CD transports - do they matter?

Hi Keith,

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I don't see hi-res replacing my vinyl, I just see it as another alternative, I have quite a few cd's and I would like to get the most out of them, if ripping and streaming offers a small improvement I feel that would be worthwhile

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I completely agree - it is just another alternative and that's exactly how I intend to treat it. I have also heard more than a small improvement with ripping and streaming compared to playing CDs through even the best CDP, providing a high quality DAC is used. "High quality", though, meaning 'musical sounding' as I detailed before.

That's where NOS DACs come into their own, IMO. 24-bit may have more resolution, tick more hi-fi boxes, or whatever, but for sheer musical communication, realism, and accurate tonality I've not heard anything to compete with 16-bit Philips TDA1541 chips when implemented correctly. Modern DACs in comparison sound cold and clinical and thin.

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re hi-res I just hope music companies release their original digital masters, and that the whole thing doesn't end up in another format war.

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Same here!

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Re the data transfer everyone I have spoken to believes a very low jitter signal is key and then obviously a superb DAC. As soon as my new PC arrives I will post my thoughts...

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Please do :)

I also completely agree that a very low jitter signal with a superb DAC is the way to go. What I've found so far with many computer audio set-ups is the DACs being used are of dubious quality. The streaming bit is fantastic but then the signal is fed through some awful Burr Brown, AKM, or whatever (sorry I don't like them) and up-sampled to buggery resulting in just the type of artificial processed sound which I referred to earlier.

The key for me with streaming is to embrace old and new technologies to the greatest effect - that is unless the high definition formats Tony is referring to really do deliver the goods. If that's the case then I will gladly retire my Sony DAS-R1 for good, but as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out... All will be revealed I'm sure in due course!

Hans,

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live FM radio can be superb ( better than Vinyl )

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You are absolutely 100% correct! I've forgotten just how good live analogue FM broadcasts can be on a good tuner fed by a decent aerial as I no longer have a tuner. Perhaps the experience is not so good these days as broadcast signal quality isn't what it used to be but I have fond memories of listening to live concerts on BBC Radio 3 with a Naim NAT-01 and Ron Smith. The sound was truly fantastic such that you felt you could almost reach out and touch the performers.

You're right, live FM radio broadcasts done properly is as good as it gets. If these new high-res formats get anywhere near that then there will indeed be some cause for celebration! :)

Time will tell...

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

You are absolutely 100% correct! I've forgotten just how good live analogue FM broadcasts can be on a good tuner fed by a decent aerial as I no longer have a tuner. Perhaps the experience is not so good these days as broadcast signal quality isn't what it used to be but I have fond memories of listening to live concerts on BBC Radio 3 with a Naim NAT-01 and Ron Smith. The sound was truly fantastic such that you felt you could almost reach out and touch the performers.

You're right live FM radio broadcasts done properly is as good as it gets. If these new high-res formats get anywhere near that then there will indeed be some cause for celebration! :)

Time will tell...

Marco.

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There was quite a famous occasion ( in the sense that it was later mentioned in the HiFi press ) in the early 80s when a live Mahler symphony was later repeated as a digital recording and it sounded even better !!
The reason was that the original broadcast had been limited in its dynamic range

Yes the broadcast has to be spot-on with minimal pissing around of the signal, which is the case I believe with any music source.

Marco.

Marco,

The technology is out there now, a few companies are on the case and producing some superb results.
There will be NO format war, high definition data is just that, be it 96khz/24bit or 192khz/32bit, as long as your dac (the huge majority of dac produced in the last 8 years have this ability) can decode pcm/bit-stream, everyone can access it, not just the high end community.
Regardless of your thoughts, a properly impliment high def system easily trounces vinyl in every department by a large margin.
Now before you engage in the usual Marco 'shields up' full defensive rhetoric repost lol let me finish please!
People will not give up vinyl or cd's, the pleasure of using vinyl et al is and still will be there for thousands of people. A good majority of people have large collections on Vinyl and CD (my own collection while not in the realms of a few that post here, is a modest 3500 or so). Your cdp can act as a transport for your cd collection as well as your gateway to true high res as well. Not really a losing situation
A lot of classic recordings are analogue is nature, therefore a lot of these will not be available in true high res format (I suspect a few studios will have a go at whacking them through a top flight a to d and try squeezing yet more out of them!)
However this is not true nature of a high resolution recording, lots of pro's and cons on the music choice side I will not disagree.
As for the philips dac chip a lot here are fond of, the Zanden is the ultimate expression of this highly regarded dac-chip. I am surprised you did not pick this up Marco.
There is no need to try and justify to you, the format will take off as soon as people hear it correctly impliment and set up coupled with even modest equipment it can bring quality high end sounds to everyone.(which is not too long away now)

Tony,

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Now before you engage in the usual Marco 'shields up' full defensive rhetoric repost lol let me finish please!

