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If the cap fits under the board ok hopefully they have put via's on pin4 and pin8 so the cap is close as poss to the actual op-amp pins
If running the cap to the socket pins, the added track on the socket (also the track on those adaptor boards is thin) makes having the cap on the socket pins less effective
Did anyone get the original Tirna 4032 design to fit in the case?? Mine just arrived (shipped the day before they became aware) and they said 'return if doesn't fit'... I'm not clear if there's some differences in clearance in the 7520 due to how it's put together..
In other words.. should I take out my 4562s and try these, or just send them back? Thanks folks.
EDIT>> Nope, not even close. In fact, with all the hot glue on mine, moving the cap under the chip still wouldn't be low enough to close the case.
Oh well, I'll return and wait to see what's next!
Another update on the Tirna 4032 mod:
I received the new version of this today. The pins appear to be about 2mm shorter and the cap is now mounted underneath the board. so I think about 4-5mm of hight has been lost. Unfortunately the legs of the cap are bent round and soldered to the tops of the board legs, so they are quite a bit longer than they were before. I'll take some photos when I get them home tonight and I'll use a better camera this time. ;)
I've had the LT1364's in for a week now.
They are rather good too. Not as wide a soundstage but it seems to be more of a front to back stage. (if that makes sense). Great detail. Only criticism is that with some recordings they sound a tad bright. I'd certainly recommend them as an option.
Good news, I await mine in the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy
Why would the longer Cap legs be a problem?
It means the cap is further away from the opamp and therefore less affective. I'll leave the explanation of why it's less affective and whether that's important to someone who understands electronics better than me. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Tirna guy reckons the inductance of the repositioned cap wouldnt really be at audible frequencies..Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy
no clue what that means, but he said its fixed the problem.
(which i can understand) :)
A few questions on this mod as I ponder sending the original (too tall) one back or soldering in place...
1. i haven't seen any comment/question on the effect of Stan's cap that's already on the board... aren't they now both in the circuit (though supposedly Stan's is too far away to have desired effect)?
2. If I decided to have this be my final opamp, and didn't believe in two different adapters in the path being optimum, might not Tirna's new board, without their cap, be close enough for Stan's cap to do it's duty if I removed Stan's opamp socket and soldered the Tirna straight to the board.
>>> Experts: do you think a little "audio perfection" is to be gained by directly soldering the newer Tirna board to the pc board, or is keeping Stan's socket in place just fine (especially if you guys aren't done finding the best opamp!)
3. What happened to some people complaining about a buzz or noise between songs (or something to that effect) with this mod?
Thanks folks!
Guys , if the legs are too long its totally defeating the object of having this additional cap:confused:
Add the track length on the socket board + the now extra length of the cap legs to the actual SMD op-amp:doh:
Remember there is a ceramic cap on the main board going to these same pins, your only adding the additional cap to get it close as possible to the new smd one
Any chance Stan will "bless" a particular method for using the 4032s??
Has anybody actually measured this chip with and without an additional cap yet???:scratch:
Leo,
How do find the 1364's? I'm pleasantly surprised.
I can report that the new version of the Tirna 4032 mod fits in my 7520 with the lid on. They are about 2mm below the lid. Saying that, I've removed the sticky pad and glue from under my amp board and trimmed all the component legs under it as short as I can get them, so even at this reduced hight they may not fit in some people 7520. I'm going to pass this info back to Tirna and see what they say.
Yes its about 6mm by 4mm :lol: Do you think we know what we are doing or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
Hey!! We know what we're doing! We want the optimal sound for the least amount of money without getting our own electrical engineering degree!:eek:
I don't have a 7520 but it works quite decent in another dac I've been trying it in, it went a bit bright with some material,it actually seemed to improve after some running in, sound was quite forward compared to say the LM4562Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Certainly not a bad chip!
Thats ok , it helps to be sure the upgraded IC is not ringing with oscillation though:eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougr33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
:lolsign: all you need is a 7520 owner who also owns a scope
I have a 7520 and a access to a digital scope. :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
Just tell me what I need to do and I'll give it a go.
The detail is excellent. Best I've heard so far. Just need to tame the top end a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy
Then what you waiting for, get probing:lol:
Someone to tell me what I'm looking for and how to look for it. :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
I know roughly how to use a scope but how should I set everything up to look for oscillation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Its another chip that may have some HF ringing, this could be making it sound bright.
Problem is chips like this and 4032 are bloody fast and high bandwidth, they don't always work too well as a straight drop in replacement for a circuit designed to use say a NE5532 without some adjustments/modifications .
I'd say it was more revealing of a poor recording.Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
If you've an idea how to use it I presume you know how to adjust the volt/div and time/div etcQuote:
Originally Posted by HighFidelityGuy
Replay a test signal like a sine wave, these can be downloaded and burnt onto a disc.
