o-rings , Bearing's and ptfe washers, sorbothane pads,, etc , and will only be in a one size fits all,,
with the custom made ones having the full kit above,, also made to measure , parts,, with the need to measure the holes,,,£200
pete's performance pylons made for use on the Michell Gyrodec and Orbedec by Truepoint engineering as a aftermarket upgrade to replace the oem springs,,
pete
all prices are plus post ,, which is looked at day by day ,, we post all around the world,,
Picking up on what Pete has mentioned regarding the ‘O’ Rings, I raised this topic with him as a concern for users in the medium/longer term of ownership. What users need to be aware of is the Rings are being deployed to perform a function they were not designed for, the Rings typically are a seal for fluid and air, and when installed sit in a groove to prevent the Ring from moving, but more importantly to control the deformation of the Ring cross section to ensure the Ring ‘seals’ over a reasonable length of time.
Stating the obvious, all Rings will fail at some point; however, users should understand the failure mode process to avoid potential damage to their turntable.
All Rings degrade from day 1 of usage, what drives the degradation is the environment they are working in i.e. highly corrosive fluid, temperature, etc. Within a relatively short space of time, the Rings will ‘set’ but still function (seal) which is why the groove housing the Ring is so important.
The Pylon Rings will also ‘set’ but will still function, however, the next stage of Ring degradation is to go brittle/hard and then snap, and that is the concern I have, how long will it be before the Rings reach the point when failure is imminent?
I notice in some of the earlier posts that some owners preferred to leave the suspension covers off as they liked the ‘industrial’ element of the design, personally, I would encourage owners to leave the covers on, the reason being dust, and UV will accelerate Ring degradation.
I am not criticising Pete’s design (I purchased a set for myself) but merely wish to make owners aware that maintenance/servicing is required on a regular basis to prevent a disaster. I would suggest that every 3 months (minimum) compliance of the Rings are checked, if they have gone hard, replacement of all the Rings should be done ASAP, as the rotational torque (wow and flutter) coupled with the mass of the sub-chassis will likely snap the Rings in the horizontal plane!!!
I have suggested to Pete that it may be worth Blue Point conducting some trials with higher spec Rings to minimise the risk of a failure, IMHO, the increased costs of higher specification Rings would be a price worth paying, aerospace quality Rings is what I would be considering as an alternative.
Finally, Pete’s design is not flawed, SME have exactly the same problem with their turntables, which is probably why they use a very expensive Ring material for their ‘pylon’ which I believe is reinforced through the centre of the Ring with fibre.
I hope this helps?
A good post Steve...I have been testing these pylons for a long time now, watching in particular the o-rings with vigilance, as this is the only, albeit a very small one, weak point, where the Pylons are concerned. The rings are holding very well, retaining their elasticity. Initially over the first few weeks, I had to adjust them as the chassis did sink a little due to a small amount of stretching, as the o-rings settled, but beyond this point there hasn't been any problems. I will of course keep my eye on them for the inevitable, which you have mentioned. There are 6 o-rings per pylon however and find it extremely unlikely, that all six are going to fail at once, which could be considered an early warning system. I like the idea of the o-rings with the inner core being fibre, stating the obvious, They are the safety net so to speak, in the event of the rubber failing..Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Allen
HI all as I said I had to draw a line on the o-rings due to cost I use NBR , it was to make them accessible to users where the O-rings can be cheap enough to replace,, SME are made in house ,the cost of which is between £8 -9 ,when I looked the other day ,, Sme using a damper,,, I do not no anything else, only what I have read on the Internet ,I have never seen how they are attached, or want to take it any further ,, it is a turntable I just have to dream about ,,
The 6 O rings came about after using 3 , then 4 and then 6 , the amount is limited by the size of the Nut,, Users wanting to put the cover back onto them,, all have a bearing on how many can be used ,slots or hole's you would need to make the top nut bigger , but then you are limited to the way the base fits ,, the 6 making them stable and if one or 2 break nothing will happen ,
i did try thicker o-rings but the deck was very solid also if they are thicker than 3 mm the base may be come unstable, and the same aging process, Michell Recommend the springs be changed on a service ,
I will try and find the cost effective way to upgrade the o-rings with a fiber core, some things you just cannot get in the UK ,, if you know of a source that I can buy them from at a reasonable price , please let me know,,
I did try silicone o-rings but the stretch was too great , and they snap easy , one thing you could try is to place a sorbothane washer were the felt one sits, this would take a bit of pressure as well as any stray frequencies /noise off the bottom of the adjuster ,
possibly change to VITON o rings, but will double check the cost , in the morning , I have left the choice upto the user ,due to the cost involved, and availability in the country of use
NBR It provides a good balance of desirable working properties including low compression set, high tensile strength, and high abrasion resistance.Key Use(s):
Oil resistant applications of all types Low temperature military uses. Off-road equipment. Automotive, marine, aircraft fuel systems. Can be compounded for FDA applications.
