Printable View
Those appear to be genuine, Gordon, as I have email copies of the relevant paperwork.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Steadman
Guys, I think we’re fast reaching the stage now of closing the thread, until such times as I’ve received the amp from Geoff, and can conclude matters from there, lest we continue going round in circles attempting on whom to apportion blame.
Marco.
Thanks Marco - discussion over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Gordon the guy has been found liable in a court of Law in the UK and the language I'm using is perefectly acceptable and legally fine too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Steadman
My defence would be veritas or truth.
The judgement is a matter of public record.
There is absolutely no ambiguity here.
On that note, this thread is now closed until I receive the amp from Geoff, whereupon the thread will be reopened and updated accordingly, along with following the matter to its (now decided) conclusion, of selling the amp in question and donating the funds to Cancer Research.
Thanks to all who have participated :)
Marco.
Just to let folks know that I’ve now received the amp from Geoff, which will be repaired and then in due course auctioned off for charity (on AoS). I will update the thread when that happens :)
Marco.
Any update on this ? its around 5 months ago now :scratch:
Anthony hasn't been keeping too well, so hasn't had a chance to sort the amp yet, daftee. Don't worry, when there are any updates on the matter I'll let folks know! :)
Marco.
Marco
If Anthony is out of action I can recomend
Graeme ( Valvebloke ) AmpRegen
http://www.ampregen.com/ampregenrestore.html
He has repaired a valve amp for me :)
No worries, mate. I'll pass that onto him, although I'm sure he'll get onto it as soon as he can :)
Marco.
Hi All,
Just an update, unfortunetly i havent had chance to inspect the amp in question yet, been very busy the last few months, and having to deal with a long standing illness, anyway, i am hoping to get to it soon, once i have inspected it, i will of course put up a full report of my findings here for all those interested!:)
Anthony,TD...
OKQuote:
Originally Posted by anthonyTD
Looking forward to the findings / report and auction :)
Hi All,
Well, its been a while, firstly i Appologise for the wait, at last i can confirm that this morning i unpacked the John Wood amplifier for the first time, and it is now sat on my bench, i will follow up later today with an indepth explanation of my first impresions, and findings.
Anthony,TD...
Woo Hoo , look forward 2 this :)Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyTD
Hi All,
After initial unpack, and visual inspection, unfortunately, it became obvious that this amplifier was not treated kindly in transit, the transformers on this amplifier are very heavy, and therefore they’re weight and hefty size have buckled the chassis slightly, and it has distorted significantly in certain areas etc.
Now I have had chance to inspect the amplifier, I would first like to put to bed some of the aspersions that may have been banded about at the time AOS members first read about this amplifier.
First, it is not a modified Chinese amplifier, [even I was somewhat originally under this impression]
Secondly, it is a true hard wired amp.
Thirdly, it uses high quality components.
[refer to picks I will post later]
The first thing I did after getting the amp on the bench was to test the valves.
The amp uses 2 x ECC82/12AU7 in the first stages, 2x 6SN7 in the second, and driver stage, And 4 x KT88 in the output stage. The output stage is grid biased, with individual bias setting controls on each output valve, which in some respects negates the need for closely matched output valves.
The amp also has adjustment for balancing the driver circuits, which offers the advantage of being able to adjust the signal being fed to each output valve quite accurately , which in turn helps in reducing the over-all distortion.
The gain stage valves all have DC supplied heaters to ensure low noise.
On first inspection of the four output valves [Sovtek KT88] I found that three of them had signs of being severely over-run, ie; the logo’s which are usually prominently red on these valves had turned almost white on three! This is what usually happens with output valves when either’ the bias has not been set correctly, or is non existent, or a fault has developed in the valve itself. After testing all four, it was found that three did indeed have issues. Next I powered up the amp [no output valves fitted at this stage] via a variac on the mains input, and measured the voltages everywhere on the circuit as I increased the input voltage. Everything seemed fine, even all the bias voltages were there on the output valve bases, a good sign.
I decided to discard the four original output valves,[for obvious reasons]and instead’ I fitted a good tested set of 6550’s I had lying around, that would be good enough to put in for the first power up and test etc.
Next, I wired the amp up to some dummy loads, a scope, and signal generator and switched the amp on.
Well, I am happy to report that after initial warm up, the amp came on fine, with no drama’s, and tested very well on both outputs, with a flat frequency response in excess of 50hz to 50khz tested at quarter power output.
This amplifier runs quite a high Anode/plate voltage, in excess of 600v, however, it runs the screen grids at about half that of the Anodes, this is usually a good compromise for sound and power output.
