Indeed, Andrew. No doubt the stock platter can be tweaked with some success, but quite frankly there's no comparison between it and the MN one, as the sonic improvements you describe with Mike's platter are FAR from subtle! :)
Marco.
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Indeed, Andrew. No doubt the stock platter can be tweaked with some success, but quite frankly there's no comparison between it and the MN one, as the sonic improvements you describe with Mike's platter are FAR from subtle! :)
Marco.
Martin, my apologies without reservations, if I offended through my perception of your MN platter, I now understand what has happened and it was brave of you to trail blaze with the proto type platter. No doubt if wasn't any good back it would have gone to Sydney :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinT
The trouble with the written word from afar is there is no face to face or body language in play and therefore the written word, if not skillfully used, can be misconstrued at worst as an attack or as a point of dismissal... the widgets available here go part of the way to convey a writers thoughts at the time of writing, ie: :):) for me at this moment and previously :)
I don't want to be misunderstood regarding my stance on the MN platter, its merely a visual thing for me and even that is flawed as I have yet to actually see and touched one. What I don't negate is the platters performance.
The stock platter I use was raised a fraction, possibly by 2mm, when I installed the MN bearing and I'm given to understand that this is normal.
Your reviews are good and worthy and don't have the taint of possible advertising revenue loss should your review be a negative one, I believe it does happen?
Ron :cocktail:
I don't doubt for one minute what you say is not correct, I'm just going through a, 'what if I do this or that' stage at the moment. I still wish Mike would come up with a sub and outer platter such as Thorens, Linn and so on. The inner platter would have to be larger to accommodate the rotars underneath, and the outer would provide some form of fly wheel effect (not necessarily required with a DD such as my 1210) but to me it would be visually more apealing... just think of all the fun I could have polishing the outer rim to a mirror finish as per my LP12 :eyebrows::rolleyes::lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
Marco, I'm befuddled here mate, do you not have a MN strengthening plate in conjunction with your MN copper platter, if this is the case then why not?:scratch:
Off to do a bit of metal bashing (not the heavy stuff)
Ron:hmm:
Hi Ron,
I didn't go for the base plate because I wanted to assess its effect in isolation, over and above the effect of the MN platter, so if people ask me what it does, I can say :)
I'll do the comparison tomorrow at Martin's when we swap T/Ts, using the same MN platter, which should be interesting.
If the base plate makes a noticeable improvement, I'll order one from Mike. Martin will also get the chance to ascertain whether the copper top plate on my platter makes a worthwhile sonic improvement.
Lots of Techy and T/T shenanigans tomorrow, so it should be fun! :cool:
Marco.
This is one write up I can't wait to read. It would be good if both you and Martin did seperate reviews without recourse to the other's notes and impressions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
I paid a 'sticky beek' visit to the holistic otherworld today without the aide of a medium :lol: and the boss man was mightly pleased that Hi Fi World had given an enthusiastic okay to the TS bearing and PSU. See FEB 2011 page 45 where DP replied to Michael Moore's letter. I wonder if that was THE Michael Moore who had made searching films of the George W Bush administration years and was now turning his attention towards audiophilia? By the way what happened to the holistic approach? :scratch:
Ron :confused:
The one consideration I have to be aware of in maching the platter is the fact that some people (like Marco) do not have my Bearing Base Plate. (which raises the whole assembly up by 6mm). Thus there is a compromise between providing a platter to suit those who do not currently have a Bearing Base Plate, and those who may buy one later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
If I make the peripheral skirt to deep, then for those who have not fitted my Bearing Base Plate; the skirt will fowl on the three raised posts (3.5mm high) which sit around the bottom lip of the chassis, and which serve to locate the large black cover (which cannot be used with my Platters anyhow!).
I could make the skirt even deeper, but this would require that the three locating posts be removed. I do try to get as close as possible to the ideal, but there will always be people who seem to confuse excellent sonic improvements with sexy looks, which frankly totally confounds me!!
I am striving to provide an upgrade path which is viable for the average person who does not have the 'readies' to procure the whole set of upgrades at the one time, as some people are able to do! Rather to progessively upgrade from Bearing and or Base plate to platter to copper arm board.
As Martin advises, his platter was one of the earlier ones where I was testing the range over which I could savely set the machining parrameters.
I have now fixed on a set of dimensions which I believe will suit most circumstances.