But every thing deteriorates over time regardless of what it is made off , even springs will bend out of spec , the o-rings are just a service item the same as the oil and the springs,
Thank you Steve and Alan ,
all the very best pete
If the O-rings are neoprene they will degrade - if left in the light they will degrade quickly and become brittle and perish (this could take weeks to a few months), if in the dark it will take more time. If the rings are made from silicone they will largely avoid this problem but will have entirely different durometric qualities.
I made neoprene 'O' ring suspension for one of my decks years ago. They actually lasted a year or two. Cheap and easy to replace though.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
The o-rings are NBR , Acrylonitrile-butadiene rubber (nitrile) but any help in this is always welcome, which will help other users,
Could be. It was over twenty years ago and I can't recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwernaffield
there are several designs out there All use different ways, Of getting the deck to work , the Spring stopper leaves the spring and base in place, one which is a very simple way of stopping the chassis from moving ,,,
the design I have done stops the twist off the chassis , one which I don't understand how this affects the sound in the first place,,, other than the reduction in wow and flutter , the deck now having a sold lateral point , I assume to leave the belt tight ,, out of all of this the o-rings have been the least problem ,
with the base and the holes sizes being different sizes,, with the cavite the O rings are a service part , will need changing , no one has forced any one to try or buy them,,, they are just in my opinion better than the oem springs,, and after 3 years of using
them I am happy,, to say that , not everything I have done has been placed on cheap up grades for the michell gyro ,,,thank you for the help and input it is always welcomed,
pete
That's it exactly Peter...I believe it has already been a well established fact, that the o-rings are service items and at some point...the o-rings will need replaced...of course they will. all materials degrade over time, especially if they are carrying any sort of weight or are under some sort of stress...I haven't changed the o-rings on my deck as yet and don't expect to, for quite some time and the cost of replacements is minimal. A nice new, fresh set of rings, a few small adjustments and Bob's your uncle...I don't see any problem..the huge improvements to my deck outweigh the little cost of a new set of o-rings...As for them failing, there is six on each pylon and again I will point out, what are the chances of six o-rings per pylon, all failing together....next to nil...I've tried all kinds of materials for the o-rings, even trying our lasses hair bobbles..the NBR are by far the best option, for the stability, the damping factors and the shock absorbig effect...OK NBR rings with the fibre cor, is an interesting concept, but the cost is too high
Alan,
I totally agree with your comments, especially the fact that the NBR Rings are not going to fail anytime soon, and Yes, replacement is cheap and simple, my main concern, was that some owners may not appreciate there is a maintenance regime to be carried out on a reasonably regular basis, to ensure the worst case scenario does not occur.
Whilst it is highly unlikely all 6 Rings will fail at the same time, if one should fail, the remaining Rings will fail sequentially very quickly, due to the stress loads being transferred, hence my comment about replacement of the entire sets. As you quite rightly mention the price of the Rings is very low, and is not an issue, for me it is about being vigilant.
Interesting that you have used Rings of different materials, I would imagine that you would get slightly different sonic results, that’s one of the things I like about Pete’s design, is that if you were so inclined, you could introduce tweaks at very low risks/costs i.e. different materials, different lengths, and cross section, all of which would alter the sonic characteristics to an owners preference.
I had a browse through numerous Ring manufacturers yesterday, and as you are probably aware, there are many suppliers out there (particularly in the USA) who have all manner of ‘O’ Rings with good well documented supporting information to assist making a selection, at the end of the day though, you pay your money and make your choice, I do feel it would enhance the design pedigree, if Pete/Blue Point did some trials with different Rings to understand the sonic benefits, and then offer the Rings as an up-grade path/option to potential customers. Upgrade options is good for business!!!
