Let the fun & games begin :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
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Let the fun & games begin :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
No time like the present...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Meanwhile, I'll be listening to the Stillpoints LPI again tonight.
Guys,
Just to let you know that I've been having a good listen to the SPD-4, vs. the 423.5 Phono Litz (with Furutech and Eichmann connectors)... Most interesting, as the presentation of both cables is rather different!
More on this later. A definitive conclusion will be reached, as to which I consider is best, in the next couple of days! :cool:
Marco.
If all things turn out equal, I'll buy what I heard and was so impressed with: the 423.5 Phono Litz 'Special'.
So what's the verdict, Marco? I loved the 423.5 special so I only need to know if the SPD-4 sounds better, not different. I'm itching to place an order.
Right, off to do some soldering now.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm must admit this has been a while in coming, come on Marco what do you think???Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Martin, are you soldering some swanky new plugs of your Tellurium IC's??;)
Nope - given up as I cannot do it without trashing them and I need a path back if I cannot do it. Working on plan B...Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
as well as in-validating the warranty, re-sale value will be reduced and who is to say afterwards they will sound any better anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Hi Martin,
Your timing is impeccable - I was just about to post my thoughts! You'll be pleased to know that, IMO, the 423.5 Phono Litz (special) is the more preferable of the two cables :)Quote:
So what's the verdict, Marco? I loved the 423.5 special so I only need to know if the SPD-4 sounds better, not different. I'm itching to place an order.
I've been listening very carefully to the cables in question for quite a while now, and every time I swap back to one or the other, the difference is rather marked and easily heard, as is, rather interestingly, the sonic signature of solid-silver conductors vs, solid-silver Litz conductors...
The SPD-4 initially sounds very 'impressive', in that if 'glacier-cool' clarity and an upfront and dynamically 'spot-lit' sonic presentation is your bag, whilst still being musically involving, then I've heard nothing better. In that respect, I'm pretty sure that the SPD-4 would 'out-Nordost' a Nordost, as it were. Given Andrew's oft-stated sonic proclivities, I can understand why he loves it so.
However, to my ears, what the 423.5 Phono Litz (special) does is retains the sheer clarity and 'hear-through' quality of the SPD-4, but with it sounds more fluid, adding layers of texture, subtlety, filigree detailing and finesse, which makes the SPD-4, in comparison, sound somewhat 'etched', tonally a little too cool, and musically, a little 'rushed'. Don't get me wrong, much of this will be system-dependent, and I can imagine that in systems which need a bit of a 'pep-up', and where the listener's priorities major on a ruthless dissecting of information in recordings, the SPD-4 would be the ideal tonearm cable solution.
For me, however, the 423.5 Phono Litz does that, too, but with greater finesse, and in way which allows the nuances in music to shine through more convincingly, such that the best recordings are revealed in all their glory, but one's enjoyment of the whole is less of an 'intellectual' experience and more one which stirs the soul and conveys the passion of performers (all of which, of course, presumes such was originally present on the recording itself).
Both the SPD-4 and 423.5 Phono Litz are top-notch tonearm cables, but it's the latter (with Furutech and Eichmann connectors) which is now my chosen reference cable, so go ahead, Martin, and place that order! :cool:
I've been so impressed with the cables Yannis makes that I'm going to try some of his stereo interconnects, primarily for connecting my SUT to the phono stage in my Croft preamp. Therefore, a pair of these chaps (known as 223.5 Connect-Litz, however, mine will be fitted with Eichmann Silver Bullet Plugs), will be winging their way to Marco Towers:
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6157/dsc06383f.jpg
Here's what Yannis has to say about them:
:eek: Look out Tellurium Q! :eyebrows: ;)Quote:
It uses exactly the same conductors, as the 423.5 Phono Litz, but the main difference is that instead of having all 4 litz conductors in a single cable (star-quad) it uses 2 separate cables (one for each channel) with a twisted pair in each of them. In other words, you do maintain a continuous run of the same cable. The 223.5 Connect-Litz has actually the same exactly structure as each of the length of your 423.5Phono-Litz cable that runs between the splitter and the RCAs.
The other difference is that the Interconnect version uses a twin (overlapping) silver plated braid instead of a single one.
A couple of months ago a group of audiophiles from S.East Asia tried the 223.5 Connect-Litz and they were so happy with it that decided to replace all of their top line Audionote AN-Vx and Kondo cables with it. Well, this meant that since then we pretty much work with their orders.
Incidentally, the cost of the 423.5 Phono Litz (with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann Silver Bullet Plug RCAs) is £382.00 (for a 1.2m cable). It is available to purchase, by contacting Yannis at: info@back-promo.co.uk
Marco.