My first impressions with this amplifier are; it is very heavy, always a good sign with valve amps.
It has been put together very well, with real thought gone into the layout, and use of high quality components in key areas etc.
It is mechanically quiet when powered up.
All in all, I am pleasantly surprised by this amplifier, in its quality of build, its component content, and test wise.
I will leave it on for a while longer to see if it develops any issues, but so far, so good!
Anthony,TD…
Great work Anthony
I do hope we find the real reason and justice is done
Hi All,
I have now re-opend this thread, and all recent, and therefore relevant info will be transfered here!
New posts start from 312 above.
What a very well made looking thing that is. I'd give it space on the shelf, lovely tag strip hard wired construction.
So does the bloody thing hum like the OP stated it did or was he just looking to send it back at no cost to him.?
Doesn't look bad for a second hand amp does it?Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917
Looks pretty good to me, mind you we havent heard the full report from Anthony yet.
No -the OP shipped the amp to Anthony at his own expense so that it can be fixed and sold for charity.Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917
Hi All,
Well, this amp has sat on my bench now for a good few hours without an issue.
There is currently no objectional hum,in fact, it is very quiet, even on my bench' which usualy amplifies mechanical hum due to it being hollow beneath!
As to the original fault, i am now quite sure that the issues experienced by the OP where genuine, but were down not to any design, or build issue, but output valve failier, posibly due to transit damage or, posibly due to this paticular set of output valves not being able to withstand the high'ish HT voltages etc.
Either way, my own feelings after having inspected, and tested this amplifier are mixed between admiration for the guy who built it, and sadness for both he, and the OP, due to the whole sorry situation.:(
The more i look at this amp, the harder it is [for me] to understand how the guy made any money from making it! Having been involved in this industry for over 20 years now, i am fully aware of how much time and effort it takes to build something like this, also' the costs involved in sourcing all the parts etc.
Its not the most attractive looking amp out there, [IMHO] but then, i imagine looks were secondary, its all about whats inside on this occasion.
Over the next few days, i am going to further test, it, and also' try and sort out as best i can the issues to the casework, then, once i am happy with it, i will inform Marco, and then he can set the ball rolling as far as getting it Auctioned off to the next lucky owner! :)
Anthony,TD...
Good work Anthony. I was also impressed with your simple but detailed description of testing the amp, so that others of a less technical bent could understand what's involved and what you have done.
:thumbsup:
It is a sad situation routed in communication issues rather than anything underhand. Probably both sides had their role to play in Communication Breakdown, does it play Led Zep well?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyTD
Nice looking amp. How much does it weigh in KG?
S.
so that others of a less technical bent
Thats me that is :)
I forgot to mention that it also has dual mono HT supplies, [shared mains transformer windings] with a decent pair of Chokes situated inside the chassis! [see picks]Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebottle
This amp is heavy, not having done a proper weighing yet, i would guess its in excess of 40kg!Quote:
Originally Posted by southall-1998
I agree Clive,
I am sure it will play Led Zep just fine!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive
So, the guy had a perfectly good amplifier all the time.
Ain't it great when humans manage to sod up a simple thing like talking to each other. Belligerence?, intransigence? Who really knows? Still, it looks like someone will get a bargain unless the bidding gets a little enthusiastic.
:eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
I was worried all along about John Woods reputation , Forums can be ruinous for some people , As I mentioned in the thread earlier I heard one of these in a high end / cost / quality system and it sounded very good :)
He should have stuck to his guns and refused to ship, insisting on it being picked up. Unfortunately valve amps can fail, or as in this case valves, plus shipping them is fraught with problems. Access to someone to help diagnose problems is useful too. Shipping solid state amps is mostly so much easier which avoids pretty much all of what happened here. Maybe valves are not for everyone. :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Al
Very true. Big valve amps without original factory packaging don't travel well.
Agreed. I've shipped a few, they need some very serious double boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by struth
To refresh people memories, this Amp as good as it may be was not the one that was ordered in the first place from John Wood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Steadman
Therefore, as a customer, if you receive the wrong good (damaged or not), you have the right to claim and get the item ordered or a refund. It is definitely not the customer fault. Is it?
Hi,
I have just read the whole of this tale and would have misgivings bidding for the amp, the owner should just keep it and enjoy it, I think it unfair that anyone would take advantage of the situation purely to gain a cheap amp.
I know the owner has said to auction the amp but I feel the money should go to him and not to charity, he can then do with the money what he feels right at the time.
Pride and and stubbornness can be fickle.
Mike.
Yeah, no-one bid :D
Problem number 1 is that if he get's the money from the sale of the item then he can't persue his court claim which he strongly believes in (else he would be getting twice the money... and it would possibly be fraudulent?).