hi Steve I got as far as I could afford to do the o-rings, with viton , NBR , Silicone ,, the silicone work well , but when they stretch any hint of a cut they just snap , the viton were just too expensive, the NBR just seem to fit the bill at this moment ,
how ever I have spoken to True Point , about them and have a meeting tomorrow,, with him ,,as they are manufactures for different industries including industry ,
as for the sonic results the NBR are the best out of the 3 compounds I used, also not as bouncy as the silicone, which are more like an elastic band,, the decision was to use the NBR and in the Future research they may be changed, or offered as an upgrade,,
but the words value for money still has to count ,, some people require a discount , but as they are down to the very last penny now, with no return to keep people happy , I just cannot see any one paying £180 -£200 just for o-rings, it would make the product not viable,,, total cost of £400 for the set mostly of O rings,,
the best of both cannot be done,, with out an effect on price, as this is called cheap upgrades ( affordable upgrades ) for michell gyro,,
I am going to look into getting a purpose built o-ring , today ,,,
depending on the cost ,, again, the alternative to this suspension that I do is the spring stopper , but even that cannot be made to one size fits all ,, due to the differing sizes of the holes,, you are then back to the competitors who either use o-rings or string,,ALL will do exactly the same in time,,,,
SME I cannot comment on them as I have never owned or heard a SME table to comment,, I do not no their time frame to change the o-rings they manufacture,,, the cost of which is expensive to me,,
The cost of the whole Pete's Pylons is less than the cost SME O-rings,, in total ,
the o-ring being easily obtainable any where in the world,,,, no need for a main dealer ,, as their is not one,, just a manufacturer and retailer,,, and eBay ,, There is no Foo with the pylons they do what they do,, replace the OEM springs with an after market product that no one has to buy ,, or is forced to buy ,In my opinion ,, they are far better than the OEM springs ,, that is all,, so far the opinions are the same around the world , from New Zealand to Canada and USA ,, all are happy , with only one set returned from England with the comment they don't make the speakers disappear ,,,they were scrapped due to the custom size a rework is impossible,, and the chance of getting an other chassis the same size is impossible to guess,,
ATB
Pete
Hi Pete,
Totally agree with your logic and ethics about ‘value for money’ and awareness of supply versus demand, what will the customer pay!!!
I don’t think for 1 minute there is any doubt about the pylons ‘value for money’ – period.
You mention VITON ‘O’ Rings, I was looking at those myself the other day, hence I am somewhat confused with your pricing structure, as the VITON Rings are (as expected) more expensive then NBR but £200 more, surely some mistake. Anyway, I had a look just now on the Net at a company called Eastern Seals; they are a UK based supplier their address is easternseals.co.uk, I notice they were selling genuine Du-Pont VITON V75 Rings (27,6mm x 2,4mm) for £0.2068 for batches <100. Therefore 18 x £0.2068 = £3.7224, which is a far cry from the >£200 you mentioned, obviously with larger batch orders the price reduces.
I just wonder if perhaps you mis-interpreted the prices being quoted.
They do sell some very expensive Rings at approx £8 each, but they are for encapsulated Rings which are not suitable anyway.
I hope this helps?
Very best regards,
Steve
yes I talked to Eastern seals, they have said the NBR will be fine but if they are in direct sunlight UV would play apart and to use EDPM which I have just ordered off them,, I also am aware of the problems of supply for different O rings, , the £200 O rings from SME ,, I am not sure how many they use is it around 8 per tower at £8 -£9 each ,, unless I have misread the advert I just never followed that up ,,that is were the £200 came from not to mislead any one,
https://www.analogueseduction.net/sm...sion-band.html
the sme 20/2 taking 32 rings in 4 towers,
The Viton ones would not be suitable due to the stretch needed,, , ,, if the answer was simple every one would be doing them , with the design of the Michell having so many different size holes,,, with out a very costly solution one that would need Einstein to install them,,, they are what they are just a spring replacement , one which I will always help with, in my opinion are far better than the springs, , the O rings have been tested over 3 years, if problems have been brought to my attention I will always look again
but as I am not selling them they are bought through True Point engineering and true point audio, I have talked to them and will be calling in the morning as well,, also if you would like Steve I will send you some EDPM ones as soon as they are available , I have just ordered them off Eastern but have to wait for the pro former to arrive,,and then pay an wait again ,
ATB
pete
Hi Pete,
The Rings made of EDPM material appears to be the way forward. Reading the specs from the Eastern Seals website, the Rings tick the right boxes in terms of function, i.e. resistance to UV, tear/stretch resistance, thus IMHO would be better suited to the Pylons design than NBR.
I would be interested in a set of these Rings; however, I would prefer the next size up to the 28,50mm you currently supply.
The reason being is for my deck the Nuts have bottomed out on the Adjuster Thread, so I cannot lower the sub-chassis any further, fortunately, I don’t need to go any lower, but I would prefer the Nut to be positioned in the middle of the thread length rather than the bottom.