Mick, it was probably me that triggered your response about looks and function and its a fair point mate. But some of us have our systems, including record player, in our living area space we share with wifey the majority of whom would wishfully want you to park your gear in the car port or the sanctity of a man's shed :eek: so somewhere along the way, for domestic harmony's sake the look of equipment has to be considered, and I am well aware of the prob this gives you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_New
I mean MartinT has your proto type platter and it serves him well but in his drive way he has a beaut looking BMW and would probably not be happy driving a ute :lol: Good looks and function can go together I think so I urge you not to be confounded by someone who likes the two to go together. Don't read me wrong here I AM NOT KNOCKING YOUR PLATTER as testimony from others here confirms that its a goody and I believe them and I myself am considering the whole package. A two part platter, I believe, does prevent ringing if done properly and more than likely does away with the need for the outer rubber band that is used? It gives me cause for mirth that there are some who are very voluable about their dislike of 'rubber band' drive fruit box turntables yet the Tekko sits in a vulcanised rubber bonsai tray which, at a later day, can have a rubber band around the platter. I mean whats wrong with rubber, it helps keep unwanted pregnancy in check:rolleyes:;):)
Respect for your engineering skills, buy ya a beer when I'm in Sydney next :glug:
Ron
Just a few quick questions! The sorbothane "bath" is nearing completion. I've produced a paper prototype ready to be fabricated in 3mm homocopolymer next week! The whole idea of the "bath" is to coat the innards of the 1210 with a 2-3mm layer of sorbothane to stop vibration getting to the PCB. Now this may prove difficult for those of us who have a MN bearing, baseplate etc but thats another weeks problem :eyebrows:. I got round to thinking that if i'm going to "carpet" the innards of the 1210 in sorbothane it also gives me an ideal chance to include a couple of very thin layers of adhesive aluminium in there as well to try and increase the protection of RFI & MFI, the sorbothane obviously hopefully vibration. My thoughts being to have one layer of aluminium on the underside of the sorbothane and then another layer ontop. Then i got round to thinking if you have the MN platter you have a massive rotating platter protecting the PCB to some extent against RFI and MFI. Then this got me wondering what type of metal (alloy) the 1210's PCB is mounted onto:scratch: Can anyone answer this question for me:scratch:
I think the sorbothane will come in 2 flavours. One for the stock 1210 and then one for the 1210's which have various MN modifications. The "footprint" of the sorbothane carpet will be radically different bewteen the two machines.
Secondly, and this is a question for Mike New, Mike, how much space is left in the bearing pit once your bearing is installed:scratch: I was wondering if we could get a small piece of sorbothane in there to minimise vibration getting to the bearing?? In your opinion do you think its worth doing :scratch:
Marco and I performed the comparison yesterday: his production MN copper/aluminium composite platter versus my prototype aluminium/brass insert platter on my turntable. The only other variable is that we used Marco's Blue Horizon mat with his platter and my Achromat with my platter (my platter has Vaseline on its surface and we thought it best to keep to the mats best optimised to the platters).Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
One observation: Mike New's production platter sits a little lower compared with mine, giving my arm some welcome vertical travel to accommodate different cartridges. This wasn't a problem for the Dynavector 20X2L used for testing.
The summary is short and sweet: Marco, Hugo and I struggled to hear a difference and could not reliably tell the platters apart. To all intents and purposes, they sounded so close to each other that the difference was immaterial.
Andrew:Quote:
Originally Posted by REXTON
It is my judgment that any layer (2-3mm) of sorbothane or silicone inside the cast alluminium chassis will not contribute greatly to any vibration damping, since the effective stiffness of the casting although low, would overcome any damping afforded by just 2-3 mm of material, you would require a great deal more.
Before perusing alternatives, I will respond to you question about the bearing.
There is about 1.5mm clearance at the bottom of my bearing.
I do however think that perhaps you are approaching the project from the wrong justification point of view. Any affect of vibration on the PCB will be absolutely minimal, it is a reasonably stiff well assembled component, with few capacitors which could be affected; mainly digital chips and resistors. What we should be considering is the affects of the acoustic feedback from the listening environment and the internal scrambling of the acoustics at the cartridge; due to less that ideal dampening of the chassis system as a whole.
My Bearing Base Plate does a lot to improve on the latter, however consideration of the following should further improve the acoustic value of my upgrades.
Rather, what we should be looking at doing, is to actually bond, or form a sorbothane blanket, between the alluminium chassis and the heavy cast composite centre-piece. Which is what I have just recently done on my new MK6. This absolutely binds the two components together as a rigid but compliant structure. Which then sits in the excellently designed and well fitting rubber Base.
This approach was suggested by Yves in Canada about 7months ago, I believe he used a silicone compound and used the very thin “cling wrap” in order to prevent the silicone from adhering to the chassis. Thus forming a separate but accurately matching blanket between the two. If you are reading this Yves you might respond and include your images again.
The object of the centre-piece, I believe, was to effect a dampening and stiffening of the chassis. However, in fact the centre-piece is not a particularly good fit/match to the alluminium chassis and therefore seems to do nothing in performing its intended function.
For those folks who have purchased my Bearing Base Plate, and have therefore drilled clearance holes into the centre-piece for the nuts, then you could take this path to the final ultimate upgrade (at little cost) by bonding the chassis and centre-piece together as a whole, as I have done.
Doing so does not detract from access to the wiring. However it does preclude easy access to the three nuts, which secure the arm board.
Especially if you are still using the original arm assembly. For this reason I have produced a tapered nut which permanently fits into the three tapered holes from underneath. This allows the very easy and convenient removal of the arm from the top of the unit if you are using a replacement arm and board.
I can provide additional info/advice for those who are interested.