Look at the signal on the op-amps input pins and compare it against the output pins
Heres some small ringing on a 1k sinewave
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL129.../361410084.jpg
You can get much worse than that:) sometimes the output can look wild without any signal
That makes perfect sense to me, you'd make a good teacher if you're not one already. :smoking: I should be able to set this up before the end of the week. Thanks!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
What a helpful bunch of people are on this forum. :)
No problem! no better way to learn than to get stuck in:)
Funny thing is some people seem to like the effect of instability , it can give the impression of added air and detail, what your hearing is stuff thats not on the actual recording but caused by the HF ringing.
Nothing worse to my ears than this brightness/distortion, its not good long term for your kit either
BTW theres more involved with thorough testing but as a simple starter to at least give you an idea if the op-amp stands half a chance in there
If you like detail and forwardness I'm thinking you'll also like the AD8066's. I was using the 1364's for awhile and then switched back to the 8066 and noticed they were doing much the same thing but more of it. I'm liking that speed and clarity combined with my tube amp much better than the LME49720. My wife loves them too and says they sound totally different whereas the others sound mostly alike (to her).Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Note that I'm running it in a TC-7510. Leo or Stan, you reckon there would be much difference in the sound for a 7520?
Hi Leo, are you referring to the 1364 chip?;)Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
Thanks for the suggestion. I have a modded 7510 and a standard 7520. Not much in it but I prefer the 7520.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgarner71
I'd really like to get one of those 7520's. If only they had 2 optical inputs.Quote:
Originally Posted by trailer
Tirna have today refunded my money for the 4032 op amp. I take it that means they have not found a solution to the height problem.
Next op-amp please?
odd...
I got an email from them saying they had fixed the problem, and were sending out teh refitted caps???
Hdn't someone before in this thread said they had got it back from Tirna and it fitted ok?
*confused*
I haven't heard anything since the original "there's a delay" email.
:confused: :scratch:
The funny thing is I told them I wasnt bothered and I would adapt the case if they couldnt solve the problem.
Oh well....
Heres what I got sent April 13th
Hi,
The inductance of the vias is negligible at audio frequencies.
Don't worry about it. We have a solution that allows the case to fit over the adaptor.
We are sending out all orders that haven't been sent yet, with the modification made, and modifying orders that are being sent back to us.
Regards,
Alan Dripps,
Tirna Electronics.
:lol: well it behaved in a dac I tried it in, no idea how well it runs in either a TC-7510 or 7520Quote:
Originally Posted by rhmjmango
Seems like they're forcing an exchange on the originals. I'm returning mine tomorrow, but I was thinking of just demanding a refund.. it seems to me that they're selling a "Beresford Upgrade" that they've never tried themselves, and that doesn't feel kosher to me. Should be our option after they sold something that didn't fit in the case.
Guess we'll see. I don't mind paying if folks here are successful with the new version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
if theres via's on the converter boards which go straight through to the smd op-amp pins 4 and 8 soldering the cap on the bottom board to these via's should be okQuote:
Originally Posted by Gazjam
Sure you all know what via's are
I will be the first to own up and say I dont know....your not talking about the latin for street are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by leo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant
you ever noticed little holes on double sided pcb's? those holes are through plated connecting parts of the top layer track to the bottom layer track.
If theres a via on the bottom of the little converter pcb going straight to those needed pins on the top layer it should be pretty close as long as the boards not too thick
Guys, the revised Tirna board does the job perfectly, I can quite honestly say it is a job well done and dealing with them has been a pleasure.
Outstanding, kinda expecting nothing less from these guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by tizer2000uk
A+ ebayer I'd say.
Hopefully mine will arrive tommorow and I'll slot them in.
4562's are outstanding, if these are better..
cool.
Oh, listening to "Kind of Blue" for the first time thru the 7520.
Fekkin hell - your in the room!
That's great news. I'll just take the swap then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizer2000uk
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by tizer2000uk
Got mine this morning, fits in the case no problem whatsovever.
Here we go again, burn-in time! (mabye)
My apologies to everyone for causing confusion-Tirna have only refunded the postage to me :doh:. The revised op-amp arrived today so I will fit it tonight after I finish work.
popped in a LT1364 this morning, my o my what a revelation versus the stock opamps - it's like a new DAC all over again.
the percussion, seperation, soundstage, vocals .....all much improved and i expected some improvement but not this drastic. as some have mentioned they are quite forward in presentation but not overly and i expect this will tone down a little after a few hrs - glad i don't have bright amps though as i think it might be too much. the increase in detail being picked up is incredible to be honest.... guitars,cymbals + spatial sounds are off the charts.
got some 4032's on the way also so will see how they fare versus these 1364's.
The stock opamps are the same that are being used in other far more expensive DACs like the DAC1. It just goes to show how excellent the TC-7520 is in its basic design. By loading up a set of more refined opamps you can challenge a lot of other DACs. I wonder how a TC-7520 with THS4032 opamps fitted would stack up against the seriously expensive opposition out there.
I'd be really interested to see/hear a shoot-out between the modded 7520 and some £1000+ DAC's and the Linn Sneaky DS. My local hi-fi shop currently use the Sneaky as there reference system since it beat there old £5000 CD transport + DAC setup. If I get chance sometime I might challenge them to a duel. :eyebrows:
I need to call in for a chat sometime soon anyway.