No one else has mentioned this on the forum, so I am assuming that the issue is unique to my deck. My installation has the drive belt at 90 degrees to both the motor and platter spindles, so I am satisfied there is nothing wrong with my set-up.
The problem may be due to the fact that I previously had the solid imperial Adjuster, which has been replaced with the 2 piece Adjuster which you (Michell) supplied with your Pylons kit. It might also be due to my deck being an Export model; it may have slightly different depth of holes, whatever, the problem is not unsurmountable, and should be easily resolved with slightly larger (longer) Rings.
Cheers,
Steve
Yeah Steve...I don't think there are two decks the same made by Michell. The o-ring length issue, was disscused at some point and again, it was a case of finding a happy medium for the Gyro and the Orbe....This issue was well tested by the owners of the Gyros and the Orbes before the o-ring length was settled upon. A different thickness o-ring was supplied with the Orbe kit, because of the weight difference in the platter, but that strange law, the law of sod, there is going to be a one off, where something else will be required to suit said one off..Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Allen
Hi Alan,
Thanks for your reply.
I appreciate it has been a nightmare for you guys developing the pylon design, a constant battle with Michell’s lack of good quality control management. I clearly have the deck with the relationship of the thread to the sub-chassis being the issue, rather than the sizes of the holes which was the lion’s share of Pete’s problems, as you mention, there’s always one!!!
Cheers,
Steve
I have a Mk1 SME Model 20 with all the original O rings, never replaced and all functioning as should be. No sagging etc, TT stays level when set up.
the system SME use is different ,,the pete's pylons which do not have the weight to contend with ,,Like the sme does,, I have found a set up manual on the Web ,do SME have an internal damper to help with the weight,,,
where the Michell does not need that ,, having a cast lightweight chassis,, in the past 2 years of using this design I have not had a problem ,,,I have always asked if any one has,,with always being told everything is fine,, the O rings stretches and then settles down after a week,or 2 ,, if I send them out with too longer O Ring they would bottom out ,with most users just placing the Motor pod on a piece of rubber or sorbothane,, thank you for helping in this debate ,, it is the only way forward , ,
ATB pete
Just playing a few albums tonight as the wife is away this weekend and eyeballed the pylons and the nut is around 3/4 down on the thread so all good.
Also checked the rings and none are showing any signs of getting more brittle (also checked the level and not budged).
My TT is in a back room with no sunlight which probably helps :)
Still think they are the best upgrade to the Orbe or Gyro.
Well done Peter
The Pete's pylons, I see as a long term upgrade and not just affordable upgrade,,for all owners ,, it has been said they are an essential upgrade to the Michell Gyro And Orbe users,, with the result and comments all positive results,, the debate about O rings has been a positive one, NBR is the best one to use,, but the option of EDPM is there as well,,
P.O.A. for the Full kit and requires the owner to measure the holes in the chassis,, will have all the parts in the Kit picture
P.O.A. is not a kit ,, will not require the owner to measure the chassis , but will fit with they only 2 bushes fitted NO bearings , No sorbothane pads or sorbothane top washer,, just the pylon it self ,,
A quality product in a plain white cardboard Box,,
This is a long term upgrade that will need servicing ,,the same as the springs,, I have been told they Bring a great benefit to the Gyro and orbe by the users , but I do to have test equipment or graphs to explain why ,,only ears , and now a lot of them
'On a gyro it’s a significant amount compared to the cost of a deck, but the benefits gained make it a bargain. On an Orbe it’s comparatively less but the benefits are just as great.' from a happy user ,,
ATB pete
(Pricing removed temporarily by Alex_UK, Mod, as requested by Peter whilst under review.)
please note they are purchased through http://www.true-point.audio/
I do not do any other upgrades at this moment in time,, The Acrylic Ring is bought off ebay 114mm diameter x 12mm with a 80mm hole in the center ,, bought off wholesaleplastics,, on ebay ,, use the maichell arm board to drill 3 x5mm drill holes, and then add
a rubber gadget , 3 longer bolts,, and use the same spacer as with the Michell arm board ,, I do not make them ,, and will not supply them,
I have a solid acrylic arm board that will be on test in the next couple of months,, the cost has to be worked out ,, made out of cast acrylic ,, for sme,, these are still on the drawing board ,, Pete's gyro and orbe suspension upgrade pylons made by true point engineering ,,for the j a michell orbe and gyro .are for sale,
Hi Pete,
good job with the pylons, we kept in touch in the early days of development.
Im interested again now that they are a complete product and I’m thinking to get a set to improve my “Gorbe” deck.
one thing just to confirm, can the Michell spring covers still be used to fit over the pylons the same way as they do on the stock Michell springs?
thanks.
