Alternative platters ?

This has been an interesting lesson about forums and product launches.
Regrettably it is one that leaves me concluding that I prefer not to participate further for whilst I have appreciated the goodwill intended in offering assistance and evaluations, ultimately the process has been highly unsatisfactory - False expertise of some participants and sole reliance on their subjective opinions produces a meaningless fog.

This whole silly platter issue kicked off with assumptions about what mass would do to the Technics motor, and resulted in “hearing” effects which were based on expectations of how heavy something might be. The results contradict yet it appears we have two platters which are effectively identical in that regard; surely the simple use of some common or garden kitchen scales would have shown up and avoided the absurdity of the false assumptions regarding mass and inertia?
When developing new product, a methodology has to be invoked, else it is based merely on smoke and mirrors.
But we couldn’t even get to that point!
To me, then, it is utterly pointless even to attempt going further and offering actual…reliable…consistent and repeatable measurements.

Some feedback has been helpful - the tendency to follow a “single supplier” upgrade route is evident.
Funk’s new mk II platter, featuring our Strata technology (well, it does work) remains but will, however, be a custom fit to our new Sapphire thrust bearing now accordingly re-engineered.
Available from our usual outlets expect a special combined package price. See website for availability and details.

As for the arm, the outstanding results we have achieved with FXR on 1200/1210s, (evaluated blind as ever) means we are dropping modding Technics arms.
Custom carbon fibre armplates will be available for all arms.

I am sorry Richard that you have been caught in the middle of all this – I trust it won’t spoil your enjoyment of the forum (and no I haven’t forgotten about the Integral repair!!)


Arthur

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Originally Posted by FunkArt

This whole silly platter issue kicked off with assumptions about what mass would do to the Technics motor, and resulted in “hearing” effects which were based on expectations of how heavy something might be. The results contradict yet it appears we have two platters which are effectively identical in that regard; surely the simple use of some common or garden kitchen scales would have shown up and avoided the absurdity of the false assumptions regarding mass and inertia?
When developing new product, a methodology has to be invoked, else it is based merely on smoke and mirrors.
But we couldn’t even get to that point!
To me, then, it is utterly pointless even to attempt going further and offering actual…reliable…consistent and repeatable measurements.

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This demands a response. I don't know who you are directing this at, Arthur, but seeing as you are making accusations at members who evaluated your Strata platter, and I only know of two people who were doing so - one being myself - I am afraid I will have to reveal things that I was not going to speak of in open forum. So lets get some facts out there:

There was no 'assumptions about what mass would do' until after listening evaluations. I was certainly expecting great things but, out of the box, the platter didn't work. The other person who received a platter for evaluation also couldn't get it to work. Knowing this already, you reworked mine before sending it to me in order to ensure proper clearance of the bearing (which was indeed ok on mine). However, my one came with the sensor cog out of true, such that the motor made lots of squeaky noises on start-up and speed regulation was not good. I found that the cog was a tight fit but movable so I adjusted it myself on the basis that I would try to get the thing working rather than just return it to you. I adjusted it as best I could and was never totally happy with speed regulation (the motor still made some odd noises), although it was enough for me to form an opinion of the Strata's sound. I gave you that feedback. I postulated at the time that perhaps it was the weight of the platter and some remaining misalignment of the cog that caused the speed issues. In hindsight, it's more likely to have been the cog. I wrote all this to you, Arthur, and we reached no firm conclusion. I have the full PM and referred to it again to ensure that I'm being fair. You simply asked me to pack the platter up as you needed it back urgently. I did so immediately, but it remains in my office awaiting collection.

My methodology involves listening first and then trying to postulate reasons for what I'm hearing. I am an electronics engineer and not completely clueless when it comes to hi-fi components. I have given feedback on such a basis to several vendors here on AoS, and that feedback has been welcomed and sometimes even used in order to improve the products.