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LOL. There's no such thing likely - nor has ever any existed. I champion what I believe in and what I think sounds good and offers excellent value for money. It's as simple as that. Others can disagree if they wish, that's just fine - everyone is entitled to an opinion.

However, no offence, but it will take a little more than you saying:

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Regardless of your thoughts, a properly impliment high def system easily trounces vinyl in every department by a large margin.

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before I accept it and believe it. I need to hear and judge things with my own ears first as ultimately they are the final arbiter of what gets used in my system.

Perhaps we could start the ball rolling by you outlining exactly how you think this "high def system" "trounces vinyl in every department by a large margin"? :)

And forget about hi-fi niceties - I'm referring to REAL improvements; stuff that transforms recorded music into a tangible, emotional, almost live experience, which is for me what good vinyl does over CD. If you start going on about micro and macro detail, frequency response, stereo depth or whatever I'll fall asleep ;)

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As for the philips dac chip a lot here are fond of, the Zanden is the ultimate expression of this highly regarded dac-chip. I am surprised you did not pick this up Marco.

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Well first of all I would not dream of spending that amount of money on any piece of hi-fi equipment, that's just not where my head is at these days. It's about maximum sound-per-pound and using my experience to achieve that. Almost every component I use now reflects that methodology.

Secondly, what makes you say the Zanden is the "ultimate expression" of the TDA1541 - because it's the most expensive? Have you heard every other player on the market past and present which uses that chip in order to come to that conclusion? Have you heard a DAS-R1, for example, especially an updated and modified one?

I've not heard the Zanden so I can't comment but some trusted ears I know have and according to them it's good but a bit laid back sounding compared to what I'm used to with the Sony. Now I was a bit shocked to hear that, and trust me these people have lots of experience with hi-fi and know a good sound when they hear one. They gave their reasons why they were a bit disappointed in the Zanden and I understand where they're coming from. However, as always I will reserve judgement until if or when I hear one myself. One thing for sure, it looks bloody amazing!

Marco.

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Originally Posted by Marco

Perhaps the experience is not so good these days as broadcast signal quality isn't what it used to be but I have fond memories of listening to live concerts on BBC Radio 3 with a Naim NAT-01 and Ron Smith.....

You're right live FM radio broadcasts done properly is as good as it gets. If these new high-res formats get anywhere near that then there will indeed be some cause for celebration! :)

Time will tell...

Marco.

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Just a heads up again really, if anyone is interested Ron Smith is still producing aerials, as I've said in another thread.

Recently got myself a Galaxie 17 (whilst the going is good). Still coming to terms with how good it makes my Linn Kremlin sound. In fact at the moment there are some amazing bargain tuners to be had...and some amazing music being broadcast.

I agree, Steve. How do you feel the sound quality of the broadcasts is these days compared to say when the Kremlin was launched - have you owned it that long?

Incidentally, I rate the Kremlin as one of the finest solid-state analogue tuners ever made.

Marco.

I can't comment on the quality of broadcasts that far back, I only bought the Kremlin 3, or was it 4?, years ago. ( Care of Midland Audio Exchange)

All I can say is that I have listened to more radio in the last couple of weeks than I ever have.
For instance, I was waiting for my missus to finish some work this afternoon, so was just flicking through radio channels.

Caught the start of a programme of Great Voices of Bulgaria which was from the Bath Festival on Radio 3. The quality was astonishing..

..live recordings from what sounded like a large church or Cathedral (or would Bath have a Minster? I dunno). Great performances..
But the thing is, I wouldn't have bothered normally...its just that the quality of the broadcast captured the atmosphere you get in those places..all echoey and some reverb in the air. In the end, I learnt something about a different kind of music.
Job done then.

Interesting. Sounds like you had a good session :smoking:

Radio is (and always has) been a great source for discovering new music. If you ignore sound quality DAB is great for that purpose - the amount of different stations available is incredible.

I used to enjoy listening to BBC Radio 6 as there was always some interesting music on there. In the end however the shocking (bright and thin) sound quality did my head in and I sold the DAB tuner and bought some LPs with the proceeds! :)

I'd like to get a Magnum Dynalab or perhaps a good Leak Troughline with decoder at some point, providing of course that analogue radio is still available then.

Marco.

My feeling is that FM radio will be around for a long long time.
DAB hasn't taken off. The quality is dubious, and coverage poor.
Majority of car radios continue to be FM, and few have the DAB option.

Think the broadcasting authorities were wildly optimistic when they first set out target dates..and these were based on a ground swell of acceptance that hasn't happened.

I also understand that the sampling quality is little better than mp3.

Hence..thats why I got a Ron Smith aerial whilst Ron is still making them. For a while there I was looking at DAB.
Now getting 58 dbuv from the Galaxie in the loft, compared with 40 from the roof mounted aerials I also have. The difference is astonishing. Mind you..its a big old bugger.

By the way, Infidelity in Kingston have a Kremlin selling for £650. Not bad for something that used to be nearly 4 times that.

Steve