Great news, Marco. I'm rather relieved in a way as I already know the 423.5 Phono Litz special since it was in my system that it impressed me so much. Therefore I'm completely comfortable ordering one, knowing what I'll be getting. Off to talk to Yannis...
:eek: Look out Tellurium Q! :eyebrows: ;)
http://www.lagaycenter.org/images/co...lder/30102.jpg
I see the shield is connected to flying leads (to go to earth), this strikes me as a good idea (not unique, but still quite uncommon).
Well, dude, as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the listening. I'll bring them to your bake-off and we'll see what happens! :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us
I've already heard Martin's Blacks against my MG G2000HDs (with silver WBTs). Why do you think he's trying to change the plugs on his TQs? ;)
Marco.
Indeed, Mark. I also liked the idea, and can see the benefit of it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
Here's what Yannis says on the subject:
Marco.Quote:
Also, taking into consideration the position of the cable I would strongly advise for it to have a separate ground lead for connection to your phono stage/pre-amp. This lead will have nothing to do with the ground lead from your tonearm. Its sole purpose is to drain any interference picked up by the shields of the interconnects. It would only be at the one end of the cable and would look like the one in the photo I have attached. Whatever cable you decide to use in the end in that position (unless it is either unshielded or coax), it would benefit hugely from such an arrangement).
Nice one, dude. You'll now be able to recreate the amazing results we achieved in your system with the 423.5 Phono Litz (special), when I visited last month! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Marco.
For more info on the stereo interconnects Yannis does, see his website (which is currently under construction):
http://www.back-promo.co.uk/html/interconnect.html
:)
Marco.
Andy,
If I were you, I'd ask Yannis to send you a 423.5 Phono Litz, to try against your SPD-4. I'll be returning my 'stock' 423.5, which Yannis had sent me as part of the cable comparison. He'd actually fitted Eichmann Silver Bullet Plugs on it, although it still had its stock DIN plug, so all he'd have to do is fit a Furutech DIN to it, and send it to you.
I'm sure that he'd do that for you, no problem.
I SERIOUSLY recommend (and I MEAN seriously) that you listen to that cable, in comparison with your SPD-4, just to make sure that you've got the best cable for you :)
Marco.
SME do this with their arm wiring and it does seem to work well.Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWaN
I've now ordered a 423.5 Phono Litz 'special' with Furutech and WBT connectors (I will standardise on them rather than Eichmanns) and silver plated shield. Yannis is a nice chap, isn't he!
I'm interested in a matching cable the other side of my SUT (SUT to phono amp) so I've asked him if he can make me a 423.5 Litz phono to phono cable. I can then compare it with the TQ that is already doing the job. By then, the TQ will have WBTs on it (plan B is in operation) so I will be able to perform a straight shootout.
So is this the one we call "The Marco" from now on ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
:)
Nice one, Martin. I'll stick with the Eichmanns, as I like them in that application.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
The guy's a star. If only all eBay traders were like this!! :exactly:Quote:
Yannis is a nice chap, isn't he!
Yup -the cable in question is called the '223.5 Connect-Litz', a picture of which I posted earlier (post #359). I'm also getting one (fitted with silver Eichmanns).Quote:
I'm interested in a matching cable the other side of my SUT (SUT to phono amp) so I've asked him if he can make me a 423.5 Litz phono to phono cable.
That'll be interesting... I've no idea how good the 223.5 Connect-Litz will be in comparison with the TQs, as I haven't heard that particular cable yet, but based on Jannis' 'giant-killing' tonearm designs, I don't see why he can't produce some similar interconnects! ;)Quote:
I can then compare it with the TQ that is already doing the job. By then, the TQ will have WBTs on it (plan B is in operation) so I will be able to perform a straight shootout.
Incidentally, how much are the TQ Blacks you're using in that position at the moment?
Marco.
Nope, just call it 'The Giant-Killer'! :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMusic
;)
Marco.
£285 for a 1m pair. Mine are 0.8m special, same price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Thanks, Martin. They're cheaper than I thought...
The 223.5 Connect-Litz starts at £90, for a 0.5m pair, so with the added cost of four WBT 0110Ags, it'll take it up about £250, which is in the same ballpark as the TQs.
So I've no idea why daftee-boy Brooky was laughing earlier... :scratch:
It was certainly interesting when we did the comparison between your TQ Blacks, with stock plugs, and my MG G2000HDs, with silver WBTs. Overall, I preferred the G2000HDs, although I could hear what you liked about the TQs, although what I preferred about my cables could've simply been down to the plugs.
