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LOL! That's a perfectly fair comment, Dave; point noted :)
I just wanted to 'zap' any notions whatsoever that admin ever thought like that!
Your cartridge and headshell are quite safe, unless of course the cat gets them... :eyebrows:
ONLY KIDDING! :lolsign:
Marco.
Hi
not quite back in circulation but had a quick read whilst working in manchester and it looks like there are a couple at least that feel some common ground with my perspective - equally the mod team seem to have their heckles up and in rationalisation mode - in a fairly discreet area of the forum we have found 3 or 4 suggesting changes but still you tell us why we are wrong, how we don;t get it or how we don;t understand - its classic stuff!
I don't agree that I don;t get AOS - I think I just saw, and was confused by, a gap between your stated aim (I recall Marco you said you wanna grow up past 1000 members and get on a par with the likes of PFM and wigwam who had the advantage of an early start) and your actions
your actions to me are one of "join us if you are like us and happy with the way things are" - nothing wrong with this (indeed if I had a forum I would be exactly the same) but its not likely to result in a large forum cos it intimidates and restricts potential membership
my latest thoughts are its a bit like new labour on here - controlling and nanny state cos it thinks it knows best, most of the time not realising its doing it and the impact of its actions is totally at odds with its intended outcomes
my day job is advising people on how to improve their business and I offered what I thought was a constructive observation based on (what I understood to be) the desire to get grow the forum being at odds with the way you guys are conducting yourselves
if now you are clearly stating "we are what we are - like it or lump it" then I withdraw all my comments as they are wholly based on an incorrect assumption that you wanted a diverse, thriving community as opposed to a discreet gentlemans club with tightly defined rules and a very strong culture
I agree its unintentional - on the surface you are all very helpful and knowledgeable and encourage folks to post and get involved
Rgds
darren
Darren,
I think there is an element of us wanting both to expand and to retain a certain distinctive and subjectivist flavour.
I'd like these two aims to be in conflict as little as possible :eek:. By the same token I really don't want this place to become just like any other (hi-fi/music) forum. Inter as wells as intra-forum diversity is of utmost importance so some of the strong cultural element needs to remain.
Where there are conflicts of interests arising then balance and compromise will prevail to ensure progress.
I hate what New Labour does more than most and I'd hate to think we were anything like them. I do believe that this misconception is borne out of a number of visitors and contributors failing to grasp the fact that the mod/admin team play dual roles of contributors and moderators. The two roles are not played out simultaneously and no viewpoint made by any member of the team is the editorial line of AOS unless this is expressly stated.Quote:
my latest thoughts are its a bit like new labour on here - controlling and nanny state cos it thinks it knows best, most of the time not realising its doing it and the impact of its actions is totally at odds with its intended outcomes
You are free to disagree with the mod/admin team and say so. There is a big difference between offering an alternative view based on differing experience on the one hand and trolling on the other, the definition of which is playing devil's advocacy just to get a rise out of people.
Until everyone grasps this point (and even tests it) some will always see us as part of the Nulab Fascist dictatorship.
Hi Darren,Quote:
Hi
not quite back in circulation but had a quick read whilst working in manchester and it looks like there are a couple at least that feel some common ground with my perspective - equally the mod team seem to have their heckles up and in rationalisation mode - in a fairly discreet area of the forum we have found 3 or 4 suggesting changes but still you tell us why we are wrong, how we don;t get it or how we don;t understand - its classic stuff!
...if now you are clearly stating "we are what we are - like it or lump it" then I withdraw all my comments as they are wholly based on an incorrect assumption that you wanted a diverse, thriving community as opposed to a discreet gentlemans club with tightly defined rules and a very strong culture
I agree its unintentional - on the surface you are all very helpful and knowledgeable and encourage folks to post and get involved
Rgds
darren
I'm bowing out of this now because it's banging my head against a brick wall time. I'm sorry, but you are completely at odds with reality. The above in bold is nothing other than your peculiar way of looking at things. Dave and Peter are, despite a few minor issues, to my knowledge perfectly happy here, so I wouldn't include them as necessarily supporting your viewpoint.
How you arrive at this stuff goodness knows. In fact, rather than just the results of your imagination, I'd like to see some actual evidence from the main forum, in the form of direct quotes, to support your accusations above of how we are "conducting ourselves", so please provide some.
However, I'll leave other members of the team to deal with your queries on this thread mainly from now on, as we seem to be at complete odds with each other.
Marco.
