Goldpoint SA4M-47 passive 'preamp' winging its way to Marco Towers...

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Originally Posted by Marco

Hi Tom,



Indeed, but mine (and Jo's) is somewhat of a departure from any Croft that's sold now! ;)

It's been heavily modified, with all sorts of tasty bits inside, not least of which are the bigger octal-type valves (6SL7s), which make the ECC83s (and the like) used in current Croft preamps sound positively limp and anaemic... As such, I'd quite happily put it up against other valve preamps on the market at any price :)

Marco.

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Indeed... The current pre's are good but once you have dipped in to what can be done with the older Octal valves there is no going back.

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...DSC00597_2.jpg

Also, my pre should be back with me on Monday, it's had another upgrade to 6SN7's in the line stage keeping 6SL7's in the phono. So now it uses 3 6SN7's and 6SL7's whilst utilising the dual regulation. Should be very interesting. :) - I'll bring it over, Marco for a listen very soon :)

Sounds very interesting, matey. Look forward to that! :)

Marco.

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Originally Posted by The Black Adder

Indeed... The current pre's are good but once you have dipped in to what can be done with the older Octal valves there is no going back.

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...DSC00597_2.jpg

Also, my pre should be back with me on Monday, it's had another upgrade to 6SN7's in the line stage keeping 6SL7's in the phono. So now it uses 3 6SN7's and 6SL7's whilst utilising the dual regulation. Should be very interesting. :) - I'll bring it over, Marco for a listen very soon :)

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Would love to hear that Jo!:)

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Originally Posted by The Black Adder

Those were my findings too, Jim. It's very easy to get hooked on the airiness and the detail retrieval. I certainly did and lived with it for a month or so. But one day, I put an album on (to which I had never played with the passive) and because I wasn't expecting the difference I just couldn't get it out of my head how I was used to hearing it. I switched it back to the active and everything slotted together.

This is something Marco needs to figure out between the Goldpoint and the Croft.

I've always said that in my experience, they are different, not worse or better... it's down to taste and your expectance to hear what is correct, it just takes time to figure it out.

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I've found it is easy to get hooked on the lack of distortion and glare that adding another pointless gain stage to the system causes. All passives are not created equal and I did find a lac of balls - that is a lack of impact on percussion and a lack of drive in the bass - with the Tisbury, but not with the NVA I currently use. If you mainly listen to vinyl it is almost a non-issue but with a digital source the improvement is not subtle. Correct matching to the power amp also needs to be considered, but I have tried more than half a dozen power amps now, all with good results. IME adding an extra gain stage after a DAC or CD player is the main reason for dissatisfaction with digital playback.

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Originally Posted by Marco

The Goldpoint, especially now since the mod Duncan has carried out, has levelled the playing field, in terms of what the Tisbury was lacking, whilst having all the 'balls'/drive/punch of the Croft, so it really is quite something! :)

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How can something passive have balls, drive & punch?
All a passive anything can do is subtract from the signal.

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Originally Posted by Macca

I've found it is easy to get hooked on the lack of distortion and glare that adding another pointless gain stage to the system causes. All passives are not created equal and I did find a lac of balls - that is a lack of impact on percussion and a lack of drive in the bass - with the Tisbury, but not with the NVA I currently use. If you mainly listen to vinyl it is almost a non-issue but with a digital source the improvement is not subtle. Correct matching to the power amp also needs to be considered, but I have tried more than half a dozen power amps now, all with good results. IME adding an extra gain stage after a DAC or CD player is the main reason for dissatisfaction with digital playback.

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Indeed, but you could say that about active gain stages too. :) I don't know enough about active pre's in how they are designed and constructed, I leave that up to guys like Nick, Glenn and Anthony to name a few. But I'd say that with either choice, the design and synergy with the source, amp and speakers plays a big part.

Good, well designed passive pre's are simply a different flavor to actives... no better, no worse and 'can' have a knack of confusingly taking the middle ground.

Very true but if you take Marco's Croft pre - and if that was a commercial item it would be in the region of £10K to £15K new - and it is not clear cut as to whether it is better than the Goldpoint passive which is only £600 new - it puts a different perspective on it.

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Originally Posted by Stratmangler

How can something passive have balls, drive & punch?
All a passive anything can do is subtract from the signal.

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The balls, drive and punch are a function of the recording, the power amp and the speakers. The passive is not adding but not taking (much) away either. The active will add glare and distortion - although having heard Marco's Croft in a couple of systems it doesn't add much if any crap to the signal. But it is a very expensive, bespoke bit of kit.

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Originally Posted by Macca

The balls, drive and punch are a function of the recording, the power amp and the speakers. The passive is not adding but not taking (much) away either. The active will add glare and distortion - although having heard Marco's Croft in a couple of systems it doesn't add much if any crap to the signal. But it is a very expensive, bespoke bit of kit.

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I understand fully what was intended to be conveyed.
That the passive doesn't take much away from the signal is a given, but it wasn't put that way. The way things were put was arse about face, and that leads to fanciful ideas such as cables having sonic signatures.
It isn't a given that active preamps add glare - it depends on how well designed they are. I've heard a few that pass muster, and Marco's is one of them.

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Originally Posted by Macca

Very true but if you take Marco's Croft pre - and if that was a commercial item it would be in the region of £10K to £15K new - and it is not clear cut as to whether it is better than the Goldpoint passive which is only £600 new - it puts a different perspective on it.

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15 k...thats a lot of balls:lol: my car didnt cost that.