So, rather than now criticise the members that YOU asked to evaluate your product by denigrating their reputation, perhaps you need to recognise, as we did, the essential nature of pre-production items. You should also recognise that we kept quiet about the issues as we knew these were not final production samples. We were doing you a favour and, because you didn't like the feedback we gave you, you retaliated in a manner not becoming. What a pity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinT

(it may be solely the sensor cog that was causing my problems,

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One of the reasons I have resisted purchasing a Funk or MN platter is that they do not come with the motor magnet/sensor and I am ***t scared of getting it wrong. I came across a SL1210 setup article some time ago which clearly explained how critical this setup is to correct and stable motor speed. The edge of the "cog" needs to be exactly in line with the outer edge of the hole in the under surface of the platter. My Vantage platter did not need to alter the existing magnet/sensor setup at all. Maybe I'm just a big scaredy cat girl but reading these posts on unstable rotation and noises is a real put off.

Steve

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Originally Posted by worrasf

One of the reasons I have resisted purchasing a Funk or MN platter is that they do not come with the motor magnet/sensor and I am ***t scared of getting it wrong. I came across a SL1210 setup article some time ago which clearly explained how critical this setup is to correct and stable motor speed. The edge of the "cog" needs to be exactly in line with the outer edge of the hole in the under surface of the platter. My Vantage platter did not need to alter the existing magnet/sensor setup at all. Maybe I'm just a big scaredy cat girl but reading these posts on unstable rotation and noises is a real put off.

Steve

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If Martin can install it (etp platter) I am sure you (or anyone) can :)

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Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us

If Martin can install it (etp platter) I am sure you (or anyone) can :)

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Maybe I misread the post but i thought it was Martin who was having "issues" with rotation stability due to the sensor position?
"I adjusted it as best I could and was never totally happy with speed regulation (the motor still made some odd noises)"
I'm sure Martin will clarify.

Steve

I think you're getting your platters mixed up, Steve. The ETP platter's sensor cog is fine. You will, however, have to swap the magnet assembly over as with all aftermarket platters for the Technics. It's an easy job and you are fine aligning the trailing edge of the cog with the exact centre of the red-dot hole by eye. There is only a very small amount of play so you can't get it greatly wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinT

I think you're getting your platters mixed up, Steve. The ETP platter's sensor cog is fine. You will, however, have to swap the magnet assembly over as with all aftermarket platters for the Technics. It's an easy job and you are fine aligning the trailing edge of the cog with the exact centre of the red-dot hole by eye. There is only a very small amount of play so you can't get it greatly wrong.

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Ah ha! Many thanks for clarification Martin. That puts a different spin on it especially as I have an MN bearing.

Steve

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Originally Posted by worrasf

That puts a different spin on it

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I hope not!!

I've been very seriously thrown for a loop by this thread, baffled even at times. However, this still seems to be the definitive place to get info and try to figure out what's what with modded Techies; so, I'm going to "take my pills" sort through what's been said and try to make a decision on which way to go next.

If the ETP platter is the winner then hooray for me as I believe, in posts, I've drooled over the one with the brass inserts ever since Mike posted it. But, maybe the only way I can answer my own questions is to somehow try both the aluminum and ETP in which case you guys really haven't helped me at all. :lol:

In response to Al’s original question, this is my take on alternative platters.

It’s the platter off a tatty ProJect RPM 9 I purchased cheap off flea bay.

http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Project_Imag...latter_012.jpg

I had a local model maker knock up an adaptor and it fits perfect, it powered up first time and runs smooth.

The only tweak necessary was to give the brake about a quarter of a turn on the adjuster, this platter is 38mm thick Acrylic and weighs 3.5Kg which is approximately twice that of the stock Technics Platter.

There was a bit more to it than that really, see how I did it here: http://www.jkwynn.co.uk/Platter_HTML...er_Thumbs.html

Well that's the drive principle proven, I had better design a deck to put it in. :eyebrows: