Well sweety you are extremely unlikely to get any other experience so just enjoy the privilege!
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Ashley, this is Richard's ranting thread, not your ranting thread, so I suspect he'll be along to tell you ever so gently to stick your ADM9s up your a*se ;)
Would you like me to set-up your very own ranting thread? I'm nice that way :)
Marco.
:D
Marco.
Marco please remove this AVI ADM9 twaddle to where it belongs unless we end up getting another 10 pages of it as happened last time.
I'm on it, dude ;)
Marco.
Done :)
And Ashley now has his own little 'den', too :eyebrows:
Marco.
THIS THREAD IS NOW AN OFFICIALLY FREE FROM - ASH - JC - AVI -ADM9 - ZONE. :smoking:
Anyone who breaks this rule including moderators and admins will feel my wrath :eyebrows:
Hmmm.... I don't think you have anything I would like to 'feel'! :eyebrows:
Sorry.... couldn't resist! :smoking:
ADM9s are wonderfull
I'm more worried about his spelling of 'wonderful'!
Shaky keyboard, Steve? ;)
Marco.
So who has bought at low price direct from China via ebay?
So who has paid much higher price for product made in China and then supposedly modified in the UK?
So who has paid though the nose for product made in China but with a Brit name on it?
So who's the fool (can we have some more smilies I am bored with these)
The spelling was deliberate. I was copying from elsewhere here.Quote:
I'm more worried about his spelling of 'wonderful'!
Shaky keyboard, Steve? ;)
Marco.
Me. I heard it at a dealer, Mr. C - a member and regular poster here. It was modified and CE approved by Pure sound - also member and will be further modified, all being well, by AnthonyTD - moderator here.Quote:
So who has bought at low price direct from China via ebay?
So who has paid much higher price for product made in China and then supposedly modified in the UK?
So who has paid though the nose for product made in China but with a Brit name on it?
It will be a bespoke amp that may prove to be an investment, at least in the sense that I could enjoy it for years and sell it on for little, if any loss.
So why did it need that work and do you know what was done?
That company in China sells direct and would have cost you a fraction of the price!!
What do you think CE is in this case, just bullcrap, all that is needed is self certification. Anyway in my opinion no valve amp meets safety regs, it is the nature of the beast.
So something that would have cost you less that £200 probably costs you well over £1000. It is just another way of creating slurp!
AND if Anthony is such a geniis-arse then give him a blank canvas to work on why modify the modified :scratch:
richard,
cool down, look at my web site when you get chance, you will see lots of equipment that i have made from scratch as you put it! the problem i have with a lot of potetial customers is that they want to get onto the valve train, but havent got the funds to purchase a bespoke piece of kit, so rather than turn them away, i try and recomend something that is well within their price range that has potential for further modifications when they can afford it!
;)
I am very cool, you are being sensitive, it was Steve I was refering too. Why get the modified modified, why not give you the Chinese amp in the first place. I also personally see no point in you manufacturing from scratch as the Chinese even with shipping costs to UK can well undercut you (and any British manufacture), and the basics of valve amps are just soooo bloody simple. The logic in valve bespoke would be for you to recommend a unit to buy from China direct and then weave what the others call your magic on it. Seems daft to me to buy a Chinese amp modify it and call it your own with your own name on like the one he bought, AND then even more daft pay a retailers margin on top.
Daftness put on daftness put on daftness, and your contribution is the least daft in the process.
richard,
i agree, [with most of it anyway] i do try and get people to buy the things from the main suppliers, but on this ocasion, steve wanted that paticular amp, the choice was his, not mine!
good valve amp technology is no simpler than GOOD transistor/chip based circuitry, so if that dig was meant for me cut it out, or i will buy a pair of AD?9 AND TELL PEOPLE YOU SOLD THEM TO ME!;):eyebrows::confused::lol:
Just because you are on the team, doesn't mean you are safe from digs. Why do you think there were any, rather sensitive, huh! why!. My digs per usual are against distributors and retailers, who are on costs, add no value, slurping the trough. Do you add value, if yes then you are justified.
You know bloody well valve circuits a much more simple than solid state, on average it takes two or three times as many gain devices to do the same job with sand. I used glass amps as my guide for simplicity in my sand circuits. Other problems though IMO which is why I use sand, but I am fine with what you do.
richard,
as stated,
conventional valve circuitry is imho no more or less complicated than sand circuitry, but i dont usualy do conventional in my own designs, and when i have worked out how to put a picture up on here i will show you a board of one of my creations!;)
Yes he uses them in his toilet system.
Marco.
If I remember correctly they were hooked up to a spectral pre and densen power amp in the toilet. Come on guys now be real, where else would you expect ADM9's, spectral and densen to work optimally other than a toilet.
I think it's because the ADM9s sound a bit "farty".
Marco.
Just in case your wonderin guys here's a few Anthony "BILLY'D" some years ago:)Quote:
i can trim your wig and give you a 'Billy special', too, if you want.
Anyway come on - who has bought direct from China or HK or Taiwan on ebay. Was it a problem or did you get a bargain, don't you find it a bit strange that they can make a profit at those prices?
Were any of you tempted but chickened out due to the valve (mini) cartel telling you not to touch it on the other forums, so many scare stories. Well who is running scared - huh!
S'ok, Daddy. The bad men have been banned, and permanently!!Quote:
I disapear to RHS Wisley for the day entertaining the Wif and what do I find when I get back nothing but more AVI and ADM9 on the thread and this time from the boosses, what the !
Me! And I couldn't be happier with my (modified) Chinese valve amp. Mind you, by the time I've finished it will be a South Wales one... :eyebrows:Quote:
Anyway come on - who has bought direct from China or HK or Taiwan on ebay?
What will we call it? How about the 'Boyo Acoustics Reference AM-2008'? :lol:
Marco.
P.S Anthony, where's that picture you were going to post for Richard to see? Has Rob not got off his arse yet? ;)
So what is the point of paying ridiculous prices for UK - EU - US ones?
So where are the weaknesses in Chinese bottle amps, I here the glass is OK but can be bettered and that the weak link is the transformers. I presume the output one as the mains one is quite difficult to bugger up.
So if Anthony does this what is the next step, is it sensible for Anthony to contact the manufacturer of his favorite Chinese amp and buy them in himself modify and put a name on it, 'cos basically that is what Puresound is.
Is this the future for the bottle market?
Reechard,
None, I guess, unless they're demonstrably better by a significant margin to warrant the extra cost.Quote:
So what is the point of paying ridiculous prices for UK - EU - US ones?
Anthony's probably better answering that one, but my experience so far has been that the valves are no more than of average quality, certainly compared to new stock Russian ones like cryo'd Svetlanas, and NOS ones of any origin are in a totally different league.Quote:
So where are the weaknesses in Chinese bottle amps, I here the glass is OK but can be bettered and that the weak link is the transformers. I presume the output one as the mains one is quite difficult to bugger up.
The large amount of circuit boards inside them is a sonic no-no, as 'proper' valve amps are wired point-to-point, capacitors and bridge rectifiers are generally of poor quality, output transformers could be bettered, and mains transformers are not suitable for UK voltage, certainly in the case of the Yaqin. You do however get a nice high quality chassis!
What must be remembered, though, is that the Yaqin, for example, is available to buy on Ebay for just over £300 DELIVERED to the UK, which is phenomenal value for money. What valve amplifier could you buy in the UK, EU or US for £300? Answer: none!
And even unmodified, replete with crap parts mentioned, they sound remarkably good. Modify them, as I've had done, and will continue to do, and you've got something very special on your hands, particularly when used as a power amp with a high quality valve preamp (they come as an integrated as standard).
I'll let Guy speak for himself, but I don't think that would be Anthony's cup of tea, no matter how profitable it was. I could be wrong, though! No doubt Anthony will be along to add his thoughts in due course...Quote:
So if Anthony does this what is the next step, is it sensible for Anthony to contact the manufacturer of his favorite Chinese amp and buy them in himself modify and put a name on it, 'cos basically that is what Puresound is.
Marco.
I built a point to point wired sand amp once, a complete pain in the arse and completely impossible in a production senario. Did it sound better, well marginally but nothing to make up for the ag. Anyway it made me look at what it was in PCB material and manufacture that caused this loss of quality and the changes I made took the process even further than hard wired. BUT that work probably wouldn't help bottle circuit PCBs. High voltage low current field propogates completely differently to low voltage high current field.
Ricardo- Como esta? Is the term "sand amp" commonly used in the Queen's english? I believe it was Harvey Rosenberg who coined that term. Would that be right? Cheers.
The Pure Sound A30 is based on a valve amp available from China, however I order them configured for Class A operation which involved re-speccing the mains and output transformers, changing the bias applied to the output stage, changing the feedback applied and having certain passive components fitted. When they arrive here I qc check each one, carry out a further minor modification and then supply them via retailers. I could have chosen to sell directly via ebay or a website but I'm old fashioned in the sense that I think that there is a place for a competent dealer giving a proper demonstration. I see too many people who buy things 'blind' and without advice ending up with very poor sounding hotchpotches of components that frequently don't suit each other. Many people do need advice & guidance in choosing equipment and a good dealer can provide that.
Incidentally the transformers fitted to the A30 are of a very good quality and give a better performance than any we were buying in the UK 15 years ago when I worked for another valve amplifier manufacturer. The A30 is better specified, better built, better sounding and cheaper than the equivalent amplifier we were making & selling in the UK back in the early 90's. I'd say that was progress. (at least from the consumers viewpoint)
The Phono stage (pictured in the avatar) is entirely my design and made in the same factory. Other products will be coming via the same means later this year.