That's why if you can fit the WBTs to your TQs, optimally, the results will be very interesting indeed. I'm convinced that there's more to come from those cables, with better plugs fitted!
One thing, mate, make absolutely sure that you get the WBT 0110Ag, and NOT the sonically inferior (more metal used) 0102Ag, otherwise you won't realise the full potential of the cable.
Are those the ones you've got for fitting onto the TQs?
Marco.
Yup, Yannis got back to me and I've just ordered a 0.8m 223.5 Connect-Litz with WBTs and you're right, the price is in the same ballpark as the TQ so it'll be a very fair shoot-out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
They are deffo WBT 0110Ag, I double-checked. Also those are what I ordered from Yannis.Quote:
One thing, mate, make absolutely sure that you get the WBT 0110Ag, and NOT the sonically inferior (more metal used) 0102Ag, otherwise you won't realise the full potential of the cable.
All very exciting, and Yannis is going to try to despatch the cables by the end of next week. Can't wait!
Hehehehe... Indeed - can't wait for my 'toys' from Yannis to arrive, too! :cool:
Marco.
Interesting point re the wbts - their website claims that for rcas the 0102 are better as they have better rfi rejection due to the metal. Foe digital the 0110 are recommended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Hi Tristan,
Yes, that's the theory. However, in practice, I've always found the 0110 (Ag or Cu) to be sonically superior in all applications (by a significant margin), be it analogue or digital.
The 0102s are a little more expensive, and of course have to be sold too, so it's understandable why WBT would pitch it the way that they do! ;)
Therefore, you can save yourself some money AND end up with better sound, by going for the 0110s :)
Marco.
Macro
Nice review. I think I'll stick with what I have for he time being as I don't have the regulations mods fitted yet (COME ON PAUL :ner:) or access to a decent SUT I have the silver core on order :cool: Now what will be interesting is if some of Yanis 's IC can beat me Valhalla ICs which I use as a reference :eek: I also think you must take into consideration that my main system is as and valve based like yours. The filigree detail that you mention is all well and good but I want to HEAR what's on the record and not have the thing glossed over by a wave of discolouration. I take your point about the SDP4 probably being better in my system but that's why I asked for that design and not the litz. Anyway it's all good, no point arguing over something like a tone arm cable :)
Andy
Hi Andrew,
No worries, dude. You'll love the Silvercore, which I'm sure for you will be a no-brainer upgrade. I'll be adding my final thoughts on it later, in comparison with the ST-80SE.Quote:
Nice review. I think I'll stick with what I have for he time being as I don't have the regulations mods fitted yet (COME ON PAUL) or access to a decent SUT I have the silver core on order...
Well, let's see what happens. That's a tough ask, but then again the SPD-4 trumped your TYR!Quote:
Now what will be interesting is if some of Yanis 's IC can beat me Valhalla ICs which I use as a reference :eek:
Not sure the point you're making there..... :scratch:Quote:
I also think you must take into consideration that my main system is as and valve based like yours.
That's cool, but please understand that in no way does the 423.5 Phono Litz (special) gloss over anything. Quite the opposite, in fact! To my ears, it simply does the job more subtly, with more finesse, than the SPD-4, and with less of a pronounced sonic signature. I suspect that this is down to its unique construction.Quote:
The filigree detail that you mention is all well and good but I want to HEAR what's on the record and not have the thing glossed over by a wave of discolouration.
But then you like the sonic signature of Nordost cables, whereas I wouldn't give them house room! ;)
Horses for courses....
No arguments here, mate - just intriguing discussion, as always. Anyway, enjoy the SPD-4. It's a very fine cable and will marry superbly well with the Silvercore :cool:Quote:
I take your point about the SDP4 probably being better in my system but that's why I asked for that design and not the litz. Anyway it's all good, no point arguing over something like a tone arm cable :)
Marco.
Interesting comment, Andy. What I heard with Marco's 423.5 'special' in my system was a combination of great wealth of detail within a fantastic (and I mean strongly better than with my Dynavector cable) soundstage with greater width, depth and, intriguingly, height. The sense of a real space with dimensionality was palpable and all three of us heard it clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
Now, I think that there is an important symbiosis going on with tonearm cable, SUT, and interconnect to phono preamp; in fact, I think this is critical to success. So in my case, the 423.5 'special', Choir Audio SUT-H7 and Tellurium Q Black worked very well together although Marco preferred the G1000HD/WBT in the latter position. I have ordered a 223.5/WBT to compare with the TQ and get the very best symbiosis I can achieve.