Hi guys,
I hate doing this as I suspect that it will upset, but the following is a classic example of what (I believe) Darren was referring to when he said management are not open and choose to direct posts according to their viewpoint: -
"I'd like these two aims to be in conflict as little as possible . By the same token I really don't want this place to become just like any other (hi-fi/music) forum." :steam:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that statement if it was from a ordinary member but as it comes from 'Admin' it is seen as confirming the status quo and not really being open. All I can add to this is to remind you of my earlier posting re: -
if you really want this forum (child) to grow, let it go it's own way. It is no longer your child but belongs to the world at large. If you want to keep it as your 'baby', close it to new members and those who want it to develop naturally.
Sorry if this offends as I have absolutely no wish to upset anyone, particularly anyone who has had any part in creating this forum but, unless we can be open with each other rather than dance around the subject, we will continue to argue.
I shall be very sorry if this gets me excommunicated but that is how I see the situation. :(
Cheers,
I think you misunderstand what Steve was saying, Dave: that Art Of Sound should have it's own distinctive style and approach. New people are joining all the time - because they like what they see - we don't need to close the doors to maintain some cliquey museum piece.
Think about it like this. People develop an affinity with a brand because they like what it stands for. They know what it stands for and it's consistent in giving them what they have come to like. If a brand moves too far from it's roots it becomes just like it's competition - the people who liked it for what it was move away. It becomes percieved as a 'me too' brand - undifferentiated.
There's a balance to be struck between pleasing the silent majority - reflected in the number of posts we get, new members signing up, and the length of time people are active for - and those who speak up and suggest changes.
If we changed the format of the forum in response to every comment made I don't think the result would please everyone any more than the more considered approach we're taking.
Changes will happen, sure as eggs is eggs. They have before and they will again. And comments here will be taken into account.
And no-one gets 'excommunicated' for speaking their mind in Critics Corner :)
Spot on, Nick.
I can't really add to that, save to affirm to Dave that Steve's post wasn't intended in the way he interpreted it - and that there's no way would he ever be "excommunicated" over something like that :)
I do find it amazing sometimes what people think they'll get banned for here... Allow me just to reiterate:
NO-ONE WILL EVER BE BANNED FROM THIS FORUM FOR DISAGREEING WITH MEMBERS OF ADMIN IN CRITICS CORNER OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
Hopefully, that should do it :smoking:
Marco.
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the response. In my view the balance that needs to be struck is that between "we are happy with the forum as is" and "it's a lovely forum but it could be improved". I have a foot in both camps (me, sit on the fence?, never!! :) ). I was trying to 'put words in Darren's mouth' and that job is best left to Darren - he's proved perfectly capable of expressing himself in the past so I will leave him to it.
At the end of the day I guess that what matters is that the forum continues to grow and flourish. Monitoring the growth in new members each month will confirm or otherwise the 'growth' aspect - the 'flourish' aspect may be a little harder to montor, as joining the forum needs a positive input from the joiner whilst leaving the forum needs no action. By the time Admin realises that more are leaving (or just not posting or visiting ) than joining it may be too late.
As expressed earlier, I am happy with the forum but I cannot get away from the feeling that the 'parents' are determined to keep control of their 'child' whilst permitting others to benefit from being part of it. To repeat myself somewhat, excommunication not withstanding, I expect to be an active and independent minded member for the foreseeable future - I greatly enjoy my time here and while ever my 'maverick' opinions are welcome I expect to continue to do so. :)
Here endeth my final contribution to this thread (unless........)
Cheers,
Hi Nick and Marco,
Marco's posting came in whilst I was responding to Nick, so I didn't see it until I had pressed the 'Post' button.
Right, you guys, Lighten up !! My 'excommunication' comment was not a serious one - perhaps I should have put a more humourous smiley after it - sorry. If I had seriously thought that excommunication was a real possibility I would not be here now - I would have resigned rather than give you guys the pleasure of firing me !!
My sense of humour may be a little 'left of centre' and thus not all my 'humourous' comments may be seen as such. Im a dry, (some would say sarcastic), thick skinned Yorkshireman who has had a lifetime of keeping a very straight face when making the most (humourously) outrageous statement. As such I felt that I would be right at home in this forum !! :lolsign: Believe me you'll be in no doubt when I have something serious and controversial to say - in the meantime treat it as humour please - for better or for worse I plan to be around being provocative (with a slight smile on my face) for some time yet
I very nearly posted this, Dave, in response to your last post - all this talk about excommunication!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI
;)