My personal opinion (or legal guess) is that he can't pursue the money if he decides to give it away to charity either - he can only claim for actual loss and giving something to charity is a choice, not a loss. His small claims court depends entirely on the amplifier being given back to John Wood and therefore the baliffs weren't entitled to do anything either IMO - they weren't court baliffs by the sound of things, only privately hired ones who won't care about these things, just charge their fees and do whatever you say. I can't imagine he'd be allowed by the court to keep both the amp AND claim the money but perhaps I'm wrong?
Aside from that, assuming he's given up on pursuing the case, it's really it's up to the owner of the amp who says he wants the money to go to charity... I can't imagine now though it will look that good if he changes his mind and asks for the money, nor will some people be happy if they bid thinking that at least it's for a good cause, only to find it's not..
Sam,
You are totally wrong I'm afraid, the OP has a county court judgement that requires the seller to refund his money. There was no mention in the judgement of the goods being returned, so he is entitled to dispose of them as he sees fit. BTW All bailiffs are private licensed individuals, as are High Court Sheriffs, they are however officers of the court.
This may be a great amp, but the court has judged that it is not "Fut for purpose" as ordered. A really sad situation, it just goes to show you you shoul always collect or have thesecthings delivered and check the out before accepting them. It also shows the danger of items that seem to be great value for money, 'cos this can mean the seller has not enough leeway to provide back up without making a loss.
I've just read this through and what a sorry story it is...
I think the overriding fact is that the amp delivered was not what the buyer ordered... The buyer ordered a newly built amp (as indicated in his email to the seller which stated "please build and supply one integrated valve amplifier") however the buyer actually received a 'previously owned' amp and on that premise alone I believe the buyer has a right to a refund... never mind that it had a fault even though it turned out to just be bad valves
Even if I wanted another amp I definitely won't be bidding as I think the buyer should be refunded and return the amp to the seller...
Just my 2p worth of course ;)
Has that been shown to be true? That this was secondhand? Or was it one which was previously made but not delivered or something like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninanina
Totally wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulStewart
Have we had the judgement posted up? I haven't been through the whole thread so it is a genuine question.
I guess there is a danger in arguing without the absolute facts in front of us, and that also discounts the statements of those directly involved who obviously have their own interests and beliefs colouring their views.
Baliffs are baliffs. They are only officers of the court if the court has instructed them to act. I'm not sure that is the case here is it? Might be, but I got the impression not. My boss is pursuing someone for unpaid invoices, has been to mediation meetings via small claims courts and had judgments against the guy... but all action he's taken to chase the money has had to have been private, not instructed by the court, and that for more money than at stake here (yet still under the small claims threshold). I find that when I read people talking about small claims and what they think the judgement has been etc etc, many people make wrongful assumptions because they are understandably new to the whole process.
Also I think people get mightily confused between civil law and criminal law - to most people the "law is the law". Civil matters are quite different and even sticking to the terms of a judgement isn't necessary if the situation is resolved via compromise so that people are satisfied, it's called settlement. That could have happened long long long ago if it weren't for the protagonist's attitudes..
How the hell "oh, this hasn't got a remote like I asked!" and some damaged-in-transit valves got to this stage blows my mind!
One thing I am sure of from reading some of this is that BOTH the people involved have only themselves to blame ! Such idiots in my humble opinion - pride and stubborness can make people look supremely stupid.
Quite so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Advent
From the start I thought we were getting half a story and nothing I have read since has convinced me that I have seen enough to condemn either party more than the other. The power to communicate is what got humans to where we are but clearly, we are going backwards if this is an example.
Guys, now that the amp has been fully assessed, and fixed, it will indeed (in due course) be getting auctioned, with the proceeds from that donated to charity. That arrangement was agreed between the seller and I some time back.
Therefore, I don't wish to regurgitate the argument of 'who's to blame' for this incident, and for the discussion, in that respect, to go round and round in circles, so I think it's time to close this one now, pending an announcement in due course as to how the auction will be conducted and when it will take place.
Marco.
I'd suggest those commenting on this situation read the entire thread before doing so.
But I am feeling charitable so here is a précis
The matter has been to court three times, including the High Court. All three times the Court found in favour of the plaintiff.
The Plaintiff is owed a full refund of what he paid plus costs. That was the High Court decision, based on the evidence presented by both sides.
Settlement or recovery, despite a High Court writ, have proven impossible.
The plaintiff is fed up of the whole issue and wants the amp gone. He has agreed it will be fixed and sold for charity. He will remain out of pocket.