I feel these items offer decent material value for money, can be heard around the country at reputable dealers and most importantly reflect the way I like music to be reproduced. I'd be the first to acknowledge that what I like may not be liked by everyone else, but it would be a dull old world if we all shared exactly the same tastes.
Sorry to barge in on your thread Richard. I'll leave it alone now.
Why? I mentioned Puresound so it became your business. This post of yours is largely trumpet blowing and I dissagree with lots of it, but it does put the case for this method of creating and selling product. Completely dissagree about retailers contributing they add nothing for the customer they add *for you*. Without them you would have had difficulty getting anyone to buy as you started on the lee side of the cusp of this process. Are you seriously telling me you wouldn't make your customers happier by charging them 50% of the present retail price! really it is a no brainer, plus the many methods and processes I have talked about in this thread and others for making up for the miniscule amount of benefit (apart from to their pockets) that retailers provide which involve the expansion of community. Retailers are not interested in choice and service, they are interested in profit for minimum choice and service, and basically they just want you to buy what they tell you - all ego based, which is why so many of them develop the *attitude* they are largely famous for. They are less and less likely to get away with it now, which is largely part of the industry changes I am observing and voicing.
So if Anthony does the same thing and goes direct and promotes via forums as he is already then he has a serious advantage. In your case the base amp you work from is less than a third of the price of yours direct from China, what is to stop others doing the same thing. The process of changing and improving is available, in the open, and published on the DIY forums.
This is a valve marketing possibility you have that doesn't apply to transistor amps, much harder to tweak as far more complicated (nod to Anthony) and difficult to access and less cost effective process. Much easier a la MF and others to get the manufacture done there to your specs and design.
It is term I have used for over forty years since the intro of silicon devices, sand amps v glass or bottle amps (should really be vacuum amps). Sand and glass made from the same sand - Silicon. Though silicon is just one components of most sand.
So I really don't remember if I invented the term or not :confused::smoking:
Suppose an individual wants to buy a new turntable. Suppose this person isn't confident enough to fit an arm or cartridge to it. But they want something good to make the most of an existing record collection. Are you suggesting they buy such a thing over the internet? A dealer can help them choose an appropriate arm and cartridge and set it up/install it for them. Suppose they want to buy some large speakers to go with it. We all know that Tannoys sound different to Pro-acs or ATCs, Spendors, ARTS whatever. Are you suggesting that people just choose based on a picture they see on a website? Maybe you are. Personally, I think it'd be a very poor way to choose a system but each to their own. While there are still dealers with the facility to play these options to people then they should be used. I wouldn't expect any such dealer to hold these items as demonstration stock and pay for the building in which they are kept out of the kindness of their hearts. I wouldn't expect them to give their time for nothing either.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion about this but I don't think speakers (in particular) are something that should be chosen from a picture. What's your alternative? Is it better to have to arrange to borrow 2 or 3 large sets of speakers to try at home (incurring all the risks of shipping via couriers) or to be able to go somewhere, hear them and perhaps borrow the preferred pair for a home trial. I know which method I (and most people) would still choose. However, it would seem that in your 'brave new world' such a facility will no longer exist. I suppose the person should just slap some drivers into a box until they find a combination that sounds nice. (I seem to recall that you suggested this as an approach to speaker design elsewhere on this forum!) Sadly, in the real world, most people have no inclination to DIY their hifi, just as most people have no inclination to DIY their cars, cookers or washing machines. There is a place for dealers. They can offer a useful service. I'd agree that many don't but there are some that still do.
Well said :gig:
Richard,
When I read your posts I like to think you are playing Devil's Advocate but the one above confirms to me that you are just bitter and twisted. With your rather volatile temperament, it would seem that you have managed in your time to fall out with a lot of dealers/distributors to the extent that direct selling is pretty much your only option. Thus your (jaundiced) views amount to nothing more than soup grapes.
I know exactly how much the A30 would have cost me without the dealer margin but I am very reluctant to buy anything that I cannot listen to first. I received excellent service from Mr. C who travelled the 50 miles from his place to demonstrate the product in my home after I had already spent a few hours down there in the Malvern Hills a couple of weeks earlier. I needed to be sure that it could drive my speakers in my room and work with my system.
I love this amp in stock form as does my wife who told me only yesterday that now CDs she buys no longer go straight to the car, they get played in the home system first. She is not a hi-fi person but in her own words the system is now "involving and enjoyable to listen to." Her initial reaction on setting eyes upon the amp was that it was rather ugly. I'm thus pleased to confirm that she really doesn't judge things solely on appearances...
The mods Anthony will be performing on it in just over a week, all being well, will be fine tuning to add refinement without compromising musicality. The amp will then also become a unique and bespoke item.
With really good hi-fi the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts unless you've got agendas/axes to grind.