Mistracking and VTA

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Originally Posted by NRG

Really!? I find that rather hard to believe.....the release agent thing I went through in the eighties, there was a cleaning kit you could buy to clean the stuff out....no matter how many times I used it the sound didn't change or actually got worse! There where little stickers you could apply to the outside of the album cover labeled 0-9 to indicate how many times you had cleaned a particular record...what a load of b.....s

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1, Play a few seconds of a favourite tune, then play the same thing again - you *may* hear a difference in the treble, the second listening a little sweeter. i don't have the references, but this aspect was done to death in the eighties, when higher tracking weights of up to 2 grammes came back into fashion.. If you can't hear a difference, don't worry, it's probably the brain/imagination getting in the way and making up differences;)


The Hunt P2 was the kit you refer to. Halocarbon 113 I think it was (a chemist client analysed it) and a blue oily substance on top to prevent evaporation. Jimmy introduced me to it and I found it livened up the sound no end, but dramatically increased surface noise. Records thus treated reverted to their previous state after a short while I found and it was such a pain to use.

There was another disc-washing system marketed by "Cantorion" back in the late eighties/early nineties, which was a bit more sophisticated and longer lasting, but memories are very vague.

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Originally Posted by DSJR

1, Play a few seconds of a favourite tune, then play the same thing again - you *may* hear a difference in the treble, the second listening a little sweeter. i don't have the references, but this aspect was done to death in the eighties, when higher tracking weights of up to 2 grammes came back into fashion.. If you can't hear a difference, don't worry, it's probably the brain/imagination getting in the way and making up differences;)

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Tried it this morning, can't here a difference so will file that one in the bin! :lolsign:

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The Hunt P2 was the kit you refer to. Halocarbon 113 I think it was (a chemist client analysed it) and a blue oily substance on top to prevent evaporation. Jimmy introduced me to it and I found it livened up the sound no end, but dramatically increased surface noise. Records thus treated reverted to their previous state after a short while I found and it was such a pain to use.

There was another disc-washing system marketed by "Cantorion" back in the late eighties/early nineties, which was a bit more sophisticated and longer lasting, but memories are very vague.

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Yes, thats the stuff, I still have some pads somewhere but the fluid is all gone. Agreed a right pain to use and the blue oily stuff was a pain if you got it on the pad and the record :doh:

True Audiophile talk gentlemen,

I am impressed.

By the way, I wonder if the bloated bass in a 180 gm record is what many like-so why change. The Linn Demo room in one of the South London shows in the 80s were using Isobariks and Naim amps. The bass did not have a shape to it-contour I mean and was truly bloated-overhung. To be fair anyone coming from that experience of a seemingly big sound to a sound when bass is tightly controlled-would be disappointed. As often such a change can be perceived as 'boring'.


Varun

I have just ploughed through this whole thread, and feel the need for all those pills recommended by our resident pharmacist, (Hifi) Dave.

Actually, I do take the last one he mentioned, but only when the temperature is above 20 degrees. Otherwise I get overhang in the loo.

Although there's no doubt that all these pearls of wisdom are relevant regarding arm/cart. settings, I've found that record quality (as CD quality and everything else) varies to such a degree that fiddling around every five minutes with minute adjustments would be pointless. I have an SME 5 with various adjustments, but to do other than check the parameters every six months or so would be irksome.

Likewise with stylus cleaning, I've always used the electronic thingy (AT something or other) , a small paint brush and a touch of alcohol now and again (for the stylus!) Never had a problem with any cart. I've owned, though care should be exercised regarding transmission of fluid up the cantilever. I've found that my Koetsu needs less cleaning than my previous Lyras, but I suspect the higher playing weight may have something to do with that.

VARUN, I'm intrigued that you bought 509s, and (I infer) moved on to something else. Having 509s, WHAT could I move on to? With Naim it was easy; follow the increasingly expensive road to Salisbury. Where does one go with valves of E.A.R. quality apart from diversifying into other thermionic forms?

There was a long, long, thread on Pink Fish recently on stylus cleaning; so many diverse opinions and no clear cut results; only solutions, which I must try some time.

You're becoming a prolific thread-setter, VARUN. Congratulations and pass the pills.

Mike,
I'm no pharmacist, I just take the bloody pills plus a few more and suffer the consequences.....:(

After 509's, you could always look out for s/h 549's. We sold quite a few sets of those back in the 80's and I wonder why TDP has stopped making them.:scratch:

Hello Mike,

Like you I do not fiddle with every record I play-but have 2 approximate settings at any given time- one for 180gm+ one for thinner. I have records which may well be quite a bit thicker than 180gms-such was the Tchaikovsky 5th conducted by Dorati on Mercury Living Presence. That record gave me a hard time-and made me tweak the the setting until I got it right. I am sure it has a lot to do with the pressing as well. Hence the THREAD.

As for 509s- as I said it is a long story but the EAR pre-amp 802 was not in the same league. I like them very much-but the Plinius is better. I greatly liked the sound of the 100 watt Class A Plinius but felt that it lacked the punch of 509s. To my suprise I had the same concerns about the 250 Class A plinius until I realized that the 509 has a lift in mid bass- very appealing but which masks the lack of depth of the lower end which SA250 has. Plenty more of definition.

The Plinius Class A philosophy of Peter Thompson was to place it half way between warm valves and edgy Krell type sound. And I would say it achieves it quite well.

Another reason was that I was having no end of trouble getting the 509's repaired.. in NZ and also obtaining valves. I had a box full of Mullards but half of them did not work.

And so on.

Varun

And Mike-

About threads-I will soon get bored and then you will not hear of me or from me. Good to have these discussions and greatly appreciate learned -even if Googled comments. By the way Google is a very good source of all sorts of info. All of us use it - I mean in my field.

Varun

From The Grave

Some serious thread creep here, but responding to the o/p: I think that mistracking and fine VTA adjustment are two separate things. In no way should VTA be used to bring a mistracking cartridge back in line; if it mistracks, there is a fundamental adjustment or alignment that is wrong and it's not likely to be VTA unless it is massively out.

Many things can cause mistracking: lateral alignment, overhang alignment, tracking force and incorrect bias are some of them. Also a broken or misaligned stylus or tonearm bearing stiction. You really need a test disc (like HFS69 or HSF75) in order to optimised everything and determine if tracking is adequate.

You can subsequently use fine VTA (better defined as SRA) adjustment for best sound, but don't go too far from the arm being parallel to the record surface.