As for your comment about valves, bear in mind that my system is all solid-state, so I'm not sure that the chosen technology is a factor.
Martin and marco,
Points taken guys. I'm happy with what I have at the moment and I thank you for taking the time point out that the improvements the other cable may add to my system. I need another 3 to 4 months evaluating the new internal regs and sut before I change to earn cable AGAIN :( I have some speakers to fettle and cross overs to build so it would be nice just to let the system sit in a state of stasis for a few months and enjoy what I have:cool: I do intend to try some new ic's and they won't be tellurium based, well not for the SS system.
Lots of love and kisses
A
I got a mail today from Paul Hynes stating that the regulation mods have been posted so I may be able to give a little more insight into how the SPD-4 works in my system over the next few weeks :)
Excellent, Andrew. Take your time, lay everything out carefully and study what you have to do before doing it and you will be fine.
Indeed... It was one of the most clear-cut, 'no brainer' cable comparisons I've ever taken part in during 25+ years of my interest in high-end audio... The 432.5, from Yannis, is undoubtedly a rather special tonearm cable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Rarely have I heard another (to all intents and purposes quality tonearm cable) be rendered to sound so fundamentally 'broken', as your Dynavector did. Not to worry, mate, you'll soon have a 423.5 Special of your own - then prepare to rediscover your record collection! ;)
I would agree, regarding the symbiosis, although the 423.5 Special pretty much tells it 'as it is', so if your T/T is doing the biz, then exactly what it's doing in that respect will be reproduced in all its glory.Quote:
Now, I think that there is an important symbiosis going on with tonearm cable, SUT, and interconnect to phono preamp; in fact, I think this is critical to success. So in my case, the 423.5 'special', Choir Audio SUT-H7 and Tellurium Q Black worked very well together although Marco preferred the G1000HD/WBT in the latter position. I have ordered a 223.5/WBT to compare with the TQ and get the very best symbiosis I can achieve.
I liked the way that music appeared to flow better, with the TQs, but I could hear the dynamically restricted, rather 'opaque' quality, and lack of 'sparkle', I now (from many hours of listening experience) associate with ANY cables fitted with heavy metal plugs.
If you can do the job properly, I'm confident that the silver WBTs will liberate the inherent sonic qualities of your TQs, adding to the openness, expansiveness and clarity that they're undoubtedly capable of. Keep us posted on how you get on! :cool:
Marco.
I assumed at the time that this was all normal workaday comparisonQuote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Glad to have been present as the music was unveiled:gig:
I've just been looking at some top of the range nordost, it seems they use the plastic bodied copper wbts, not the metal ones. Looks like there listening tests re metal vs plastic match your findings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
The cables I have with wbts definitely add a lovely sparkle to the music. Its not artificial, just less getting in the way. More emotion comes through.
Hi Tristan,
Interesting about Nordost... For me, the effect of the plugs is obvious and easily heard, so if they have actually listened, it's interesting that they've reached the same conclusion.
I concur. That's exactly what I hear in my own system :)Quote:
The cables I have with wbts definitely add a lovely sparkle to the music. Its not artificial, just less getting in the way. More emotion comes through.
Marco.
How stiff is the plastic compared to the metal?
No idea, mate, why? The plastic housing underneath is pretty rigid, but no more so than the metal one.
Marco.
Just interested to find out if my theo ry in a materials stiffness having an impact on sonic quality
The outer plastic is not very stiff. In fact I worry about cracking it when trying to tighten them up tightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
Yannis is probably despatching my 423.5 Phono Litz 'Special' and 223.5 'Special' on Monday. He's just waiting for the Furutech tonearm connector. Yippee!
Excellent news, matey! I look forward to reading what you think :cool:
Marco.
I've ordered a 423.5 today but mine will have a Cardas DIN and Eichman silver bullet RCAs. Yannis is a very nice guy to deal with. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
Nice one, Bernie. You'll not regret it! :)
Marco.
Be really good to hear all of these against each otherQuote:
Originally Posted by Canetoad
<sees Dunfermline> - ooh could be tricky
Enjoy
Mike, you would need a cable which doesn't impede the bounce of your LP12.
Indeed, but that's presuming that, in the long term, he's going to be keeping his LP12! ;)
Having spoken with Mike, I suspect that the outcome of the above will depend on what happens when he hears either my modded Techy or Martin's in his own system :)
Marco.
Wouldn't cable stiffness have a small impact on non suspended decks too, a stiff cable thereby bypassing those often expensive feet one fits to these things? Maybe if it was carefully dressed/looped between deck and phono stage it wouldn't matter?