Gary.
Yes they do go over Peter's designQuote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
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cheers Al , they do hide the pylons ,, if needed,https://4mjj4q.db.files.1drv.com/y4m...&cropmode=none
ATB
Pete
Thanks Guys.
Pete think an order will be coming your way soon. :)
Not read the whole thread here, whats the measure the holes on the chassis thing?
you have pm
Thanks Pete, read that over tonight when back from work.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwernaffield
you are welcome,
pete
I have been asked about the acrylic spacer that you can buy off eBay and drill your own holes to make it fit ,, it was 114mm diameter 12mm thick and with a 85mm hole in the center ,, you need to make the gaskets from rubber and buy the longer bolts, all off eBay ,, I do not make them or supply them ,,
how ever I am looking at dining a full SME arm board out of Acrylic ,,which will be on piece and will replace the spacer and the Michell arm board ,, with the use of one piece proper arm board , ,which will be started tomorrow,,
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using the Michell arm board as a template, and then getting the rear counter bored to 85mm diameter fitting a gasket to the base,, to use a damper ,, i will let you know the cost, at a later date,,
The pylons are still made, The O rings that Steve had were replaced, this was because the wrong shore rating had been sent by mistake,, I had somehow ended up with 90 shore and not the 70 ,, he is now happy ,, and continues to enjoy the Gyro he owns,,
ATB
pete
O Ring testing ,, After all that has been said ,,and done,, the rings will take a weight of 12.5 kg easy , if one is cut they will not unravel,,
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At 12.5kg one single O Ring snapped
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At 6.5 kg , one o ring will hold,
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In my opinion,, I think I would need about 39 kg to stretch the 6 o rings, and the 5 , but as I do not have something that weight I cannot confirm that ,,as one o ring will hold 6.5 kg to 7.5 kg and the pylons use 6 ,, 6.5x6= 39kg ,, 6 kg x the 3 pylons, 117kg all told,
where a threaded string will take 6kg x 3 18kg in total , the Orings are all separate and are safer than a threaded string in my opinion in this application
Pete's Pylons for michell orbe and gyro , using the the LTSS made by true point engineering and not by michell,,
the gyro platter is about 3.5 kg , the orbe platter is 4.5 kg ,, the chassis is about 4kg , with out the dampening material , each Lead weight is 1.5kg ,, x2
ATB
Pete
That's brilliant Peter...and peace of mind, knowing that nothing is gonna give any time soon..that is an incredible amount of weight..and a test taken to the extreme with the o-rings being only 2mm thick ..I've always had faith in them anyway and knew they were exceptionally strong. This will assure potential buyers of the pylons, that their valuable cartridges are not going to be at risk along with the many enhancements to sound quality and stability...excellent..
hi Alan it was just to give peace of mind ,to the users, things had been said about if one had broken it would be a problem ,,, but the test proved it would not be,,only if I had used a continual length on rubber or other material it would of failed if threaded through all the slots in the base and nut ,, as one o ring will hold around the 7 kg mark ,, I use six in the design ,, it takes a lot to break one , if it had been one continual peace of rubber or thread it would of just pulled through the slots leaving no support at all,,
A.T.B
Pete
just to update ,, you do not have to buy the bearings if you do not want to , this would leave the Michell bearings in the posts ,, so no need to remove them when fitting and no risk of loosing them either , the bearings are just to complete a further upgrade,,if you want them .. the price with out the bearings is £130,, with the bearings £150 ,, made to measure are £180 with out the bearings,, and with £200,,
all will have spare O rings ,,
The ceramic bearing is just a further upgrade to those who wish to do this,, along with the bearing ball in the main bearing ,, and come with the higher payment ,, along with the sorbothane parts ,,
there is no risk if the O Ring snapped, as the rest is held in place with the further 5 O rings,, ,,
the basic kit is £130 ,, ,,this Is an Exceptional Value product that comes in a plain box,, with NO Strings Attached,, they work straight out of the box, no need to measure if you do not want to ,,
as the tests have shown they will take considerable force to break the O Rings,, due to the design not being a one piece material threaded through the base and nut they can take the weight Placed on them ,, unlike a one piece material that is threaded through the nut and base it will only take 6 kg before it may fail in my opinion ,, Peter's Pylons use a total of 6 rings on each post ,each single o ring will take 6.5 -7.5 kg ,,, not just 6 kg ,,using a one piece material that is threaded through the nut and base,, they are designed to fit into both chassis holes, to give better stability ,location onto the designed Michell engineering points for the suspension ,,
ATB
pete